#4 The guy who still thinks its ok to recline in coach.

Reclining your seat in coach may be annoying to some, but it is "OK". As long as the airlines don't prevent the seat from reclining, they have sold you a seat with the ability to recline it. That's your space.

What isn't OK is for the person who has (knowingly) purchased a ticket for a seat too small for him to expect others to sit bolt upright in their seats to accommoodate his size.

The same goes for people who are too obese to fit between the armrests and insists on raising them so they can have part of your seat.

Hey, if you are too tall or too fat for a coach seat, that's not my problem. Buy a first class ticket.

Kristen, LOL! I've definitely encountered passengers that fit most of those descriptions over the years, and I'm sure that will also be the case in future. I'll be heading away for a short mid-winter break next week, so may be meeting some of these individuals sooner than expected!

Perhaps the one that bothers me the most is #12. I've been on more than a few flights with people that seem to think their importance in the business world outweighs the rest of the people on the flight. I can recall one flight with two "business types" who were still talking long after the announcements to turn off all Cell phones was made. The Flight crew refused to close the door and "set the wheels in motion" for takeoff, and made it quite clear they were waiting for these morons to comply with the rules. When they finally ended the calls, they apologized to whomever they were talking to with somewhat of an air of annoyance (as if to say, I'm important, those rules don't apply to me). While the takeoff was only a few minutes past our posted departure time, the inconsiderate should realize that often flights are carefully choreographed between airports, and if we were too late it may complicate the whole process.

I've also encountered #9 on a few occasions, and wondered what those fortunate individuals thought of the rest of us that were sitting in the "cheap seats" behind them. I've never been able to afford to fly first class or business class, but sure would be nice to try it sometime to see things from "the other side". I'd like to think that I wouldn't behave like those described in #9.

Thanks for posting that!

Kristen, one more comment.....

Another situation I've encountered is complaints from the person in the next seat regarding my "intrusion" into her space and my arm on the armrest. The complaints seemed to be mostly about my shoulders, but unfortunately there's not much I can do to change my shoulder width. If I had leaned to the left, I would have been intruding into the aisle and would have been "smacked" by the food cart and other passengers moving up and down the aisles. As far as the armrest, the seating arrangement meant we had to share that and I had to put my right forearm somewhere.

I try to be considerate to those sitting next to me, but I didn't seem to be able to win in that situation.

Cheers!

Lee, I agree with you. I will be reclining my seat, 10 hours sitting upright will be too unfortable. But I will make sure that person behind me is not eating or conducting business on computer etc... We fly out at 7:20 PM from PHX to London, so hopefully everyone will be sleeping, including me.

Can we add those people who make a mess in the bathroom (men and women) and then do not clean it up. EEEK, this grosses me out the most.

Actually, the fact that seats recline so far back is nuts. I can see putting them back just a little bit, but all the way? Uh, no. If I had the money to fly first class, I would, believe me. But the person in front of me does NOT have the right to lay their seat in my lap. If they do, then I have the right to bang my knees over and over on their seat.

Oh, boy, we're complaining. I choose to fly in aisle seats, always seated #4 on United. Invariably a person with a #3 boarding pass arrives after I have sat, and I am required to get up for them. I also love the person on the flight before mine who spilled their soft drink or juice on the floor so that my feet stuck during my entire flight. I have flown next to people who will not exchange a polite "hello." (Maybe they think I am the gabby #3 from Kristen's rant) And how about that young couple with the cutest child who screamed, as only a small child can scream, the entire trip. She wasn't unhappy, she just screamed about once a minute for 10 hours.

Swan, this is not intended to be a rant. Just something to give us a few laughs.

All of these can be nicely summarized as "The person who seems completely oblvious to the fact that 100+ other human beings are on the same flight."

6 is freaking me out a little. I always bring a neck pillow with me on every flight. It never occurred to me that it would bother anyone???? What exactly is the issue with them?

Michael, I didn't write them, just copied from internet, but I did delated the name of the religion added to #6 out of respect to everyone on this board. I knew that this one would hit a nerve of a few out there.

Ah yes, the mysterious neck pillow religion. I was wondering about that.

Ok, I know its been since 1988 since I flew to Europe (Flew to RI and CA on Southwest), but just how much are the seats reclining these days. On flights I have been on, the seat only reclined like an inch, maybe two. Not really making that much of a difference. From what I read, it sound like I will have to lie on the floor of the plane to watch the entertainment screen on the back of the seat in front of me, because the seat is reclined into my lap.

I used the word "rant" in the most fun-loving positive way. I'm enjoying this thread. I forgot to mention the person sitting behind me who heavily grabbed the back of my seat each time she got up, frequently. I'm resisting the urge to introduce the windowshades-open vs closed discussion.

