Optimum rail travel on scenic routes in Switzerland/Italy

Purnima, What is the time frame of this trip? Are they going to stay in Zurich and Lucerne two days each, or is that the time for both cities? I'd suggesting dropping Zurich and spending the time in Lucerne. One thing to keep in mind when travelling with a Railpass is that the Pass DOES NOT include reservation fees, which are compulsory on some trains (usually the fast trains). I'd have to spend some time working on a better schedule, but this Itinerary is WAY too busy IMHO. Good luck!

You really have some distances between these places but please permit some suggestions. Both Lola and Ken are very good at this so you will have to decide. Day 1 - arrive Paris. Night 1 Paris. Day 2 - Skip Zurich/Lucerne. They are very nice but you only have 8-10 days. Instead, head right for the Berner-Oberland. Take the high-speed French TGV train to Geneva (3.5hrs). Most likely, your parents would need to be on the 07:09 train to make the 13:55 last Golden Pass train at Montreux. Change for train to Montreux. Ride the Golden Pass scenic train to Interlaken Ost (13:55 departure). Arrive Interlaken Ost at 16:30. In my opinion, this ride is the best of the Golden Pass. You'll change trains twice along the way. At Interlaken Ost, take the 20-minute ride on the local Jungfraubahn train to Lauterbrunnen. Most likely, your parents will arrive in the early evening. Night 2 - Stay at the Hotel Silberhorn (www.silberhorn.com). It's about 500 feet from the train station. My wife and I have stayed there. Very convenient. Great stay, great food. Day 3 - Tour the Berner-Oberland (Murren, Gimmelwald and perhaps one of the mountain tops (Schilthorn or Jungfrau). Night 3 - Stay at Hotel Silberhorn. Now, you have choices. More scenic trains or depart Switzerland. To get from Interlaken Ost to St. Moritz for the Bernina Express will take 6.5hrs. You could go another route down to Brig and take the Glacier Express to St. Moritz. That journey will take 8.5hrs. You can begin to see the large amount of train time to see these places. I'm suggesting that on the morning of Day 4, you consider departing Switzerland for the CT. You will travel via Milan and Genoa. The journey will take 7.0hrs with 3 train changes. It would be the same time and number of train changes if you went to Venice. I'm suggesting the CT first. See Next Message.

Night 4 - Stay in the CT. Day 5 - See 4 of the towns (Corniglia is up on a cliff). Hike the trail between Riomaggiore and Manarola (very flat and easy). Have lunch in one of the many great places to eat. Night 5 - Stay in the CT. Moring of Day 6 - Take the 07:52 train departing La Spezia for Venice. Your parents will change trains in Bologna. If your parents are staying in the CT, they will have to plan carefully to get an early train to La Spezia to make the run. This is one of the fastest runs of the day to Venice. You arrive at about 14:00. You can store your luggage in the staffed left luggage area in the train station. Begin touring Venice right away. You have all afternoon and evening. My wife and I have been on this train run and we did exactly as I describe above. By evening, we did quite a bit. We stayed in Venice for 3 nights but I'm suggesting on two for your parents. Night 6 and night 7. On the morning of Day 8, depart Venice for Florence. This is a 2-hr train ride on the high-speed. Night 8 and night 9 in Florence. Aarrgg. I'm running out of time. On the morning of Day 10, depart Florence for Rome. Journey time is 1hr40min on the high-speed. Night 10 and night 11 in Rome. Early on Day 12, fly your parents back to Paris. It's 16 hours by train. If you need to trim 2 days off of the trip, I would suggest eliminating the CT and head directly for Venice from Switzerland. This trip is probably not the cheapest trip (we've done longer versions of it). But, no night trains and hopefully, many of train runs are not over a few hours.

