People's vote: Extra charge for overweight air passengers

Andreas, I did actually read the article. It was about suggestions to add charges for Ryanair; charging more for overweight passengers was only one suggestion; also smoking in BR, toilet paper, charge to log on to Ryanair website, and for bringing on food. So why not entitle your "question" as Ryanair's quest for ideas for extra charges, rather than choosing one of the choices as your title? And if you really wanted people to know they had an opportunity to vote, you could have mentioned that as well. You can vote by going to the Ryanair website and clicking on the article. Yes, this is a touchy subject.

OK, the link to the poll is added.

It's probably a gag, but I'm all for it. While it would suck for big people (I'm a 350lb+ guy myself), I think it's reasonable to charge more, as it costs the airline 2-3 times as much to ship me. A fuel surcharge would be fine with me.

If the airlines charged like freight, so much per pound, it would help encourage those pre-vacation diets.

They could also call the fat charge a two for one special. You get to buy two seats for one of you.

I like the corkage charge for people who bring their own food.

Check this out:

http://cbs2chicago.com/business/united.overweight.passengers.2.985271.html

If a person is too large to take up just one seat, then I have no problem with the airline charging for a second seat.

However, if you just charge for "overweight"...does that mean you charge a pregnant woman for being overweight? Or how do you decide what is overweight? Who's to make that decision?

Should it be arbitrary like the BMI table when a doctor decided, without any guidance, what would be considered overweight?

Or what about where you fly...would overweight be lower in Asian countries where the people tend to be smaller and thinner? Would an okay person in the U.S. be charged for being "overweight" in Japan?

Should a mother carrying a baby be charged for being overweight unless she buys a seat for the baby?

Or someone who has a medical condition or on medication that causes weight gain? Do they get penalized? How about someone who has a cast on, or a physical disability and needs a metal brace. They are now technically overweight. Should they get charged?

Or perhaps only certain people who look a certain way should be allowed to travel. If you don't look like that, you get charged extra.

What do we call that, oh yeah, discrimination.

Ryanair has admitted their quest is mostly a publicity stunt.

Actually, if you are charged by weight, that is not discrimination, because everyone is charged via the same formula ($X/lb). If every extra pound costs the airline X amount, why not.

It will never happen of course.

It looks like with United the criteria they use are if you have to use more than one extender or can't sit with the armrests down. At least with the armrests, this seems like a pretty fair way of applying it since it's charging for an extra seat if you actually NEED the extra seat. Sure, it sucks, but it does seem reasonable.

I'd go for charging by pound. Weigh the passenger and the luggage together and perhaps charge a handling fee per piece of checked luggage. As long as the airlines were upfront about it I see nothing wrong with using that pricing structure.

Charging by the pound would be discriminatory....towards men. Men, in general, weigh more than women so they would automatically be charged more. I don't think it's legal to charge more for the same item depending on race, creed, color, religion or sex.

And all it would take would be one airline to go against this and get most of the passengers.

Thanks, Frank II, for a reply with some insight. Brad, don't you think overweight folks are discriminated against enough in life? A nasty look, a comment, general disrespect towards a person who would give anything to be thin and may have tried a lifetime to loose weight? I vote we charge more for the obnoxious, the intolerant, the predjudiced, the hateful. I, for one, would rather sit next to an overweight person; I am one myself. And Andreas, shame on you. This is a helpline, not a forum for controversial subjects. Who, exactly, will be helped by these answers? And you didn't even ask a question.

Lorraine, I find all the responses and insights very interesting. I didn't know about UA doing something similar and learned about it today. And just so you know: I wouldn't exactly call myself skinny either. This topic is not about whether or not to hate overweight people, it's about what might happen in the nearer future and then we all might be faced with it. ALSO if you actually read the full article on The Sun's or Ryanair's website you'd know that until Friday you can cast your vote on Ryanair.com whether or not to introduce that fee...

Being in a seat from Portland to Frankfurt - non-stop ( I believe it was 11-1/2 hours) with 1/2 my seat taken by someone that required 1-1/2 seats....was very uncomfortable to say the least. Her elbows seemed to always be in front of me. She moved around alot in the seat.

What a trip!

I wish airlines would just put 2 first class sized seats maybe in the back row - that way someone who is large by weight could sit back there comfortably.

But I understand if a person can't sit in their seat if the arm rest is down or needs an extender, it's not fair to the person next to them either and the large person should have to pay for 2 seats - maybe the 2nd one at a discount or something.

I think every passenger should pay for a set weight amount, say 300 lbs. They then get the body weight and bag weight. Anyone who goes over that amount of weight should either A) pack lighter, B) lose some weight or C) pay extra. The idea that a 100lb person can only bring on 2-50lb bags for a total of 200lbs but a 350lb per can also bring on 2-50lb bags for a total of 450 lbs is not equal.

