Ongoing trouble with DB German rail - horror for all passengers

Yes! We're finally going to see Lee sporting himself around in a car.

Say it ain't so, DB. Amtrak looks well managed in comparison now.

Don't hold you breath, Ed. I'm sure they'll get this fixed before I go back.

Fortunately this IPO nonsense should not affect regional trains, which are what I usually use, since they have already been spun off into ÖPNVs.

BTW, I was in Germany in 2008 when a lot of the ICEs were out or service due to poorly manufactured wheels. Because of different equipment my reserved seats didn't exist, but there were plenty of seats available.

Hopefully all this will discourage people from taking the IPO, and German Rail will stay as it is. I don't understand how the Germans, after seeing the British ruin rail travel in that country by privatizing it, would ever consider doing the same thing.

Lee, you got lucky. Most ICEs are really full even on a good day. Every single one we took between Christmas and into the New Year had people standing in the aisles. And we did NOT travel on the route Berlin-Munich that had 50% of their ICEs cancelled at the time due to maintenance issues in icy weather.

Regional Trains are fine if you only want to explore a small area. One of the Laender, let's say. But even on trip of 500 km (many tourists here have itineraries with much longer distances) choosing regional trains only will take you an extra 6 hours or more on many routes. That's a lot of time spent inside a vehicle instead of exploring the country. And let me tell you, there were many times there was nothing to see looking out because it was still or already dark or foggy or the view impacted by noise barriers. And after pointing out "Schreber" gardens for the third time my kids are only yawning ...

It is really a pity to see what is happening with DB nowadays compared to what it was 20-25 years ago. If the time assessment is accurate with the ICE trains, then it might adversely affect my travel plans this summer. Those are the ones I usually take. How often and tedious it is to hear your or another train is late nowadays..."hat Verspaetung" or "ist verzoegert." Unless my memory fails me, I don't recall this 25-30 years ago.

Lee is right...why do the Germans see the solution in privatisation?

It seems like it was a tough year last year, for both the DB, and also for the ÖBB (Austrian Rail), even though for different reasons.
In Austria a huge project to modernize the train stations and rail system is under way, which caused delays and changes in routes.
I was at times ready to pull my hair out, getting to Vienna from Krems/Wachau: usually a pleasant 1 hr ride in a climatized, ultra modern commuter train, took changing trains and finding alternate routes, at times doubling traveling time.
But now that the new Danube bridge in Tulln has been installed, things have gone back to normal for me at least, and I sure know how to appreciate it!

Train stations in Vienna and Salzburg are still construction sites, but fairly organized ones.
One absolutely marvelous addition is the high speed Railjet, Budapest - Vienna - St. Pölten - Salzburg - Munich. Good stuff!

While traveling to and within Germany the past year, I was shocked at the delays and general confusion, and decided to grin and bear our Austrian situation more gracefully and patient. It was a bit of a shock to discover that we Austrians have a leg up on the Germans in matters of rail organization! lol

But knowing the Germans, they will get a handle on it eventually. Since they have passed a law that you can get refunds on your tickets if you are inconvenienced by delays, and DB is paying through the nose to soothe upset travelers . .

If you plan to travel by rail in Austria this coming year, I urge you to peruse the Austrian Rail site ÖBB for information, not DB, so you can be sure to be informed about changes in schedule and stations!
http://www.oebb.at/pv/en/index.jsp

Lee,

we booked ICEs to go from the Muensterland region to Leipzig and Berlin (Interconnex inbetween, cheap and punctual but also crowded) and back. Both trips were 5-6 Hours by ICE, would have been 12-13 hours with regional trains.

Regional trains work great for the regional area, for shopping trips, commuters ... or if you have more time than money on your hands.

I should add that even with more delays as there should be the service is quite acceptable at DB. We received a 25% rebate on our ICE tickets with a delay of 60+ minutes. You don't see that with airline delays.

Wow. It is dissappointing to hear that. I've told people time and again that you may not know if the sun will rise tomorrow, but you can rest assured that if a German train is scheduled to arrive at 07:04... then it will.

Corinna --- Still under construction?? The Vienna Sudbahnhof and Westbahnhof were both under heavy construction when I lived there in 1992... and still when I visited in 1999... and in 2003... I thought I just had bad timing. Are they under perpetual construction?

"Regional Trains are fine if you only want to explore a small area."

That is generally what I do.

I've been on only 6 ICEs, ever. One, between Christmas and New Years, was SRO. I came back and took that same train a few years later in March. There were three others with me in the entire coach. The other five ICEs had plenty of seats.

However, 6 hours more! Not in my experience.

A few years ago my wife and I made a "grand tour" of southern Germany. We started in Stuttgart, went to Rothenburg, Berchtesgaden, Oberallgäu, Lindau RT, Ulm, Sigmaringen, and back to Stuttgart. Overall, we spent 1½ hr longer, total, with regional trains than we would have with express trains. One day, using express train actually would have taken longer because of connection timing.