Hi, I agree, they are in their 70s. I think I will have to drop the Bernina express. That this out of the way. I was re-routing- Paris to venice, night train. Overnight in Venice. Ride from Venice to Genoa to Rome. Overnight in Rome, then overnight Rome to Lausanne. From Lausanne they can make their way up leisurely up to Lucern via Montreux/Interlaken and then back to Paris. They are so excited!!

Is there a particular reason you are having your parents go from Venice to Rome via Genoa? That's a long ride. They can take a direct EuroStar Alta Velocita train in less than four hours. How many days will they be in Rome?

Do I read above that you are intending to have your 70-yr old parents go on what I call a "Blink and Run" journey? Blink at a site for a few hours and then run for the train. Plus, you trade some hotels for an overnight train. I would suggest as a 70-yr old person myself, a "lifetime thing" or not, this is OK for people in their twenties but not in their 70s. We travel extensively but we long ago gave up on the blink and runs. It's exhausting.

Larry, you are absoultely right. I just wanted them to see the goldenpass, Bernina, Cinque de Terre..How can I simplify this? Their total duration is 8-10 days and will only include Paris, Switzerland and Italy. We have a home in Paris which will be their base. They can even split the two trips up. Thanks to all..

Purnima, your parents can't really "experience" Cinque Terre by train[INVALID]-the tracks run through tunnels for much of the way. They need to get off the train and spend a night in one of the towns there. And I would suggest the Bernina Express over the Golden Pass[INVALID]-it's right on their path into Italy. If they are looking for beautiful scenery, they could break up that journey with an overnight at Varenna (it's on Lake Como, between Tirano and Milan). So they could do something like this: train Paris to Luzern, spend 2 nights; Bernina Epxress to Tirano, and on to Varenna to spend the night; train via Milan and Genoa to Cinque Terre and spend 2 nights; train to Rome for 2 nights, train to Venice for 2 nights; fly back to Paris from Venice. But keep in mind that they are going to have to manage their own bags on and off the trains, and from the train to the taxis to reach their hotels. And you'll have to select a Cinque Terre hotel carefully, to find one they can reach without a lot of stair-climbing or a steep uphill walk.

Purnima, Given the VERY short time frame of only 10 days and the age of your parents, you might consider something along these lines [I formatted differently due to Helpline problems - hopefully you can read this]: Paris CDG to Venice VCE via EasyJet / Venice to Rome via ES/AV, 3H:46M [why do you want to route via Genoa??? I'd suggest a quicker route] / Rome to Milano via ES/AV, 2H:59M then Milano to Tirano, 2H:30M / Bernina Express to Chur / one night in Chur / train to Lucerne, 2H:09M / train to Montreaux or Lausanne / Lausanne to Paris via TGV, 3H:41M [there's a direct train departing 09:22 - schedules subject to change]. There are several ways this could be arranged, and this route needs a bit of "fine tuning". This is the way I'd structure the trip. Good luck!

I am so overwhelmed with gratitude for all the thought everyone has put in the responses. We finally-maybe- have scaled it to: Paris to Geneva 7.09, to Montreux, then Interlaken with a 1 night stay. Next day-tour Grindelwald, Jungfrau. Leave for Lucern by late pm, spend one night and the next day there. Next day go to Zurich, catch the train to Venice via Milan. I read that ride is fairly scenic. I still have the option of Bernina at this point with a night in Milan. Venice, a night, to Rome for a night or two, back to Paris by air. Cinque terre maybe too much given my mom's arthritis. They are happy to cover the big cities. They feel the train switching from Zurich to Chur, Tirano is too much for them. I am really not sure how that connection is set up, we are just going by our train experiences in India..sheer chaos!

That looks very reasonable. And as much as I love Cinque Terre, I think you are wise to leave it out. That journey involves lots of train changes and lots of walking once you arrive there. One comment about the train to Milan[INVALID]-from Luzern, they don't need to go to Zurich to catch that train. They can pick it up in Arth-Goldau, which is much closer (and the station is small and easier to manage than th emain zurich station). This is a scenic route (Zurich to Milan via Gotthard) even if it doesn't have a "scenic" designation. It goes along Lake Lucerne before ascending the mountains, and in places you can catch glimpses of hanging glaciers and waterfalls.