For the record I weight 200lbs and pack light. :)

I am open to raising the limit to any weight amount, but I thought 300 would be easy.

One of the airlines that does sightseeing tours from Las Vegas to the Grand Canyon weighs every passenger to make sure the plane is not overweight (19 seat aircraft). You should see the stink some people put up even though the scale numbers can't be seen by anyone but the preson operating the machine.

Could imagine asking every passenger to get on a scale....you'd have a riot on your hand.

And what about disabled passengers who might need crutches or metal braces. Do you penalize them as well since they weigh more than others.

Quietly, Southwest already does have an overweight policy and United has just announced theirs. My wife an I were on a very full Southwest flight last year. Every seat was sold. Two very large men were in the last row. Both overflowed most of the center seat. Before the doors closed, a Southwest agent came aboard to inform them that because the seat was sold, they had to pay for it or leave the plane. I'm paraphrasing the policy but we actually heard that option explained to them. They had a passenger up front ready to take the seat except that both gentlemen used it up. Interestly, they were traveling with others on the same flight and a very thin friend offered to sit in the middle seat. Too funny but that's what happened.

I've also had a person next to me large enough that when he shifted in his seat, his body bulk on the center arm rest would occasionally change the channel I was listening to. The buttons were on the top. He wanted me to lift the arm rest but I refused.

Not to seem insensitive, but when I buy a seat on a plane (or anywhere else for that matter) I would like the entire seat. I should not have to be uncomfortable for an entire flight. It would be especially bad on an International flight. I don't think it is necessary to weigh people, but maybe there should be a "sample" seat where you check in. If you can't fit in the seat, then you have to buy an extra one. If you suitcase is too big you can't carry it on, right? I suspect that most people that won't fit in a seat already know who they are.

The Southwest policy has nothing to do with your weight, they just want to make sure you fit into your own seat and don't spill over into adjacent seat.

Exactly, Southwest's policy and now United's is fair. If you can't fit in a seat with the armrests down, and your body "extends" into another seat's area, then you have to buy a second seat. I have no problem with that as you are taking up two seats.

However, just to arbitrarily charge extra to people who weigh more, but only take up one seat, is discriminatory.

I agree, extra "padding" should be charged extra. Here in the US fat people get charged double.
And I am really glad. It happened one time to sit next to 350 pounder lady, who took half of seat. Even I pushing her back, she didn't care.

I think people who are flying in the U.S. but whose first language is not English should be required to take an English test to prove they can fully understand spoken English under stress conditions.If they don't pass, they should be required to bring someone along completely fluent in both their language and English.

Why? In case of an emergency, the flight attendants and pilots will be yelling orders into the microphone. If that person doesn't understand completely, they could block the way for others to get out.

Should we make people take a strength test to make sure they can sit in the emergency row and help with the door?

And while you're at it, we should also say that deaf, blind, and disabled should not fly for safety purposes.

At this point you're saying, wait, this is discriminatory. Exactly. It's also discriminatory to charge an overweight person just because they're bigger but taking up the same space as someone underweight?

If you take up more than one seat, then you should be charged for more than one seat. But there are a lot overweight people who have no problem fitting into an airline seat.

I could lose some weight, would technically be considered overweight, but can fit into a regional jet seat without a problem. Why then should I be charged more than anyone else? I travel with carry-on bags only usually weighing less than 18 pounds. I've seen other "normal weight" travelers carrying full suitcases up to the maximum allowed by the airline. They and their luggage weigh more than me and my luggage...yet I'm the one you want to charge because of excess weight. Why shouldn't that person pay more because they are technically adding more weight to the plane than I am?

Do they charge big people double price for the movie theatre???

It's not a useful or relevant comparison. Do movie theaters have a similar problem that needs solving? If so, we could employ their effective solution or policy. They have no problem, therefore no action required.

.

Actually, Frank, this is already part of FAA regulations,

"Additionally, smaller people should not be allowed to sit in an Emergency row. They may have to help open an emergency exit and if they are too small, they may not have the strength."

Directly from the FAA: You must be physically capable and willing to perform emergency actions when seated in emergency or exit rows. If you are not, ask for another seat.

That's why the airlines won't seat elderly, disabled or in some cases children in the exit row or exit seat.

Folks I think y'all are missing the point. The airline is basically in the shipping business. What does it ship? People. Movie theatres don't.

That's why I don't think it matters if you sit in the seat, and you weight 400lbs - it still costs the airline much more more to send you to your destination.

Every day, larger people (chubby or not) pay more, for clothes, for gas, household items - is that discriminatory? My shirts take a heck of a lot more fabric, and is it Shell and Exxon's fault that when I'm in my car alone it's basically like having 2.5 people in it? Is that discrimination?

Should I get a discount on gas to make things even, or clothes?