I love #12 about the cell phone. One time someone sitting near me turned off their cell phone when the flight attendant walked by and then looked around and turned it back on turned it over. I called him out- I told him his cell phone needed to be turned off and he claimed it was, I said no I just saw you turn it on and turn it over to hide it.

But yes it really annoys me people can be so selfish and don't think the rules apply to them about their cell phones

Oops, guess I am a #1! (Although I have been flying since I was a baby.) Seriously, I take a few pics(under a dozen), but I like getting pictures of the plane trip, too, because it's part of the whole trip's diary of pictures.

I would probably add people who don't keep their small children belted through most of the trip. My kids don't like being buckled up the whole time, either, but ever heard of severe turbulence (or worse)?

Swan - I was thinking of the window shades open v. closed issue as I was reading this. And my gripe is having a window seat and being told...I CAN'T LOOK OUT THE WINDOW!

So, I throw this issue into the mix. Bring eyeshades, people!

A follow-up to Travelfan....on our evening flight from Paris to Stockholm in July (we left at 10 PM) I had the window seat, my wife the middle and another gentleman the aisle seat. He had his coat over his head for a good portion of the flight. We figured he was just sleeping and trying to block out any light and some of the noise. Well, part way through the flight my wife noticed he was using his cell phone! Not sure about the reception, but he had it on a few different times! Needless to say, that was one of the more interesting experiences on that flight. It was like a Seinfeld episode the entire flight.

They forgot the worst of all--THE GUM CHEWERS. It might be okay if gum chewers could manage to chew quietly with their mouths closed, but that seems to be beyond their skills.

It is people like Lee - "It's my space" - who do all of the other things on the list. If everyone had that same inconsiderate attitude flying would be even more stressful than it already is.

I am with Lee on this, it IS my space and I will recline my seat, and the simple fact is ,, if you recline YOUR seat you will have the exact same amount of space as if both seats were upright. Duh.
I have never found the persons seat reclined in front of me to be a big problem,, doesn't bother me in the least. Some of you apparently have been on airlines with luxury reclining seats, I have had at the most 3 or 4 inches of recline on any flight I have taken on maybe 6 or 7 different airlines.

Flights to Europe from the west coast all seem to be red eyes, so other then meal service, my seat is reclined.

Neck pillows, what is the problem with those, that doesn't bother me either, gosh people seem to complain about anything that makes someone comfortable.. a pillow for goodness sake!

PS

MY pet peeve, if you PEE on the toilet seat wipe it up slob or slobette. Thats just piggy.

Not everyone can sleep on the plane flying to Europe. Some people like to work, or watch the movie on the screen in front of them, on the back of the seat that you just reclined. Some people are playing games or coloring with their children to keep them from crying or screaming, and therefore are not sleeping and also need the tray in front of them. I am one of those people that just cannot sleep, so yes, I have various activities to occupy my time during the flight.

Assuming that people have flown with "luxury" reclining seats just because they do not want a tray shoved into their stomach while flying, is a bit over the top. Perhaps you folks have always had nice people sitting in front of you who have never reclined their seat all the way.

Being aware of the people that are around you and behaving in a way that you would want them to behave, is what the main point here is. That famous, "do unto others as you would have them do unto you" statement.

Jeff, my husband is 6'4', my sons are 6 and 6'1,, they are uncomfortable no matter what, but, that is the airlines fault, not the person in front of you.
My husband has found that arriving before check in, and being one of the first in line often gets him the exit row seat, ( more leg room) , he also has paid the extra 50 bucks for it,, it is worth it when you are that tall.

re: why first class passengers don't look at you,,

I have flown first class twice, once when upgraded on a domestic flight( Toronto -Vancouver) because of something the airline screwed up, and once, I paid for it as a treat after a horrible year with death in the family etc. ( to Paris).

I was ashamed to look at the suffering of my fellow plane mates, I knew how awful the next 10 hours would be for them,, and while I paid cash and worked hard for my 1st class ticket( unlike some who perhaps have work pay for it, or points because they travel alot for work) I still felt terribly guilty,,I didn't want to look like I was "gloating" as I felt so very lucky,,I loved 1st class, but will likely never enjoy it again , ah well. There is always the chance of a lottery win.

No Jo, I doubt very much whether I just have never had anyone recline fully in front of me,, thats highly unlikely in over 30-40 or so flights don't you think, not a likely situation. . Have you ever flown from the west coast of Canada to Europe? It takes at LEAST the 10 hour flight not inlcuding layovers.

I have also never flown to Europe with tvs in the seat in front of me, only to the Caribbean. Must be nice that you have had that type of entertainment so often that you assume it is common.. I realize many airlines are phasing it in, but my last flights to Europe have been Air Canada, Zoom, or British Air and none of them had that on the planes I took. I think AC is fitting it into some flights, but my last trip with them was 2 yrs ago and they didn't offer it then.