Jim,

the Südbahnhof is no more! It has been completely demolished to make room for the new Vienna Hauptbahnhof! All things considered logistically, it makes perfect sense.
In typical Viennes fashion, there was a huge 'Urban Distruction' party, replete with celebrities, dancing, refreshments and speeches, days before they reduced it to rubble ;-)) Hipper and bigger than the Opernball.

The Westbahnhof restauration is in Phase III, but functioning remarkably well under the circumstances. I am curious myself when it will be finished, lol! I am hoping to live to see the day ;-))

Lee,
that's beauty of our systems, isn't it?

While crucially important, primary rail lines make it possible to travel efficiently from major city to major city, from country to country,
but the secondary, local, regional systems are the true life-lines and life blood of travel within Europe.

I looked up the websites for three German language newspapers (Bild, Welt, and Süddeutsche Zeitung). The first two said nothing about delays on the Bahn, although Welt did have something about an hour long delay on the highway near Hamburg because of weather. Süddeutsche Zeitung mentioned delays with the Bahn due to weather (trains between Belgium and Koeln canceled) and having to de-ice ICEs, and also some ICEs out of service due to the manufacturing problems with the wheels on ICE-3s and ICE-Ts, but nothing was said about what Andreas indicated.

OK, maybe you went from a small town in Muensterland, which took a while to get to Muenster, but that extra time would probably apply to either express train or regional trains.

According to the Bahn, time from Muenster to Berlin by regional train, 7h40m.

Time from Muenster to Leipzig by regional train, 7h19m.

Where did you get this 12-13 hr crap?

Yes, in 2008, I did go from Cochem to Bad Harzburg using two ICEs (Cochem to Koeln and Koeln to Bad Harzburg). But, as I said, there were seats available on all of them.

Well, usually I like the ease of use with the DB website. But yesterday it really did give me those 12-13 hour times for whatever reason ... Today it's just under 8.

A lot can be said for using trains in Europe and Germany in particular. Definitely an experience that's worth giving a try. But it's not always as cheap as you expect nor is it always painless.

Even if we had chosen the "cheaper" regional trains it probably would have been more than the scheduled 2 hours longer considering that there were 4 train changes and thus an increased risk of missing a connection. Some of the regional trains run on single tracks which also increases the risk of a delay when the train you're sitting in has to wait for an oncoming train to pass - which we experienced twice.

German train stations are built very efficiently making it easy to change tracks. But if a 6 minute layover is reduced to 30 sec. or more likely -2 min. that's not going to work. Your connecting train may wait for a slightly delayed IC/E but not for a mere regional train.

And Dutch trains definitely won't wait for a delayed DB train: "we never wait for a German train" was literally the response we got in Enschede when asking for an alternate route after a missed connection. Not that the Dutch train we took 20 min later was punctual ...

Lee, I admire you for promoting the German railway system. But educating tourists about these options should not minimize some of the trouble they might run into AND how to address them with the least amount of stress.

ICEs have the advantage that some connecting trains will actually wait if the delay is not excessive. Also: you find information on the seat with possible connections in the cities you're passing through. That really helped us making alternate choices when the announcement came that the train was already running 45 min and later 90 min late. It also allowed us to call ahead to arrange for a different pick-up at the destination.

Over the years and on different trips, I have taken the trains in Sweden, England, Poland, Austria, France, Czech Repubic (pre- and post 1989), W/Germany, Beligium, and, lastly, Holland. In spite of DB's problems with delay--you get tired of hearing, "Wir bitten um Ihr Verstaendnis"--I still prefer DB's system and riding its trains the best of all.

It is unnerving at times when your train is late or the connecting train. There are still two good features about having to transfer trains, especially when both are ICE, it's on the same platform, and the connecting ICE will wait for your train, as pointed out above...that was something I did not know last summer when transfering in Nurnberg going from Berlin to Wien. It was a pleasant surprise.

Because of DB's present problems with delays, occurring much more frequently in the last decade, I try working around it now by taking a direct shot whenever possible, even though in reference to time it may not be so convenient. In the past I did not mind transfering trains in Germany, now I try to avoid it.

Though I love the trains here and usually do not have much of a problem with them, there have been a few times where we sat in the aisles. Mostly because there was a mechanical problem, they would stop somewhere and everyone would have to get off the train and get on another train. This of course causes massive overcrowding. Not pleasant at all. The last time our train was overly delayed, we did get vouchers to use for a discount. For those leaving the country though, this wouldn't be a good compensation.

This is why I recommend that people not plan big train trips on the day they fly. I see this all the time, people are told to just take the train from Paris the day you fly out of Frankfurt. Sorry, this is not a good plan. One should be semi-close to whatever city you fly out of, not 2-3 hours away by train.