All that being said, I'm a 390ish pound guy, with 64" shoulders, and I have no problem with the airline asking me to pay more. Such is life. My 2p.

Chris since you're willing to pay extra for everything, how should the airline's judge who's overweight? Should everyone have to get on a scale and the airline will choose an arbitrary number? Should everyone be measured? Should you force people to have doctor's notes stating whether the doctor thinks their overweight? How would you do it?

This is a link to United's policy.

http://www.united.com/page/article/0,6722,52985,00.html

If they are going to have this policy, it seems to be about as fair as they could make it. I read there was an exception where a couple flying together and one was big and the other not, that as long as they could fit into two seats, could fly without the extra charge even though one alone may require a bit more than one seat. If someone has to buy two seats it seems they should be able to have two carry on priveleges but United says that the TSA will not allow that. Also, I doubt the airline will give the customer double freguent flyer miles.

Hi Chris, I hear you, but like the movie theater analagy once again you may be right on technicality, but the practical considerations of charging people higher fares based on weight don't represent a problem that begs to be solved. The disadvantages outweigh the benefits.

Weighing people when they arrive at the airport would be time-consuming, intrusive, logistically cumbersome, humiliating, and counter-productive. Most importantly it does not solve any problems for the airline because the airline only needs to charge enough to cover the average total weight of each passenger load. They have no need to adjust individual fares to do this.

The only problem that needs to be solved is if someone needs to use an extra seat that has been purchased and must be used by someone else. Unlike the former situation, this a significant financial and logistical issue the airline must solve and deal with. In this case the disadvantages do NOT outweigh the benefits.

Frank - like any other shipping company, I think the airline itself should be able to determine what it charges based on the market. You're allowed weight ____ for you and your bags at price ____. Step on a scale, whatever's over will have a fuel surcharge placed on it. If the airline's are charging too much for this, the market will adjust. After all, 60% of American are 'overweight', that's a large customer vase you don't want to offend. (Which is why most of them haven't done it.)

The airline would not be deciding who is overweight, rather they'd decide what weight they will ship at a certain price. If you wish to go over that limit, pay more, pack less, or travel a different airline! If too many people go to a competitor, the market will adjust.

Otherwise...
Should smaller airlines/helicopters that have to seat by weight not be allowed to charge more, because it's discriminatory? Should the airline have to fly at a loss, because the aren't allowed to weight passengers, or charge heavy passengers more?

Example: Tour plance, where passengers up to 400lbs can fly safely (and fit)in the seat - but that doesn't mean the airplane itself can physically haul every seat (or even half) full of 400lb people. Should they have to take 2/3rds the people, and operate at a loss? I don't get it...

But again, it's I'll just personal opinion. For now, I just try to specifically buy on planes I know will have empty seats, fly on non-busy days (Tues/Weds), and if necessary, buy an extra seat - which I've done 3 times when traveling with another big person.

You make good points Linda. (Posted my last post before your got posted). That's why I say the market will adjust... :) For small airplanes (19 passenger or less) it does make sense to weigh people sometimes - 747, A340, 737? I don't think so... LOL

But I guess I think the airline should have the right, if they want to give it a try... :)

Skipping for a moment the fact that the suggestion is stupid, insulting and legally actionable, let us consider another, and I think, more fair approach. I think the charge for a seat should be based on intelligence. One could bring their own verified IQ test, such as Mensa menbership, to get the cheapest fare. (I'd say free for Mensa members.) Or, one could take a "Cultural Intelligence Test". Something simple and fast that changes every day or even ever traveler. For example, "Name the first triumvirant of Roma?, or Who was Michelangelo's first patron and his nickname? or perhaps, What was the profession of the father of Raphael's mistress?" That would also tend to reduce crowding and speed loading of the plane. Oh, and keep a lot of ignorant Americans at home who only go to Europe to party or shop. How about a vote?

HOW is this legally actionable?

Refer to my earlier clothes example? Should I be able to sue every clothing manufacturer and retailer in the United States for charging more for big men's clothes?

Even if I weren't overweight, I didn't chose to be born with 64" shoulders. Should their not charging me the same for my clothes be actionable???

(I fail to see that.)

Fact is, my clothes cost more to make, and I pay more for them. I don't see charging more for them as stupid, insulting or actionable. I find it practical.

PS - I'm all for fewer less intelligent Americans traveling... but then it means I'd have to stay home. ;)

I just realized that someone here is baiting others to argue...I think I'll stop. I don't like arguing with a fool.

"This is such an absurd business idea that any airline trying it would be out of business so fast."

Which is exactly my point about the market correcting itself. Except for rare cases (extremely large people, and small planes), I don't think it is.

But I still think an airline should have the right to try it, and I don't think doing so is discriminatory.

That pretty much sums up all I have to say about the issue.