Refundable Tickets vs Trip Insurance

I'm confused -which option are you favoring?
ADDITIONAL ITEMS TO CONSIDER:
Would you need health insurance, covid quarantine expenses, and medical evacuation coverage provided by most travel insurance policies? Not to mention that most hotels who allow cancelations have at least a 48 hr cancel requirement. Please explain further.
Safe travels!

I didn't really see the need of refundable tickets if I had insurance. However, in my particular situation there is no hotel cost. As for evacuation ... my risk tolerance with the new strain, vaccinated, have a local doctor, etc. is such that I am in a different category on those issues too, but good point and makes the trip insurance an even better solution over refundable tickets.

1. Have you checked for the current price on a “cancel for any reason” policy? I have seen trip insurance prices go up a lot recently.

2. Make sure you read through the policy for exclusions. My understanding is that “cancel for any reason” does not literally mean “any” reason.

3. Also see how much they actually reimburse you if you do cancel—-it may be not 100% but more like 50-75%.

As everyone else has said, do the math. We always insure, but this time used it for unexpected phone calls, change fees on air tickets, cancellation fees on some Airbnbs, extra transportation costs and a couple nights of unexpected last-minute hotel hotel rooms. Due to a death in the family, we cut short our Sicily trip only 9 days in. Our insurance costs are higher because of our ages, but in this case, it did save us about $400. I understand that most people need medical coverage overseas. Our insurance covers everything overseas, but I have not been able to find an insurance which does not include medical because that would save us a bundle. Anyone know if that exists?

This is really just for discussion. I know what I am doing.
So, I checked a price on my March trip.

My airfare round trip to Budapest is $720.00RT
My airfare to Ukraine from Budapest is $100.00RT
My hotel in Ukraine is $360.00
And if I paid full fare my accommodations in Budapest would be about $1200
All told, thats $2380.00 so i priced travel insurance for a $2500.00 trip

Covid-19 Cancellation Covered (100%)
Covid-19 Medical Covered
Cancellation $2,500
Interruption $3,750
Medical Evacuation $1,000,000
Medical $500,000 Primary

Total cost depending on the company was $175 to $200.

With the standard ticket, changing plans is $250 PLUS the difference between what I paid and the published air fare for the new flight. I expect that would be closer to $1300 for the long haul segment if close to the date of travel. I dont expect the Ukraine segment will change much; So the additional cost for each version (change plus initial upcharges)

$830 to change flights ($250 plus difference in airfare).
$100 for new Ukraine Airfare
$600 for new booking for Budapest (50% refund subtracted from new cost)
$0 on the hotel in the Ukraine (if i cancel within 24 hours)
COST $1530 to change the trip on top of the initial cost of $2380.00 = $3910.00

Or I could have purchased a refundable flight for about $1300.00 for the long haul and $200 for the Ukraine segment, So,

$600 to change flights to more expensive flight.
$200 approx for changeable airfare to Ukraine.
$600 for new booking for Budapest (50% refund subtracted from new cost)
$0 on the hotel in the Ukraine (if i cancel within 24 hours)
COST $1400 to change the trip on top of the initial cost of $3180.00 = $4580.00

Or i can use the discount tickets with the insurance. So,

$200 Insurance
$600 Cost of new more expensive ticket after insurance payment
$0 for the non-refundable part of the Budapest accommodations after insurance pays off.
$0 cost of new airfare to Ukraine after insurance pays off
$0 cost of the first booking in Budapest after insurance pays off
$0 on the hotel in the Ukraine (if i cancel within 24 hours)
COST $800 to change the trip on top of the initial cost of $2380.00 = $3180.00

I could imagine using the COVID medical, but not the evacuation as medical care is cheaper in Hungary (and just as good). But I guess maybe if I got sick in Ukraine it would be helpful. I should have bought the insurance, shame on me.

Wanderlust58; I saw a number of post where people had stated that because of the uncertainty that they had bought refundable tickets. No one suggested they do the math. So this post was to prompt that.

Nick; the earlier policy I had covered everything the one above does. Not offering all the details doesn't necessarily imply ignorance. Or at least that's the way I look at people.

I could imagine using the COVID medical, but not the evacuation as medical care is cheaper in Hungary (and just as good).