And I have flown with kids, and never had them up for the entire 10-12 hour flight overnight,, wow, I can imagine some children would be grumpy if kept up all night. I personally would be ill to stay up 24 hours, as I said flights from here are red eyes.

I have never had anyone complain either, as they have their seats back too, it does not make sence to sit upright overnight for 10 hours, it seems a bit odd. Also , on every flight I have been to Europe on they do not show movies all night, at some point the lights are turned down and you are supposed to basically go to sleep or stop disturbing the passengers around you.. staying up all night playing with children could keep other people awake couldn't it??? Did your kids really stay up all night? Or is your situation perhaps different then mine?

Basically, other then dirty toilets I don't have much to complain about on my flights, the seats are cramped no matter what, so its live and let live, and I not mind people reclining in front of me,, what else can they do??

I did not say that kids were up the entire night, but they do wake up and they are not on the same schedule as usual. Yes, they get grumpy, that is why you need to occupy them in a quiet manner. Flying from Canada is not special. What do you think people flying from Australia do? Or California? Or Asia? I have never been on a flight where the movie went off. There is always something on. Everyone is on different time schedules, the airlines do not just turn out the lights and say and "now it is time for all of you to go to sleep". As to the movie screens on the seats, yes, it is becoming more common, but I have only had that with one airline. Wish it was more, as I quite enjoyed it. Got to watch tv shows I had never seen before, since I have lived overseas for so many years. We have always flown in economy coach, have never had an upgrade and I can only dream of flying business class, let alone flying often to visit family. I am lucky to make it back every 3-4 years or so, due to the price of plane tickets.

On our flight from Atlanta to Amsterdam we were sitting across from a woman who was part of a group of missionaries. Very nice woman. However she was extremely obese to the point of she obviously couldnt fit in the restroom. She had to have been wearing depends because halfway thru the flight the odor was so offensive. The woman next to her kept getting up and talking to the flight attendants.At one point she didnt return. I think they let her sit in thier compartment.
I felt sorry for the obese woman but then again she should have takebn into account her size and situation.

I felt compelled to post a response to this topic after noticing a statement that equated taller people with obese people. My own opinion, albeit biased as a taller gentleman, is that they are apples and oranges. For the most part an obese individual is a lifestyle choice whereas a tall individual is a genetic issue. As someone who does fly frequently it is an issue very important to me.

I'm one of those people who get in the empty seat next to you at the last minute because I fly standby. With small children. And a car seat. Believe me, I'd much rather get on the plane earlier, but that's not how the system works.

And I'm all for reclining your seats a bit, but do be considerate of those behind you. If my child in her car seat is behind you and you recline all the way, you'll squish her little legs.

Wait, does all this make me an annoying passenger?

Maureen, , could you please tell me which airline has seats that recline so far that anyone would "squish their little legs" by reclining,, you guys must have great planes. I have never seen a seat recline more then a few inches..

Jo, I imagine people from California and Australia put their seats back and go to sleep. I seriously doubt we will find anyone from Australia saying they do not its a 20 hour plus flight, ... California, well perhaps someone does stay awake for the long red eye, but I bet most try to go to sleep, and they do that reclining.
I did not say flying from Canada was "special" ( why would you use that term?) I do say flying from the west coast of Canada (my experiences) is a lot farther and longer then flying from east coast of the States... where do you fly from ?? I really think you are trying to compare the two . A daytime 6 or 7 hours( or less) is not the same as a 10-12 hour red eye Jo.

As for your never being on a plane where they do not turn the lights down, then that is simply becuase you have not been on a long enough red eye. They do turn down lights, and the movies do not play all night( I did not say they turn a movie off in mid showing,,??) I have flown to Europe every year for the last 4, and then intermittently before, about like you do now .

I like #9 the best..."Everyone in first class." Who do those people think they are, paying outrageous cash for comfortable seats while the rest of us suffer in "steerage?" And then when you walk by shlepping your Costco carry-on luggage, they won't even be bothered to give you the slightest meaningful, soul-searching glance. I mean, when I get on an airplane with 350 other people for three hours, I want to come out of there with 350 new friends! I want to know everything about them. I want to laugh, I want to cry, I want the entire flight to be like a long version of "Ten Angry Men," except with a wider selection of beverages and some pretzels.

What this list is missing but is sorely needed is this: #14 The person who can't wait their turn to get off the airplane. Seriously...I'm in just as much of a hurry to get off as the next person. I've been listening to that cretin scream the whole flight too. I don't even have to grab a carry-on bag from the overhead, I just need the people in the rows in front of me to head down the aisle so I can follow them. So you, Mr. Shove-My-Way-Through-Life, who failed to notice that just because your fellow passengers haven't been crouching toward the aisle with their heads awkwardly slammed against the overhead doesn't mean they aren't ready to go, will enjoy my crossing guard stiff-arm as I allow my family and me and any others in our rows to exit in a normal manner.

