Porter Airlines - New Canadian Regional Carrier

Porter is an airline that began by suing the citizens of Toronto for $800 million and settled for a $30 million government handout. It flies within 200 meters of a school and community centre. Its airport is located adjacent to one of Toronto's finest parks in the centre of a great waterfront, home to aquatic birds, recreational boating, and thousands of homes.

Do the citizens of Toronto a favour -- fly any other airline out of Pearson airport.

Green Waterfront...get your facts straight, and confine them to the question at hand. Porter started with strong financial backing, not a lawsuit. It sued the city of Toronto for reneging on an agreement to build a fixed link to the island airport. The federal government compensated Porter $20-million....9 million to spend on terminal rebuilding at the airport.....11 million for cancellation of the fixed link. The aircraft it operates are turboprops, quieter and less polluting than previous aircraft used by Air Canada Jazz, and are well within limits set by the tripartite commission that governs the airport. Jazz, by the way, now wants back into the Island airport to compete with Porter. Flights into and out of the airport are now about half they were from historic highs in the 1960's. Maybe look at those massive condominiums that block the waterfront from ordinary Torontonians before making wild, unsupported allegatons. By the way, Porter flights are great, much comfier than A-C!

Hey Norm,
If you can explain to me how a company can claim $800 million in damages when it has even started business, I will gladly withdraw my earlier remarks.

Grow Smarter

Green Waterfront....sure, no problem. The parent firm of Porter Airlines started business in 1999, long before the lawsuit. It was the one which signed the deal with the City of Toronto to build the fixed link, prior to their subsidiary, Porter Airlines, using it as their Toronto base. But the company's entire business plan was thrown into jeopardy by reneging on the deal. Whether they would have received anything like $800 million in compensation is a moot point, since the suit was settled. To say they started out business with a lawsuit and then got a $30-million government handout is simply wrong. The Island Park school is about a kilometer from the airport. And many citizens of income levels more modest than those who can afford to live along the waterfront or on the island like Porter a lot, because they don't have to battle traffic all the way out to Pearson.

I know that there were and are some important issues associated with not only Porter, but the YTO City Centre Airport in general.

Some residents don't even want an Airport to operate there at all, regardless of any consideration anyone could ever afford them. All the improvements in quieter, less polutive aircraft, bridge-building, improved facilities will never satisfy the area residents IMO.

At any rate, I am interested in hearing about passengers' experience with the new Airline. Are they going to knock Jazz out of the sky?

I've flown them to Toronto Island airport mainly because it's a lot quicker than Pearson....more legroom and nicer seats. They'll do well on the Ottawa-Toronto run, but they may face some serious competition on the others in direct competition with Jazz.....it'll be interesting to see their financial bottom line in a year or two. I think their link to Newark will be a big bonus for them, if they can keep prices down.

Norm, you've done a great job of avoiding the answers. Let me try a few more things on:
1. There is no evidence that there is any economic benefit to an airport on Toronto Island. In fact, there is considerable empirical evidence from previous airline failures (City Express and Air Canada's service reductions) and the continuing losses of the Port Authority that there is no sound reason for the existence of an airport to duplicate Pearson.
2. Torontonians have elected a mayor (twice), an MP, and at least two city councillors who are on record against the airport.
3. Notwithstanding the wishes of the local taxpayers, the federal government has seen fit to subsize Porter and the Port Authority to keep the airport operating.
To those who don't live in Toronto, it may be a convenience. But Toronto's waterfront is no place for an airport. I believe that over time the ecoonomics of the marketplace will deliver this message to Porter as well.

Norm,
I’m curious about you claim about the Q400 being quieter and well within the limits set by the Tripartite Agreement. Note that it’s an agreement not a commission.
The noise limits set out in the Agreement and Bombardier’s noise specifications are set out below.
According to the company that makes the aircraft, the Q400 exceeds the limits in all three measurements.

If you read over Bombardier’s marketing material for the Q400, you’ll find that the claim for quiet is for the passengers not the little people on the ground.

Tripartite Agreement limits
(I got my copy from Toronto City hall)

In excess of 84.0 EPNdB on takeoff (flyover)
or in excess of 83.5 EPNdB on sideline at takeoff
or in excess of 92.0 EPNdB on approach

Bombardier Specs for the Q400:

http://www.q400.com/q400/en/specifications.jsp

Takeoff 78.3 EPNdB
Sideline 84.0 EPNdB
Approach 94.3 EPNdB

Roberto....I'll be glad to continue this discussion off line with you....let's not bore people with something that has nothing to do with the board.

Wow!! Interesting feedback!!
Any comments on the inflight service experience?