Really? And your data source? See this article. https://www.portfolio.hu/en/economy/20211109/hungary-dangerously-close-to-running-out-of-icu-ventilation-capacities-509604. For everyday healthcare needs almost anyplace in Europe will suffice. But if I’m really sick I’m coming back to the USA. I don’t like the terms and conditions on recent policies I’ve read for evacuation so I’m buying MedJet Assist or similar.

Edit: I had a much longer post that really got off topic. If anyone wants to discuss Health Care in Hungary, PM me.
Alan, my data source is personal experience over 10 years with private health care in Hungary and reading the local press.

The now 6 week old article about COVID you posted is contrary to current reality. I was there about the time the article was written and based on conversations with friends and neighbors, and doctors, I dont think the article was particularly accurate when it was posted. Hospital beds are nearly half empty; COVID numbers are way below past highs and new facilities have developed to handle substantially more COVID cases. The government stance is that as long as the hospitals can handle the load, no lockdown. All in all, positive, for visiting. But of course, risk tolerance is a personal choice. I plan on bringing self tests.

I still buy evacuation (MedJet) if I am going someplace where I worry about healthcare quality.

I am currently not worried about refund of a plane tickets. I bought tickets with airlines that right now are giving a pretty good cancellation policies. No I won’t get my cash back but I had to cancel a trip to Europe last year and I got the credit and used it for trips in the United States, no problem it was easy. I did buy cancel for any reason insurance for a trip to Paris next year so that if I decide to cancel the apartment rental will be refunded but the plane ticket is not insured

To me you're missing all the other things that travel insurance covers. My partner collapsed in China - Chinese hospital was excellent and cheap by Western standards - I thought around US$1000 for 4 days in a private hospital was fine. I would have been less happy about paying for the US$50k air transfer from Lanzhou to Beijing when they couldn't stabilize him. They also covered the approx US$1500 I racked up staying in a 5 star hotel in Beijing nearby - why 5 star - they spoke English - by that stage I needed to be able to communicate with my hotel.

The also paid for the 3 business class seats back to NZ. We didn't return for medical care (the medical in China was excellent) - we returned because our trip was over ( we had planned months in Central Asia) and our visas were going to expire in China. At the moment you no longer need hospital care you need to either move on return home unless you have some right to stay in the country.

I also claimed probably another $10k worth of miscellaneous costs which were flights, 10% loss of an expensive tour, some trains I couldn't cancel in time.

Yeah, and sometimes you just need to get out of the free healthcare systems. Several years ago I was with a group in London. One of the women fell day one and broke her shoulder in three places. The British healthcare system is free! we were told basically that because she was 65 years old the fact that her right arm would no longer really be useful was not a problem and she was not entitled to surgery.

Luckily I knew people who worked for a private hospital in the United Kingdom, we got her transferred out of the “free healthcare system” into the private healthcare system, where they worked with our insurance company to get her a business class flight home with a nurse. Once home she had surgery and went on to regain full use of her arm.

@wanderlust
Look on insuremytrip.com ir squaremouth.com. I think I’ve seen “cafeteria” type policies on those sites; i.e., you choose which components you want. Or, it might have been the AAA travel insurance.

@Carole - why should the British tax payer pay for a visitor's accident? That seems a perfectly reasonable approach. Similar would happen in NZ . You'll be transported in an ambulance (free) and dealt with as an emergency I remember when my partner was post-op in a cardiac ward (public ie free) - the staff were still laughing about an American who came in as an emergency (presumably heart attack) - who literally had his credit card out to pay on admission! He then tried to tip all the staff when he was discharged LOL (that's called giving a bribe btw and would be very unethical to accept).

However if you want anything fancy or elective - yup you will be on a very long waiting list or paying for private.

Obviously if you need a medical evac or a nurse to accompany you on a commercial flight - you'll be paying for that yourself.

Thanks Roslyn. I checked both sites but clearly missed something. Back to the drawing board for me!

the staff were still laughing about an American who came in as an
emergency (presumably heart attack) - who literally had his credit
card out to pay on admission! He then tried to tip all the staff when
he was discharged LOL (that's called giving a bribe btw and would be
very unethical to accept).

He wasn't home in the US so I am guessing he was ready for the worst. In the US, it is illegal to ask for payment until after they take care of you. And I have never, ever, heard of anyone tipping medical staff. I send Christmas cards though.