And for #15 I suggest the passengers who applaud when the plane lands ! Yes, this happens all the time on flights that leave for Paris or London from Montreal. I always want to yell, "Hey, the pilot is supposed to land safely. It's his job, for Pete's Sake!" Or maybe they are just applauding themselves for being so clever as to go abroad.

To Pat, who says: "if you recline YOUR seat you will have the exact same amount of space as if both seats were upright. Duh. I have never found the persons seat reclined in front of me to be a big problem."
I don't know how tall you are or what aircraft you have flown on but I can tell you that as a 6'2" man who has flown quite a bit that when most seats recline they actually reduce the knee space of the person seated behind. When my knees are already touching the seat pocket and the person ahead of me tries to recline the seat "only" 3 or 4 inches I have a problem. So if you are sitting if front of me don't be surprised if your seat seems to be broken when you try to recline it. It isn't, but now you are trying to invade the I paid for and I don't want you to do it. And if you somehow do get your seat back far enough that your head is in MY space don't be surprised if the air is blowing full blast on you.

When a kid is in a car seat, they're higher up and farther out than if they were sitting in a regular seat, so there's not a lot of room between them and the seat to start with.

Did anyone explain what's offensive about neck pillows (No.6),or did I miss it? I use a neck pillow, it didn't occur to me that it could upset anyone else. I mean, I don't drool into it or anything (well, I hope I don't!).

I never understood the applauding after a safe landing...what would those same passengers do if the plane crashed? Boo?

Personally, I think there should be a "children free' section of every airplane. It would be just a few rows where anyone under 12 would be banned. Children have as much right to fly as anyone, but I also have a right not to have to listen to a baby crying in my ear, or a kid kicking the back of my seat, for 10 straight hours.

Then, there should be a law against anyone eating a spicy or garlicky or curry type meal 24 hours prior to a flight. Hey folks, I have to sit next to you and it isn't pleasant. Would you like me have a big helping of Chili and Beans?

Adding to the above, mints should be available at all check in counters. Hey, I don't mind a conversation, but I have to sit next to you and breathe.

As to why people in first class never look at the coach passengers as they enter..

I get to fly FC often--thanks of a plethora of FF miles. It's not that we think we are better, nor do we feel guilty...we're just so busy checking the wine list that we don't have time to look at you.

Budget travel had a message board a few months ago about having a "kids only" section to planes. Based on the comments there and here, seems like if we're going to put kids in a different section, we're also going to have to create sections for smelly people, loud people, armrest stealers....

The most annoying one to me is #7 - people who think they can bring more than one carry-on or one that is obviously too big, and then spend a lot of time -- blocking the aisles while they attempt to stuff it in the overhead. Or they put things in overheads far from their seats and then go all over to get it when the plane lands. They're usually the first to spring up the instant the seat belt sign goes off -- thereby making everyone else wait again. This behavior is really inconsiderate to everyone. I always travel with a small rolling bag and a large purse which I put under the seat. I wish airlines would enforce carry-on rules more.

What about passsengers who STINK? I flew an Air France flight a few years ago and the couple behind me smelled so bad that the stewardesses sprayed them (and the aisles--just about everywhere) with cologne--not too nicely either. They were in the middle seat of coach!!!!

OK, if this shows up twice--I am sorry...

What about passengers who STINK? We flew an Air France flight a few years ago and the passengers behind us really smelled bad. The flight attendants sprayed them and the aisles and everywhere with cologne and were not very nice about it.

Pat, I've been delighted to read your responses and helpful answers over the years. But in this case, I have to seriously disagree with your argument for reclining your seat all the way, for several reasons. First, not everyone can recline their seat all the way. What about the last row? That row can't recline. It's up against a bulkhead.

Second, you're assuming that everyone is as comfortable as you are with their seat reclined all the way, therefore, everyone else should. I'm not comfortable with the seat fully reclined. I feel very awkward and uncomfortable, like I'm hanging in mid-air.

Third, people with long legs already have very little space. When you recline all the way, you've now taken away what little space they had. And for them to recline all the way does NOT give them the same amount of space. Trust me, I've been there.

Finally, I can't sleep very well on a plane, so I read or, if I'm lucky enough to be on a plane with individual screens, watch a movie. When the person in front of me reclines all the way, the space available for viewing and reading are greatly reduced, causing me to almost be cross-eyed.

Therefore, when you feel that it's your right to take over what little space that is somebody else's, don't be surprised when they say something to you or you start getting their knees in your back. Their knees have nowhere else to go.

I am 6'6" and can tell you that I am not even able on some flights to put my tray down to use because my knees put it up to a 45 degree angle. That is the carriers fault.

