Rome to Venice via Orvieto/Civita, Siena and Cinque Terra

Since you really do not have much time for anything in between, skip the car and use public transport. For that, Rome to Orvieto is a short train trip. Orvieto to Siena is another short trip to Chiusi, where you can catch a bus. Siena to the CT can be train all the way, or look at a bus to Florence and train to CT. Then train to venice. As mentioned, with only one night in Tuscany, you will not be exploring hill towns, and a few hours saved by rushing in a car from the CT to venice is not worth the added cost of a car and the drop off charge(not to mention the two hours or so spent dropping the car off at the Venice airport then getting into Venice)

We found Venezia to CT to be a 5+ hour trip, not 8-9. The problem for CT to Venezia seems to be departure time in March. Looks like it's either before 0600 or after noon. After noon makes for a late arrival in Venezia. March might be kind of sub-optimal for the CT, Michael. Why not add time to Rome, Venice or Siena and not move around quite so much? You seem to be a veteran and savvy traveler: 5 places in 8 nights seems like a lot of packing and unpacking to me! Reminds me of business trips.

What the .... Michael from Phoenix, this is Michael from Phoenix. You are far too polite, people will grow confused. Ok, I guess I will need to change my handle.

#1? #2? Hard to tell you guys apart except for an ever-changing number of posts.

La Spezia to Venice can be as short as 4 hours 27 minutes. Check the Trenitalia schedules and rail.ch and bahn.de, NOT RailEurope.

Michael, With such a very short time frame, using a rental car wouldn't be my preferred choice. Given the distance you're going to be covering, you'll spend far more time in transit than you would by using fast trains (which is not the most efficient use of your very limited touring time). The only location where a Car would be beneficial is the trip to Civita. With only one night, it would be VERY difficult to work that in via public transportation. Note that for driving in Italy, each driver will require the compulsory International Driver's Permit, which is used in conjunction with your home D.L. A GPS and a good Map are also advisable. Good luck!

March 14: leave Az March 15: Arrive Rome March 16: Rome March 17: Rome March 18: Orvieto March 19: Siena March 20: Siena March 21: Venice
March 22: Venice March 23: Leave Venice If you are leaving AZ March 14, what I proposed above is what I would do with your schedule. If March 14 is an actual day in Europe, I would then add it to Venice. Edit: And I would do it all with train.

Thanks for the replies! Seems the general consensus is to dump the car. Trains won't be cheap with 3 of us, but are sure a nice way to travel! The hill towns will be a challenge, though Rick Steves' Italy does mention a bus from Orvieto to Bagnoregio (then shuttle or walk to Civita). I dunno. Royal pain? Better to rent a car for a day or 2? As for the CT-Venice leg, sure enough Trenitalia shows several options under 5 hours. Not sure what I did wrong the first time (I think I used bahn.de). Anyway, thanks for the corrections! As for the suggestions to drop CT... well, MAYBE, but I have to push back a little. CT was definitely one of the highlights of the 5-week trip my wife and I took 20 years ago, and we've been looking forward to sharing it with our daughter. We don't mind chilly weather (it's a refreshing departure from the AZ summers). Then there's the ocean! (Well, sea.) I know we'll be in Venice, but I sense it gives quite a different feeling than the Italian Riviera or southern towns like Sorrento. (?) On our two previous Europe trips, we sought an even 3-way mix of big cities, small towns (where people don't speak much English or wear American T-shirts) and rural villages/countryside. We don't mind moving around. We have never stayed anywhere longer than 3 days, and on our last trip, the max was two. (One trip to Maine, we stayed 9 places in 9 nights.) So with that in mind, is it really better to dump CT in favor of more time in the big cities? By the way, Kelly, yes we are arriving the morning of the 14th (leaving PHX on the 13th). And Michael, I guess the old western phrase "this town isn't big enough for the two of us" doesn't quite apply in a metro area of 4.3 million. I may have to change my moniker to Michael T or something. Please tell me your last name does not begin with T. :)

Something you said in a second posting - - a shuttle to Civita - - suggests to me that you are not clear about the peculiar siting of said village. It's on a high mesa, connected to the mainland only by a pedestrian bridge. No choice; you walk. IMO, neither Bagnoreggio,nor Civita is worth devoting part of your very short trip to. Once you get to Civita, there's not much there. With just one night in Orvieto, spend spend your time there. Beautiful duomo, nice old town, underground caves, Etruscan museum, good food.

I provided my response based on the idea that you really do not have much time for hill towns. Leaving Rome, you can get to Orvieto early morning, and by the time you explore there, except for a short trip to a nearby town, your day is done. Orvieto to Siena will take a few hours the next day, again, by the time you explore there...your day is done, and you will be on your way to the CT the next day. If you really want to explore a little more, consider doing the two nights in Orvieto, renting a car for the second day to explore, renting and returning to Orvieto. The other option would be to just do a short tour of Orvieto and proceed to Siena for two nights, using the second day to rent a car again from Siena.