And if a Brit ends up in a US hospital, with no way to pay, the US taxpayers will foot the bill.

Back to topic. What I think I have learned from this exercise is:

Do the math for each trip

UK citizens pay less travel insurance to travel to Europe than US citizens do. No surprise there. Probably a function of distance and reciprocal socialized medicine. Maybe? Or maybe not since Brexit.

There is a good chance buying trip insurance will be cheaper than refundable flights. To do both, might be paying twice for the same benefit.

Read the policy carefully to see what it covers and what percent it pays.

If you aren’t comfortable with the health care system in the country you are visiting, then evacuation coverage might be worth it (read when they will actually evacuate you, don’t believe its your choice).

Check your current health policy and see if they will pay on medical bills incurred on the road. If not, the health coverage in travel insurance may be useful.

Dealing with a travel insurance company might be a hassle to get your payment.

Accommodation cost might be more than the tickets and refundable tickets aren't going to help with that. Book wisely.

I never buy refundable tickets and I haven't bought trip insurance in years. But after this exercise, I think I start buying trip insurance again (more for the medical portion than anything else ... of course I could also take advantage of cheaper prepaid rooms too).

I have an annual travel insurance policy and a separate evacuation policy.

The travel policy is not a cancel for any reason but it will cover medical expenses, trip interruprtion expenses, lost/delayed baggage expnses, etc. While it does offer medical evacuation insurance, it will only get me to the nearest hospital that can deal with my issue. The separate evacuation insurance will transfer me to the hospital of my choosing. It also offers assistance should I need to get home in a non-medical emergency. (Not so much the cost but help in making plans. )

Remember, also, if you are on Medicare, you are not covered outside the USA.

For me, it's piece of mind for about $1000/year. If you just make one trip per year, it's not worth it. Instead, get an policy to just cover that trip. But for me, it is.

I had MedJet Evacuation service maybe 15 years ago. Read up on it again today. The price for the most comprehensive package is $444/year with discounts if you join for 2, 3 or 5 years. The five year plan works out to about $370/year. There is a cheaper plan too that doesn't cover ambulance rides. For that you are looking at about $300 for one year and as little as $200 on the five year policy.

While it doesn't have medical converge, just evacuation, the high end plan does offer up to $50,000 cash advance. With either plan, if you are in the hospital in France, and if you can be moved, its your choice. If you choose yes, then you end up in a hospital at home and presumably your own medical insurance will start paying.

Pays for domestic and international travel.

So, if you make 3 trips a year, the coverage is $100 per trip on the low end and about $150 on the high end. Not bad.

Annual Trip Insurance policies I have discovered cost not much more than single trip policies. But in fact they only pay on one trip. But what are the odds of needing it twice a year? The most basic I found ($155 annual) pays $10,000 on medical (including COVID) but who needs more cause MedJet will take you home for your insurance to take over. But other policies have a lot more coverage for not much more money.

Frank II thanks for the idea. Sounds like this will average out on 3 trips a year (but I usually do four) to $150 to $300 per trip depending on the final selection.

I have Allianz annual travel insurance and a few of the things you stated aren't true.

My travel insurance is not just good for one trip. My only limit is that no one trip can be more than 90 days. As long as I come home for at least one day, and I am more than 150 miles from home, my travel insurance is valid.

On that policy, my medical coverage is up to $50,000. The evacuation coverage is only to the nearest major center and not necessarily to one of my choosing. (Which is why I have Medjet Assist.) If I am seriously hurt, or need emergency surgery, I can't say okay, let's arrange for an air ambulance to get me home so my medical insurance kicks in. I may need surgery right then and there.

I'm also not looking at what the day cost is compared to this or compared to that. I wanted certain coverage to know I was covered. When I knew what I wanted, I compared coverages. For awhile I was with Travel Guard but found the Allianz coverage to be better.

After years of buying individual trip policies, I realized it was more cost effective to buy a yearly policy. I spent time on the phone asking questions and do this every year to see if any changes have been made. (This year's conversation was a lot about covid coverage.)

Every policy is different. I sleep better knowing I have plenty of coverage in case of an emergency. Others may not want that much coverage and are more willing to risk it.