With that said I cannot fault someone who puts down their seat to recline. But I do ask anyone who does this question: When I stand in front of you or sit in front of you, at an event where you want to see something, do you become uncomfortable and wish I might try to do something to make your experience a little more pleasant? If it doesn't bother you and you take each experience as they come more power to you - recline away. For anyone else I would encourage them to remember the golden rule.

Actually I like to look at the poor people in 1st class and think how little I paid to get to the exact destination at the exact same time :-)

And why do they want to board first? I would rather board last and not have to have all of the other people walking by me hitting me with coats and carry-ons and whatever else.

I was once the person in the last row flying from Chicago to Frankfurt (after another flight from the West Coast). Although it was my worst flight experience, I wouldn't begrudge the people in front of me reclining their seat. I would too if I could have.

As for neck pillows, maybe it's like first class. Those without need to know everyone else isn't comfortable either. Misery loves company. I would think anything that keeps your neighbor's sleeping head off your shoulder is a good thing.

Why people in first class board before the rest of the flight is beyond me. You have a great seat and you will get overhead space so what's the hurry? If you're on the aisle, you will have people drag their coats, carry-ons and sometimes oversized rear ends accross your face while they board. Like the flight attendant on "Airplane" with the guitar. LOL

On the last few planes I have been on the Frist Class section was in front and economy behind, you either turned left or right at door, so economy people did not get to walk through first class at all, they could onlypeek at it over their shoulders as they moved down the aisle to steerage..

I agree the last row seats without recline suck, but that is the airlines fault , not anyones elses. You have the option on most long haul flights at least, to pay extra and pre select a seat,, since it is only a small extra fee ,, if it really matters to you where you sit, then use the pre book . I do when I travel with family ( to keep up together, and so kids don't all get middle seats) , but when I am alone I have taken my chances. I find if one gets to the airport EARLY one can usaually avoid getting the bad seats.

And First Class boards first for two reasons, they are asked to,, (privilidge given by airline) and also so they have time to enjoy the champane before take off( I am not kidding)>

How about the child who plays a game requiring him to constantly push the console selection against the back of your seat? The entertainment console built into the backs of the seats are great, but the games can be an annoyance with an over-exuberant child!

I have to chime in here on the reclining seat thing. Yes, a paying customer has the right to recline their seat. However, when doing clearly is causing problems for the person behind, common courtesy dictates that you modify your behavior a little.

On our flight back from Frankfurt last year, the woman in front of my wife reclined her seat every moment of the flight except when eating. Even then, when she finished, WHAM! came the seat back, almost putting my wife's dinner in her lap. At first, my wife tried not to touch the seat back when she had to get up, sometimes almost having to fall into her seat. I finally told her "The hell with her. If she wants her seat back, she'll have to suffer the consequences."

After that, my wife didn't bother trying not to disturb the moron. This person actually had the audacity to turn around and tell my wife that every time she got up, she was waking her up! My wife yelled at her "I don't care!"

Personally, I never recline my seat because I know what it's like to have someone in your lap that you didn't invite! 8-)

Kristen,

While I understand that flight attendants etc get yelled at a lot for stuff that's not their fault which can't be easy, I appreciate that they did tell that man that the bag was too big. Some of the bags on this plane were at least twice the supposed limit. I didn't realise though that United charges for the first checked bag now (although not surprising since I heard Air Canada does and they're both Star Alliance) so I understand why people wanted to carry on, but I really think that the airline dropped the ball here. If I wasn't flying on points, I would be writing a letter to the airline.

I am surprised that airlines aren't more strict regarding carry on sizes. With all the extra charges, seems like they will make more money by following the rules. I don't think that travelers such as ourselves who follow the whole pack light philosphy should have to check in our luggage. Why don't they remove the larger bags and make those passengers check them in?

Kristen,

That, in a nutshell, is my exact point. Those of us who follow the rules should not be negatively affected by those who can't and those who won't do their jobs properly. But, these annoyances won't cut down on my travels, that's for sure. So I should just accept it for what it is. Wish me luck.

A.

Good Luck!

Ran into a few #7s on the weekend. On a flight from Chicago to Toronto, we were one of the last few on the plane since our connecting flight was delayed coming in. We get to the plane and the flight attendant tells us there's no room for our regulation size carry-on bags (btw, the first time I've ever travelled without intending to check bags. It was great...will only check bags now if I want to bring wine back!) so we have to check them at the gate. Annoying, but there's very little I can do at this point so I just check my bag and keep quiet. Anyway, after we land, we get a look at some of the stuff people were allowed to carry on. Some of the bags were ridiculously big and should not have been allowed on. So, the flight attendants' inability/refusal to enforce the carry on restriction caused a few of us following the rules to suffer. Plus, our bags were the last ones off the carousel of course. Grrrrr.