Well now Purnima you will not be convicted of killing both of your parents by sheer exhaustion. You say Grindlewald, not Gimmelwald. Not a dyed in the blood RSer then eh? Gimmelwald equals beauty. Grindlewald equals nice Swiss town but not much there.

How do they get to Gimmelwald from Interlaken, I know Grindelwald is easy to get to, so I picked it. I know how much RS loves Gimmelwald.

Purnima, Gimmelwald is so small you won't believe it. But it's really scenic. From Grindlewald, you can take the cog train (2 rails and a cog-rail in the middle) down to the Lauterbrunnen train station. From the Lauterbrunnen train station, you go across the street to the post office/gondola stop (about 200'). At the post office, there is a bus stop. You take the bus to the end of the line which will be the Stechelberg gondola station. You will see the gondola. That gondola will take you to Gimmelwald. Also in the Gimmelwald gondola station on top there is an adjacent gondola station that will take you to Murren. It's all really great. For your adventures in the Berner-Oberland, you really should have Swiss Francs or a credit card. For the bus, you can buy the tickets on board or I think you can buy them in the post office. We bought them on board the bus.

From Interlaken to Grindelwald is a short train ride with no changes. From Interlaken to Gimmelwald, they would first take a short train ride to Lauterbrunnen. There, they have a choice: either (1) ride a bus up the valley to Stechelberg, and then ride a cablecar up to Gimmelwald, or (2) ride a cablecar straight up from Lauterbrunnen to Grutschalp, ride a train the short distance to Mürren, and walk down to the cablecar station to take the cablecar down to Gimmelwald. They can go up to Gimmelwald by one route and back down by the other, making a nice loop trip from Lauterbrunnen. The ccablecars are large and sturdy (the size of a small room) and very fun and scenic.

Purnima, the others have provided great information on the route to Gimmelwald from Interlaken. They'll travel on the small Berner Oberland train from Interlaken Ost to Lauterbrunnen, and once there they'll have two possible routes. I prefer the Post Bus (bright yellow) to Stechelberg (it's only about a 15 minute trip) and then the spectacular and steep Cable Car ride to Gimmelwald (it's the first stop). Were they planning to stay a night in Gimmelwald? From Gimmelwald they could take the Cable Car to the next village, Murren. It's an incredible scenic Swiss village and well worth a stop. If they want to continue on the Cable Cars, they could visit the Schilthorn & Piz Gloria, where the James Bond movie "On Her Majesty's Secret Service" was partially filmed a number of years ago (I can assure you, the facility DIDN'T explode!). There's a revolving restaurant there, and it's fantastic to enjoy a fine hot meal while watching the Eiger, Monch & Jungfrau pass by the windows! If they're interested, they could make a brief stop in Interlaken. It's a beautiful "old world" type of city, and used to be popular with the rich & famous. Cheers!

Purnima, one additional comment..... If your parents have not used the rail systems in Europe before, it would be a good idea to perhaps download the free PDF Rail Guide from this website (click on the "Railpasses" tab at the top). They'll be changing trains several times on some trips, and this can be a bit confusing for those that haven't done it before. If they're travelling with reserved seats, they'll have to deal with the names for "car" and "seat" in different languages, and also the word for "track". As I may have mentioned previously, some of their trips will require compulsory reservations, even though they're using a Railpass. You can research which ones those are by using the www.bahn.de website. DON'T BE CAUGHT without a valid reservation in Italy (if required) as they'll be fined ON THE SPOT (trust me, I know). One VERY IMPORTANT piece of advice - tell them to PACK LIGHT!!!

regarding your latest revised schedule- I would skip Zurich. Doeesnt add anything other than one more exhausting train ride and change. Take the advice to go direct from Lucerne