Let me point out... we didn't ask for free care! That's just where they took us. ( I am pretty sure the private hosptial doesn't actually have an ER)

We were prepared to pay. Payment was NOT the issue. But the truth is that they didn't care if we would pay or not, at 65 the loss of full use of an arm was 'to be expected at her age" They not only didn't want payment, they didn't want to provide care. When they sent her back to the hotel she asked how much she owned "Oh nothing, unlike the US it's free" (We had a nurse with us who withheld the statement she wanted to make LOL!)

But because we did have insurance I was able to get the tour member transferred to the private hospital's care. (There's a reason it's incredibly profitable in a country with "Free" care :) )

Having insurance opens doors to you that might be closed if you don't have it was my point. While I know that's not "popular" to admit in Europe there are a lot of "private" providers out there.

I'd encourage anyone considering cancel-for-any-reason travel insurance to read the policy language carefully to see what is included and what is not. Also check the company's regular policy. In at least some cases the regular policies cover situations I wasn't expecting to see, such as loss of the insured person's job and illness of a travel partner or close relative. If coverage for fear of COVID, quarantine requirements, etc., is a must-have, CFAR coverage may be what the traveler needs, but the cost is higher and the policies I've seen only pay out 50% or (for an even higher cost) 75% of covered expenses. Be sure it's really what you need/want.

Frank II as usual I did a poor job of expressing myself, I meant the policy I was looking at had such low annual limits, that it would probably only have enough coverage for one cancellation or medical event. But the low end is what i was looking for thinking it would be a very bad year indeed to need the insurance twice. I have only canceled one trip in my entire life (and lost $250 on that). And they are all for 90 day trips or some for more $$$ longer trips (each trip).

Also people keep in mind that I am looking at individual coverage. Most of these have family plans that might work out cheaper for couples or families.

So kicking it up a notch, as an example to anyone interested, this sort of coverage is available for about $300/year:
Covid-19 Cancellation Covered
Covid-19 Medical Covered
Cancellation $5,000
Interruption $5,000
Medical Evacuation $100,000
Medical $20,000 Secondary

The medical is a bit low and the Medical Evacuation is limited as Frank II says, but add MedJet to it for another $300 annually and it lessens the time of exposure without being able to use your US insurance policy. But do keep in mind these are reimbursements. You still got to have the cash for the medical treatment. Oh, and they are secondary policies so it will take a while to get your cash.

The Cancellation and interruption coverage will cover 100% of one of most of my trips if I did nothing with free cancelation (rarely happens), maybe three trips flying Turkish Air and having at least half of my hotel reservations with cancellation policies.

So, $600 for both policies/3 trips is $200 a trip or about the cost of what the single trip coverage would be without the MedJet evacuation service. Pre-covid I was doing 4 trips so for me that’s $150 a trip. Even with two trips a year, this is a good deal.

Frank II, you are a wise man. Thank you for leading me this way. Really does beat the heck out of paying extra for refundable tickets and having to worry that each and every hotel reservation has a cancellation policy.

Carol, one of the benefits of travel is education. Now if you get into one of those European Healthcare is better than US Healthcare arguments you will be better informed as to what about each may or may not be better than the other. In the US your friend may have gone to surgery long before anyone asked how she was going to pay for it; and then admittedly been in debt the rest of her life (if not insured). I had a close friend recently that had a massive heart attack and was in ICU for 2 weeks before anyone showed up to discuss insurance and payment. And many, many years ago my wife and I had a tragic result during a pregnancy, again, they took her immediately, saved her life and I paid the $250 a month for the next several years. These days I have insurance but the deductible is so high its often cheaper to travel to a private hospital in Europe for procedures. Both systems are broken, just in different ways.

Carol, I am confused. Did the private hospital take your insurance for another who did not have insurance? "But because we did have insurance I was able to get the tour member transferred to the private hospital's care." And, also . . ." into the private healthcare system, where they worked with our insurance company to get her a business class flight home with a nurse." Your insurance company also paid for another's flight (business class, yet!) home with a nurse?

Frank II, I was going to PM you but decided to ask here so others can learn from your experience. Why did you choose Allianz annual insurance? There have been previous threads mentioning Nationwide and Trawick annual policies. All seem to be similar. Have you filed a claim and what was your experience?

Second question: Why did you choose Medjet Assist over Medjet Horizon? Is the extra cost not worth the added coverage?