AKF, A few months back I was waiting at the security check point for my sons to get off the plane, there was this oriental man trying to get through security with the biggest bag I have ever seen. I am 5'9'' so not short and that thing must have been up past my waist. I felt sorry for the airport gentleman trying to explain that it must be checked in. That thing would never had fit into the over head compartment. At least he didn't have a melt down like that woman on youtube.

I personally won't recline my seat even if I have the option to because I know how much it sucks to have someone in your lap for 10 hours. When you can't eat because the person in front of you decided they want to nap instead of eat, it just gets rude.

Also, the people that do not buckle their children in and let them climb all over the place drive me nuts. As much as you like to think it it won't happen, it is possible for the aircraft to go through CAT (clear air turbulence) that would send a little kid flying head first into the ceiling.

Jon, I am right there with you on the kids not being buckled up. My four kids were in a minority by being in their seats and buckled up (lot of kids on our flights to and from Frankfurt in December.) There were kids who weren't buckled up the entire flight. The only time their belts were off was to go to the restroom.

Lufthansa is pretty strict at checking carry-on bags. My tote bag was small but the rest of my family had their (small) backpacks checked at the counter and given tags that they had been verified as under size limits.

14 People who jump up and crowd forward in the aisle ---especially the silly people in the back of the plane-- before the flight crew is even cleared to to open the door.

15 People who jump up and clog access to the jetway gate as soon as they announce pre-boarding.

Well, let's all look at the bright side: beats the heck out of a rat-infested ship full of seasick passengers confined in close quarters FOR WEEKS, not hours. And surely, given our serious concerns as dedicated travelers, the airlines will soon recognize the error of their ways and focus on comfort and service and responsiveness to our needs...all at a reasonable price.

I guess what gets me most is when the airline makes an announcement before boarding that only one bag will be allowed and that anything else must go under your seat.Then boarding starts and people go on with two large cases and put them both in the overheads.I dont know if the gate person and flight crew are stupid,lazy or just dont care but if you have a rule then enforce it.

How about the folks on our flight from DC to Rome who, in the middle of the night, decided to play cards. There were five or so of them; they shuffled the deck LOUDLY and laughed and carried on. That behavior would have been fine other places, but not there.

I am 5'8" and hubby is 6'3".

The airline seat that is comfy for us does not exist.

He is 70 and can still fold up like a grasshopper.

I'm 65 and had a total knee replacement, so I can't.

I always request an aisle seat so I can stretch my right leg out now and then.

Both of us fit into the seats, but both of us have broad shoulders, so we end up jousting over the arm rest.
I absolutely HATE flying because of always being squished, but it's the fastest, and sometimes only, way to get places.
It is totally beyond me why the airlines have created such horrible, uncomfortable, miserable passenger sections (coach).

I know they want to squeeze as many bodies on as possible, to make as much $$ as possible, but I think the designers should all be forced to fly 12 hours, non-stop, COACH, every month for a year.

As far as noisy, pesky kids, it's their parent's fault if they misbehave. Kids will do whatever they're allowed to get away with.

And in spite of all that, hubby and I are still hoping to get to Ireland/England/Scotland one day.

I'd sure love to go first-class, tho..........

Kristen,

I like this thread! I'll enjoy reading through it later on...but for now I've gotta fly!
Maybe I can add a few to the list...that is...if no one objects to the rantings of a "Saucy Stewardess!"LOL!

Cheers,

F/A

FA, We would all love to here from a Flight Attendents point of view. That would get interesting!

I still don't get why a neck pillow would bother anyone. They actually help you not become the person whose head falls on you while sleeping. This has been an interesting post.

F/A checking in! Okay, all that stuff bugs me, too! Good list so far!
Often it's my job as Incharge to referee Passenger disputes...and there are often many! Often all that is really needed for all of us to get along in that long skinny metal tube we call an Aircraft is...what we call "Common Courtesy".

I think we will all agree with that. Things like obeying the Crew's instruction, please and thank you, saying something when being spoken to etc will go a long way...

If you're interested to know a few key things that annoy the Flight Crew...stay tuned...or tune out...
To be continued...

Here's what bugs f/a's...

-Air Rage...We are not responsible for what happens prior to your setting foot on the a/c...remember that!

-Failure to recognize the Crew as Flight Safety Professionals who should be respected and appreciated.

-Pax who argue with safety. If we ask you to do something it's almost always safety-related...for yours and mine...

-Pax who see the 5% service aspect of our job and think that's all we do. (Anyone who knows an F/A knows better!)

-Pax who will not engage when spoken to or even make brief eye contact.

-FF's who ignore the safety brief saying they don't need to hear it...yes, you do! Life saving information in 5 minutes or less!

-Pax who think that the Pilot is my Boss...no, he's not!