Thanks everybody for your valuable input! The advice was pretty much unanimous, and we'd be fools not to take it into account. OK, we are definitely going to ditch the car idea (except maybe for hill towns). Also... as much as it breaks our hearts, it is probably a sensible idea to bypass CT this trip. (Our daughter will just have to come back sometime, preferably with aging parents in tow.) This means all of our destinations will be new to my wife and me! I like Paul's idea of an extra day in Orvieto with a 1-day car rental. Another possibility is to rent the car from Rome and drop it off in Siena (2 day rental). This still leaves one extra day to devote to Rome, Siena or Venice. I'm thinking Venice, since our original schedule didn't allow much time there (early evening arrival on 3/20 and very early flight home on 3/22).

Trains! Even with the car, we had to park in La Spezia and returning the car was a very timely ordeal. If you do go to the Cinqueterre, Vernazza was my favorite. The area is positively gorgeous but, very laid back. If you go to Civita, another favorite, you have to stay in Bagnoreggio with Pucci! Rick still lists her place, but if you can't find it, post and I will look up info. She is wonderful and her husband is an awesome cook. Have dinner there....it's cheap and soooo delicious. The bolongnese meat sauce is mouth-watering! Everything is homemade (breakfast is a feast) and plentiful. It is also right across the street from a very old church where we saw a procession during Easter walking right past our window. Really something to see. The name of the place is Romantica Pucci...don't miss it!

Thank you Peg for the Bagnoregio advice! Pucci is still top-listed in Steves' Italy 2011, and I have sent an email. It would be a splurge for the 3 of us (extra 25 euro for 3rd bed), but sounds worth it. Were you able to manage without a car? I do like Paul's idea of at least a 1 day rental from Orvieto to explore the hill towns (which would of course include Bagnoregio).

Here is our new itinerary, based on the feedback from this group: March, 2011 {brackets = night stay} Mo 14: Arrive Rome early {Rome} Tu 15: Rome {Rome} We 16: Rome, train to Orvieto {Orvieto?} Th 17: Hill Towns (rent car) {Bagnoregio?} Fr 18: Orvieto (return car), train to Siena {Siena} Sa 19: Siena, train to Florence or Venice {TBD} Su 20: Venice {Venice}
Mo 21: Venice {Venice} Tu 22: Leave Venice early {Phoenix} I know I said we were skipping Florence, but the hourly train from Siena to Venice includes a 40 minute layover in Florence. Since we're there, maybe we should devote a few hours, or even a day? Also, we could somewhat reverse the 16th and 17th, exploring the hill towns first, then Orvieto the 2nd night (and straight to Siena the next day). As always, I welcome your comments/advice!

Michael:
I don't know why you'd stay one night Orvieto and one night Bagnoregio, except to experience that tiny town at night. Stay in Orvieto two nights (16 & 17) as there is much more to choose from and see; Day trip to Civita/Bagnoregio, drive to Viterbo if you still have time to tour that day. Two nights (18 & 19) in Siena would give you time to see Siena and maybe daytrip to Florence the second day if you aren't worn out. Two nights Venice is bare minimum IMHO. Just my two centisimi!

We did it the other way. We took EuroStar from Rome to Venice, then trained to Verona and rented a car, then to 5 Terre and on down to Fiumicino for departure. Returned the car there. We stayed at Portovenere and boated to the 5 Terre cities. I am sure you could do Orvieto and Siena on the way (rental car), then take the train from Firenze to Venezie, then to Verona and car over to 5 Terre. If you return a car in Frienze do NOT take it down town. Drop it at the airport and catch a ride downtown. Much, much easier. I have done both a couple of times. Returning a car in Venice is no problem. It is a bit of hike from the train station to the car rentals but you can do it. Hope this helps. Have a great time.

Michael, Regarding the Shuttle to Civita....... It travels from the main square in Bagnoregio to the base of the footbridge that leads to Civita di Bagnoregio (footbridge is not entirely a correct description, as I've seen a few Motorcycles on it as well). It DOES save some walking, so I'd recommend the Shuttle. I believe the hours of operation on the Shuttle have been reduced as a "cost cutting measure", so it would be a good idea to verify the return times so that you don't miss the Bus back to Orvieto (or wherever you're staying). Cheers!

Based on most of the above advice, we have come around and will probably avoid a car completely, depending on the extent to which we want to explore the hill towns. (There's still time to decide.) I am going to create a separate post re: the extra night in Siena vs. Florence vs. Venice outside the Transportation thread. To follow up on Rosalyn's and Laurel's posts, Bagnoregio and Civita still have some appeal to us, despite being small and not lively. And the Pucci place (recommended by Peg) is a draw. Since we'll be exploring outside Orvieto anyway, we might as well overnight somewhere else one of the 2 nights. (Now we're thinking the first night.) With only our carry-ons in tow, hotel hopping is a piece of cake. (Rosalyn, I understand there's no shuttle into Civita proper. My understanding is it gets you across Bagnoregio, thus cutting 20 minutes off the 30 minute walk. I probably shouldn't have mentioned it.) Thanks, all, for taking the time to respond. We will definitely have a better (reduced hassle) trip because of you.

We are also traveling from Phoenix on the 14th with our 8 yr old son starting from Rome and hitting all the hot spots in our 10 day adventure using the rail system..Already have the tickets and reservations so, it's been a relief to know that piece of the planning is complete..