I ask because I am considering a combination of GeoBlue Trekker for medical ($100,000 coverage includes pre-existing), cost $269/yr; Medjet Assist for evacuation, cost $295/yr; and Nationwide for $5000 trip cancellation/interruption insurance and incidentals, medical doesn't include pre-existing, $379/yr. Total $943 total = 471.50 per trip (2 trips within a year). At 71, my comfort level to over-insure, better to have it and not need it than to need it and not have it, but I don't need premium single trip insurance.

Thanks.
Kathy

Kathy, thanks for posting it here. I think this is a pretty informatie thread. Does the GeoBlue Trekker cover COVID? When I looked, seems to me it didnt? When I looked at the two MedJet policies the only difference that I thought I might benefit from is the ambulance on the ore expensive one. But that was a bunch more policy cost for just that benefit. I carried MedJet for decades and never used them. To be honest I dont know anyone that ever collected on travel insurance of any type. But like you, I am not as young as I once was, so time to reconsider things....

I carried MedJet for decades and never used them.

That’s the best possible outcome!

I have Medjet Horizon but the company is known as Medjet Assist. (At least it was when I first signed with them.)

I went with Allianz because I liked their policy. I looked at GeoBlue and for some reason, I can't remember, I wasn't happy with the policy. It didn't give me the coverage I wanted.

I have never had to file a claim and I hope I never do.

James E, GeoBlue’s Covid coverage is a little hidden but this is what I found on their website, basically the same as other travel insurance.

GeoBlue Voyager and Trekker plans:
Medically necessary treatment for COVID-19 is covered as an Illness under GeoBlue Voyager and Trekker plans, up to age 95. As of January 1st, 2021, medically necessary COVID-19 treatment is covered, however the policy deductible applies (if applicable).

Since Medjet Horizon covers ambulance, is that a high cost in Europe, specifically Western Europe? I’m curious if it’s worth the extra cost for flood, earthquake etc events since they seem less rare than in the past, also civil unrest.

Hmm. I just did a test quote at Insure My Trip for "Cancel for Any Reason" cancellation insurance for the trip my husband and I just took. The quote was almost 800 Canadian for flights and accommodation. That's a lot! And that did not include medical, evacuation, or accidental death. Not worth it at all. Our flights were completely flexible--because of Covid. We may have got credits instead of refunds, but we would have been okay with that. I'm not going to go back and do all the math, but I'm pretty sure choosing refundable accommodation rates vs non-refundable ones, where applicable, did not add up to $800. When I had to cancel that trip in 2020, we lost only one night's accommodation at one place in Italy. We also never received a refund from the Uffizi gallery. That wasn't too bad, overall, and I wasn't even thinking about booking everything fully refundable back then. We certainly didn't lose anything close to $800.

My husband's medical insurance that he has through work covers quite a bit of travel medical and evacuation, so I wouldn't spend extra for that. The only time I did was when we went to Peru and the Galapagos, because we wouldn't have been covered for high altitude activities or snorkelling with our regular insurance.

Then again, I'm one who believes that a lot of insurance isn't worth it. Think about it. If the insurance companies usually had to pay out more than they took in, they wouldn't make any money. Of course I insure for medical where the expenses could run to tens or even hundreds of thousands of dollars, but for everything else? No. I'd rather self-insure.

SO for some of you who may not be familiar with this..

In several European countries there are private hospitals and other providers that work outside of the state funded system. They will NOT take you unless you have an insurance plan that will pay (AKA as one not paid by the government) or a LOT of cash.

So if you have an accident/illness and you want them to take over your care from the "free" or "cheap" (because even if you have to pay it's generally far cheaper to pay for care in Europe than in the US) you better be able to prove you the resources or a private insurance policy. These hospitals are not cheap, but they are busy. They are busy with people who have the means and want the hip replacement NOW instead of in several months for example. They are also willing to do things like surgery on an arm of a 65 year old that might be considered "elective" to the NHS, but not to the 65 year old

So if you chose to "self insure" remember that while you may be doing it because "healthcare is much more affordable in Europe" It may also come with some drawbacks that as Americans we aren't used to.

Carol, as always, very good points.

And Europe is not a place, it is a collection of places; so things will vary greatly. Even the size of the town you are in may have a more significant impact than in the US

I have had experiences in two countries that illustrate that well. In Romania I was a private patient in a government hospital. It was, well, lets say a challenge. Tipping was expected (contrary to the UK). Care was somewhat primitive as were the doctor’s supplies. But all in all it came out okay and it was a good learning experience.