-Pax who try to sneak on oversized baggage and act surprised when asked to check it last minute...Then hold up everyone while rummaging through to take out the essentials like I caused the problem.

-Pax who ring the call button repeatedly for trivial things.

-Pax who occupy the last row of seats that clearly say "Reserved for Crew Rest". Sitting in the Galley on a piece of luggage is tiring...even if it is only for the one or two quick breaks you actually take.

(cont'd...)

-Pax who see you on your Crew Rest (Break) eating your meal and ask for someting NOW or "when you're finished eating" instead of asking another working Crew Member.

-Pax who expect the Incharge to be Male and ask if there is a Male they can speak to...yes, it does happen among some Cultural Groups. Or they approach a Male f/a and assume he's Incharge.

-Homophobia, Discrimination, Harrassment and wrong assumptions. Many Male F/a's are straight. Don't assume.

-Not all f/a's want to date your husband. Nor are we "Globe-trekkers-Home-wreckers"...Although my ex was!

-Medical Volunteers who do elect to assist but take over rather than "assist" the Crew and work together.
Incharge f/a are capable Advanced Medical First Responders like the Firefighters and Police...Add to that we are trainned in Aviation First Aid with access to Tele-Medicine on the ground.

Edit: Medical Volunteers are always appreciated. I am talking worst case senario here. This only happens on rare occaision but I have witnessed it as a Pax.

For the most part, MV's only want to help. When they see that you are proficient in your skill they will gladly work with you and not against you...

(Okay, I'm getting a little heavy here...On a lighter note...)

-Smelly Pax...everything from body odour, smokey clothing to too much Perfume. Try not to wear too much Perfume on board if at all possible...Too many complaints about Allergies...

-Pax who try to sit on our Jumpseats b/c they are cool seats without arm rests...How strange is that?

(cont'd...)

-Pax who ask if it would be okay to change their Infant on the Galley floor b/c there is more room! (Busy work area, not safe!)

-Pax who voluntarily release bodily fluids on the seat.

-Pax who enjoy themselves a little too much under the blanket and think we don't see or like it when we do...

-Fearful Flyers who OVER medicate or intoxicate or especially the combination of the two. In the Air is not the place to try out a new drug for the first time. More is not necessarily better. You will compromise safety in an emergency evacuation. Fearful Flyers are my specialty...but if you are really that fearful try your best to find an alternative remedy or don't fly if you don't have to. Yes, there are some exceptions so no flaming, please!

-Pax who think we will blow up your neck pillow...Ew, nasty germs, I don't think so!

-Business travellers who tell me "we must have made it to heaven b/c you're an Angel" and then insist on getting together after the flight...you refuse yet they persist...or try to follow you...Scary! (This is in NO way flattering!)

-Married Business Travellers who think you are an "Airmattress" opportunity!

-Business travellers who hand you their coat during boarding, our busiest time, on one finger while facing the opposite direction, talking to someone else, ignoring you completely.

-Airsick Pax who insist that a crew member take their Airsickness bag or dirty diaper in the middle of meal service. How unsanitary is that? I do not mix clean and dirty. We will direct your deposit to the Lav if you are able. I personally have no problem assisting if the Pax is not able. But often you will have a travel companion who can do this for you.

-Pax who want to sit at Emergency Exit Rows and then don't want to listen to the Safety Briefing. In which case it is our call whether or not to move you and find a more suitable safety conscious candidate.

(cont'd...)

-Sitting on Emergency Equipment that is located along the floor which is clearly marked in multiple languages "Emergency Equipment - Keep Clear at All Times" and then be angry when you are asked and then told to move for that reason!

-Pax who fail to recognize that the overhead compartment is shared space...Pax who are constantly rifling through the bins during meal service or other high traffic times.

-Pax who ignore the "Fasten Seatbelt Sign" thinking it does not apply to them.

-Pax who hang their legs and feet in the aisle and trip other Pax or Crew and act surprised when it happens or they are injured by a trolley.

-Pax who like to grab, pinch or poke. It happens to Male f/a, too. I once saw a Granny run her hands up my SO's pantleg as he braced himself on the seat frame as he stowed her bag...Made me laugh though!

-Pax who blow their nose just as you are collecting trays, make you wait for it, then toss their dirty snot rag on your tray! Ewww!

I could go on and on...

So there you have it...from an f/a's POV.

Despite my rantings, I wouldn't trade a minute of it for anything! Passengers never fail to entertain and inspire me! I'm a Passenger first and Flight Attendant second. That is the secret of my success!

Hoping this "Stewardess" wasn't too "Saucy"...

Safe and Happy Skies...

f/a

Awesome Flight Attendant!

You have really had passengers ask to blow up their next pillow? That just blows my mind!

Three cheers for Flight Attendant!! Now, could you be a dear and give me a neck massage before fluffing my pillow?

