point to point or a pass

I hate to sound like a broken record but passes are discussed all the time on this site. You might do a little searching. BUT the big conclusions is ----- You have do your homework !! In other words, you need to price every leg of your trip as a point to point. Only then will you know if a pass is beneficial. Years ago a pass was a no brainer. Two or three long trips and you were covered. Today the passes are much more complicated, often incur addition fees for reservations and for using high speed trains, have limitations, etc. For pricing use the local train site or bahn.de. Don't use Eurorail because their prices include a markup, don't cover all routes, and do not list the discounts available.

I am sure Tim and/or Lee, our true rail experts on this site, will be along shortly with better info.

Joanne,

I am not an expert (and I have noot looked at you list of stops in detail). But here are some quick answers for you, as I know them;

You can use your pass on "fast" trains, but you will often have to pay a suppliment of $10-20 to do so. You may also have to get a seat reservation on some express trains for a few more $ (the train is rarely full, it's done more to get a few more $ out of you). So you could easily incur $100/person in extra charges for several legs of rail riding even though you have a pass.

Your 3-country Selectpass Saver qualifies you to sit in 1st class, but you are not required to.

You can hop on & hop off at will on the same travel "day" without any trouble, unless you are riding one of those more expensive trains requiring a suppliment/seat reservation - those are for a specific train, so once you hop off, you lose it and have to buy a new suppliment/seat reservation to grab the next train.

These days, the pass is more a convenience than a money saver. If you have some knowledge of the many ways to get discounts, you will almost certainly pay less money simply buying point to point tickets. For example, a 5-day pass for 2 will cost $840, or $168/day. One of your longer rides you mentioned was Berlin/Koln. Starting 90 days before, you can (for a limited time) buy 2 tickets online from the Bahn website (http://reiseauskunft.bahn.de/bin/query.exe/en) for 49Euro ($71), but the full fare is 218Euro ($314). As you can see, with a little savvy and planning, you can save quite a lot. Even more considering you don't have to pay suppliments or seat reservations on point to point purchases.

If you do decide you prefer the convenience of a rail pass, buy the 5-day pass and use it only on the longest, most expensive train days. DEFINITELY buy point to point tickets for the days on which you will be taking shorter trips. Those often only cost $20 or less per person and never sell out.

There are no supplements for "fast" train (express: ICE/IC/EC) in Germany. Very few ICEs require reservations. You can make reservations for any express train. Reservations are €5,50 for a single reservation at a ticket counter, or you can purchase a "family" reservation from a ticket automat, for €7,-.

I won't comment on the Switzerland and France part of your trip, but I don't see a railpass for the German part being cost effective.

· For the Berlin to Koeln portion of the trip, if you purchase well in advance from the German Rail website, you might get a SparPreis Family fare as low as €49 for the two of you. This fare is date and train specific, but you'll be in Berlin for three days. Catching the specified train should not be a problem.

· Koeln to St Goar would probably be best as a Quer-durchs-Land-Ticker for two for €39 weekdays or a Schoenes-Wochenende-Ticket for €37 on a weekend day.

· St Goar to Cochem: a €20 VRM Minigruppentageskarte (2-5 P) for unlimited travel in the entire VRM network.

· Cochem (or wherever) to Mannheim: a Rheinland-Pfalz-Ticket for €28 (for 2-5 people). The RT S-Bahn from Mannheim to Heidelberg would be extra. Mannheim and Heidelberg are both in the VRN (Verkehrsverbund Rhein-Neckar). For €14,50, a Ticket 24 PLUS gives up to 5 people unlimited travel in the district for 24 hours.

· Mannheim to Strasbourg: a €28 Baden-Wuerttemberg-Ticket to Kehl, P2P ticket across the river to Strasbourg at €3,60 pP.

All but the SparPreis from Berlin to Koeln are "always available" tickets. You must use regional trains with these tickets. The key to this plan is your purchasing the SparPreis ticket far in advance to get the best fare. SparPreis tickets go on sale 92 days before travel. SparPreis tickets require that at least one leg be by express train; you can use the same ticket with any regional trains (hop off/on) to get to and from the express train.

VRM (Verkehrsverbund-Rhein-Mosel, www.vrm.info) extends along the Rhein from Remagen/Linz to Oberwesel and up the Mosel to Bullay. It includes Cochem, St Goar, and Oberwesel, but not Bacharach.

See, I told you Lee would step uo. No one knows German rail better than Lee, not even Steve.

Thanks everyone for your help!

Joanne

I'll pick up where Lee left off. First, a disclaimer: While I've become very familiar with the Swiss Rail Web site, I haven't been to Switzerland.

Tickets for trains that require seat reservations (like TGVs) are for a specific departure date and time on a specific train. If you buy a ticket from point A to point B and get off at an intermediate stop, you'll have to buy a new ticket to go the rest of the way to point B.

If you are on a train that doesn't require a reservation and is going directly from point A to point B, your ticket is good on any train and USUALLY you can get off at an intermediate stop and use the same ticket to continue to point B on a later train. Ask at the station to be sure.

Here are some 2nd class fares from the French Rail site:

Strasbourg-Colmar: €10.70 on regional trains and €14.60 on TGVs.

Colmar-Zuerich: €35.20 on Corail (InterCity) trains.

From the Swiss Rail site:

Zuerich-Bern via Luzern: 53 CHF.

Bern-Lausanne: 31 CHF.

Lausanne-Paris: If you book well in advance (up to three months allowed), you can get a discount fare as low as 41 CHF. (The standard fare is 124 CHF.)