Then there is Hungary. Specifically, Budapest, because the same availability of private clinics doesn’t exist in much of the country.

There I got a procedure under general anesthesia done for $350 vs $6000 in the US. Another procedure for $300 (would have been cheaper but I insisted on a new scalpel). The second one I suspect would have been several thousand in the US (no US doctor uses a scalpel for less than that). My physicals run about $180 with chest x-ray, blood and urine analysis vs $600+ in the US. Dental work? Don’t even get me started. Saved many thousands over the years. My cardiologist there charges something less than $50 for a checkup and EKG. Hearing aids about a third cheaper and I have a purely vain elective procedure in March that is $4000 there vs $8000+ in the US. Those were all elective but except for the last one would have been covered by my insurance to some degree. Then there is the cost of meds. But follow the rules. Generally speaking you are allowed to purchase what you need when traveling and bring the unused back. They say returning with a month’s supply is acceptable; more than that is not permitted. With insurance my meds are about $250/month in Europe maybe $50 (but the major thing I need is not approved in the EU so I cant buy it).

But you are right, cash is king (or in my case credit card). Some of those travel policies offer cash advances. That might help, but I suspect they will take a few days to get. Many of the private hospitals and clinics in Europe don’t take any kind of insurance, some sell their own. Count on spending your own money and getting reimbursed. Of course this is all a good cause to get evacuation coverage so you can get back on your medical insurance faster.

Generally speaking, the competence of care where I go is on par with the US, but the level of service is several notches above anything I have experienced in the US. Possibly because its almost pure capitalism where keeping the customer happy is paramount.

The state hospitals and clinics in Hungary? Not horrible, but you will definitely want your evacuation insurance.

BB, its either the nature of your trip or the cost of Canada. No idea which.

Dont forget you dont have to insure the entire trip, only that portion that is not refundable. Your quote of about US$600 would be what I would expect for two people insuring maybe $8,000.

If you are confident that you will loose less than USD$600 and that your Canadian insurance will cover you in Europe, then I wouldnt buy the insurance either.

I wouldn't be surprised if it is more expensive for Canadians. Most things are, it seems.

Or perhaps it's our age--even though I wasn't getting quotes on medical coverage, per se, perhaps it's thought that the older one is, the more likely one will have to cancel for health reasons.

Thats unfortunate.

I just bought my policies.

What did you end up buying James E.?

Trawick Safe Travels Annual Delux works for me. $305.00
Covid-19 Cancellation Covered
Covid-19 Medical Covered
Cancellation $5,000
Interruption $5,000
Medical Evacuation $100,000
Medical $20,000 Secondary

Combined with MedJet Assist annual policy (the basic policy) $295.00

That works out to $200 a trip if I take three trips (I am hoping for four trips). Standard single trip insurance would have been $200 and wouldn't have the evacuation coverage.

But travel style, what sort of hotels and flights you book; etc might make other options better for you. I just rarely have much that isn't refundable, although some like the Turkish Air tickets charge for the change. I am doing this primarily for the medical. Enough medical to get me stabilized (i hope) and MedJet to get me home and on my standard policy if its really bad. But because of the way it pays, I do realize I will need access to cash and wait for a reimbursement. .... I do.

Next question. How many of these policies will exclude coverage if you are in a Level 4 country?

That was my question from the beginning. And at what point. The Nationwide policy I got for Sept. in Croatia through World Nomads DID exclude Level 4 countries (they told me 3 days before I left). Croatia was level 3 so that was ok; but Slovenia went Level 4 mid-trip. I am glad I didn’t have to find out if they would cover Level 4 if the trip had already begun.

Virtually everywhere is Level 4 now…..

My Allianz policy does not restrict Level 4 countries. I asked.

Frank II, like I would be crazy enough to go to a Level 4 country.

Since this is about insurance: My trip in March includes a few days in Ukraine. One of their entry requirements is that you purchase a local COVID insurance policy. I have no idea what it covers. Bought it for my trip there in August but never read it. I think it cost about $5. https://visitukraine.today/

Frank II, like I would be crazy enough to go to a Level 4 country.

I'm waiting for the LOL.