Questions regarding classes for rail passes

Thanks for the info. I had read the info at this site and was pretty sure it was correct (we trust Rick Steve!) However it conflicted with information at other sites, including the EuroRail site, so before committing to anything, we wanted to be 100% sure.

How do they conflict? EuroRail will sell you an adult pass for Italy in either First or Second Class. If you have read on various websites (including the forum here) that adult passes are always First Class, that is referring to the multi-country and "global" passes. The information in the Railpass section here is definitely accurate because you can buy the Second Class Italy pass here[INVALID]-Rick Steves ETBD acts as an agent for RailEurope, which actually issues the passes. A bonus for buying the pass on this website is that you get a 20% off coupon for the travel store. If you need any luggage, it's a good deal.

Lola thank you very much for your replies. However please stop implying that I have not read anything. I have spent countless hours digging through not only this website, but many other websites and information. For someone who is new to Europe rail travel the information is overwhelming. I have thoroughly read all of the sites before ever posting here. I gave the EuroRail site as just one example, and the information I read regarding the passes always being first class said nothing about it only applying to multi-country passes. Maybe it was somehwere on the site, but it was not on the page I was reading. Making this even more difficult is the often poor translations at some of these sites. I have found conflicting information and just needed clarification here. Thank you, and now that my questions have been answered, we can move on to another subject.

Frank, Read the "railpass" information on this website, and look at the various options to purchase. You'll see that many of the "multi-country" passes are only available in First class, unless you are a "youth" (under 26). If you buy a one-country pass for Italy (or Switzerland, which is where we usually go), you can buy a 2d class pass even if you are not a youth. Two people (or more) traveling together get the "saver" pass, which is less. It looks like you can get a 2d class Italy-France Pass as well.

If you read it that thoroughly, you might have noticed that it is called Eurail, not EuroRail. :-P At any rate, if you are worried about conflicting information from different sources, I don't know that a message board is where you want to go for information. I suggest you contact phone number or e-mail on the official Eurail website and get the info straight from them. Also, I'm going to provide the usual Travelers Helpline disclaimer and say: have you looked into how much point-to-point tickets would cost? I don't know where in Italy you are going, but you might actually save money by not buying a rail pass, as train tickets are relatively cheap in Italy.

Actually yes I have, and it appears that the point to point is going to be cheaper. However I am dotting all my Is and crossing all my Ts and just considering every possibility.

Frank, I'm not "implying" anything; just trying to help. I went to the EuroRail website you mentioned (which is not the same as RailEurope, so it's confusing). I saw right away that you could buy an "adult" pass for Italy in Second Class. So I was curious where you saw on that site that you could only buy a 1st class pass for Italy. If you are new at this you have probably discovered that there is a LOT of information out there on the various websites and travel forums, and not all of it is correct, particularly when it comes to informaton on the forums, which is posted by friendly volunteers based on their own experiences and opinions. That has to be distinguished from what is on this same website (Rick Steves) in the "Railpasses" section, which is a commercial site where ETBD actually sells the passes, and gives accurate information about them. There is a learning curve involved in using this site and others, and I was just trying to help. For example, I'm now curious where you got your prices for point-to-point tickets for Italy. If from RailEurope (or EuroRail, which is different), the prices do not reflect what you would actually pay in Italy. You will find those prices on the Trenitalia website, www.trenitalia.com. But even those prices do not reflect the discounts that you can get if you buy the tickets a week or more in advance. Unfortunately, you generaly can't do that one the website if you are using an American credit card. It is all definitely very confusing and I only asked where you saw that particular bit of information about the passes in order to understand the background of your comment. Pleasse don't take offense.

Thank you again Lola. I realize you are trying to help, but when you use phrases like "If you have read" it is not very inviting. Believe me, I have read, and I have read TONS. I can't find the exact links off hand to some of the conflicting information, and honestly I don't want to spend the time doing so as my questions have been answered. It is not relevant any more, and the information I am talking about may have not even been at the eurrail site. It may have been at some other site. I did use the Trenitalia website to get some of the point to point information. As part of that, I was able to get pricing for both buying in advance (up to 30% discount) or buying the day of. I realize that some of the prices might not be 100% correct, but I at least needed to get a ball park figure to do the calculations to compare if a rail pass was worth it or not. At this point it does not seem like it is worth it because 1) there seems to be no cost savings 2) I still have to make and pay for reservations in advance (lose flexibility but convenient) or sit in a line at the station and pay for a reservation (flexible but lose convenience). I have also read about the problems using American CC at the Trenitalia, but have also seen other posts of some people who have successfully been able to use the site. I am aware of the double edged sword of forums - it can be both the best and worst place to get information. You either get someone with a lot of experience with a great answer or someone who is "guessing" but doesn't tell you they are guessing.

"I am dotting all my Is and crossing all my Ts". While going this, make sure you add in the ~€10 surcharge (misnamed a reservation) to use Italian EuroStar (assuming you plan on it).

But look carefully at what I said. I was not questioning whether you had read a lot. What I said was, "If you have read XYZ, then this is what it means". That is very different from implying that you haven't read things. I was just trying to explain why you might have read in various places that adult passes are First Class only, when it isn't really correct. Italy isn't easy to figure out, especially because of the uncertainties about whether you'll be able to purchase tickets in advance on Trenitalia (unlikely) and how long you might have to wait in line at the train stations or ticket machines. We went with PTP tickets for 4 of us in June/July and I was happy with that. Maybe we spent a little more than we would have with passes, especially since we had 2 youths in our party, but it all went very smoothly except for the one time we face a horrendous line at Pisa; this was the one time I did not buy tickets and make reservations in advance and boy was I sorry. Apart from that our plans all worked out and we had a great time. I hope you do the same.

Frank, you might find it helpful to download the FREE PDF Rail Guide from this website. Click the "Railpasses" tab at the top and then look for the link in the bottom centre. I did glance over all your posts, but didn't notice whether you've already done this? Cheers!

"No good deed goes unpunished" Clare Booth Luce, or some attribute it to Gore Vidal. Anyway it applies here.

Anyone who comes here for help in sorting out conflicting information should be prepared to learn something without getting defensive. No one here can read your mind. You need to state what research you have done and where you got your information, or people will make assumptions. The fact that you got misinformation about availability of 2d class passes for Italy suggests that you may have been consulting too many websites, including some that are wrong. The fact that you don't even remember where you saw that is unfortunate, as you can't learn from that mistake and avoid that website or at least apply some discretion in the future. Maybe you did lots of research and reading but maybe you did it in the wrong places. Some of your posts suggests a degree of inexperience about travel websites. For ticket prices in Italy, you should look only at Trenitalia, not EuroRail, RailEurope, or any of the other agent websites because they inflate the prices. For passes the prices should be the same from all the agencies, but this website (RS) is good for solid information. I don't know who told you that you can't get a 2d class pass for Italy, but it wasn't one of the agencies like EuroRail or Rick Steves or RailEurope. They want to sell you a pass and if they give you the wrong information they will lose your business because you'll go elsewhere. And for whatever misinformation you got on other websites, you should be grateful to the people here who tried to help you sort it all out, not accuse them of being unwelcoming.

That you all for the information. It seems from several of the posts and private messages that this seems to be a very confusing subject. However I think my questions have been answered and clarified. Based on my research, it doesn't seem to make much sense to by a pass in Italy and go with the point to point tickets instead.

Now that you mention it, holding classes on railpasses would be a great idea. It might circumvent a lot of confusion.