Thanks

Well after hearing about the heroic, life-saving behavior of the flight attendants on the plane that landed in the Hudson River last month, I hope no one will underestimate or disrespect any airplane crew member ever again!

Flight Attendant, thanks for that very interesting post! From a passenger's point-of-view, I had no idea of some of the gross and disgusting situations you face in your career. The one that stood out for me was the passenger "willingly releasing bodily fluids" - pity the next person that sits in that seat!

On past flights, I have observed some of the "business types" that you described. The overall attitude and sense of self importance of some of them was quite evident, and they expected to be waited on, treating the F.A.'s in somewhat of a condescending manner. I should note that I'm not assuming that all business people display these traits, as I've flown with some really nice business travellers also.

Regarding medical personnel assisting the F.A. during an emergency, hopefully I wouldn't exhibit the behaviour you described (retired Paramedic). I can appreciate that F.A.'s are well trained, however someone who has advanced training and the experience of hundreds (if not thousands) of patient care contacts should be able to offer some useful assistance. I agree, they shouldn't try to "take over" as in an aircraft they'll be somewhat "out of their element" and operating without the equipment and more importantly the protocols and medical supervision they normally operate under.

You'll be pleased to hear that I've now booked flights with your favourite airline, and I'll be interested to see whether the "bugs" have been worked out of the in-flight entertainment system?

Cheers!

FA,, I can see your point with most of your points, although you do sound a bit like " I'm all that" ,,umm but I do hope you get that there are in fact going to be medical personal onboard that ARE in fact more experienced then you ,, and have more training.. and gracefully step aside. Being a first responder is not quite the same thing as a doctor or most licensed registered nurses, especially a nurse specialist.
I would also be happy to take someones barf bag to garbage,, if they were sick and I was not.. being airsick is not a joke, you can feel dizzy and nausauted even after you vomit. Put gloves on. I have helped a sick person deal with this and I am not a fa ,, just a human being. And frankly there is NO where to change a baby on a plane,, especially a slightly older child who does not fit on the fold out they have on most plane washrooms, those are fitted for infants. There are 2 yr olds in diapers. Food is not actually prepared in most galleys now adays( may be in first class) so I hardly think the food that is in sealed containers and STOWED is affected by a child being changed on floor. It may gross you out( guess its safe to assume you haven't had kids yet) , but trust me a parent is doing their best to deal with situation,, do you have another suggestion for them???

It does seem alot annoys you though , glad you enjoy your job anyways.

PS Most of us would like to be treated respectfully also, and I have seen some FAs treat pax like unruly children, ,instead of their paying customers, the ones who actually pay their wages.. I saw a FA snap rudely at a lady who rang the bell for water to take a pill, she almost shouted at the lady" that bell is only for emergencies" ,, but the seatbelt sign was on and lady could not get up, but she really needed to take her med, that FA should have been nicer,, she could have spoken kindly, but she was a rude horrid thing. So I guess it works both ways.

You always want us to be aware of your safety training

cont.
and that is very important,, you have mentioned it repeatly in your posts,, but a very small part of your job must involve just being nice to people and treating them like the actual customers,, not just an annoyance.

Just so you know, I have never had a run in with a FA,, I never need them for anything( I bring my own snacks and water, a good book and my drugs), but I sure have seen some unfriendly skies...

Dear FA,
Thank you for your very honest report about what it is really like being a flight attendant. I can well imagine what it is like having to spend 8-10 hours cooped up with smug, arrogant, thoughtless, drugged up or drunk passengers. I for one, salute you for your skills and patience. There is no way someone could do this job without liking it.

One of my favorite quotes is by Groucho Marx: "I'd never belong to any club that would have me as a member."

I think he wrote that when people were still taking the train......

FA,, I did not think of that type of "release" ,, I have never thougth of saying it that way,, but, I have heard of it happening,, I guess if you had said "men" I might have clued in to that a meaning a bit better,, I assume flight crew can have a person charged for indecent behaviour in that case couldn't they?

Jo,, sorry,, I did not automatically think of that sort of behaviour, I did understand the "under the blanket" comment though. Geuss its what pops into mind.

The men volutarily behave in a obsence manner.

As someone mentioned earlier it all really comes down to people--passengers and some flight attendants--not treating each other with respect. The rules are in place for safety and fairness and when they aren't followed it can be annoying or downright dangerous. The annoying ones are those who think that they are so, so special that no rules apply to them. This ranges from the business person who puts both of his carry on bags in the overhead, insuring that there won't be room and last minute bags need to be checked, which often results in a delayed flight. I hope he enjoys his foot room. The rest of us would rather arrive on time!

Most recently, shortly after the landing in the Hudson last month, I saw a man sitting in the exit row leave his bag under his legs and not under the seat in front of him. I should have spoken up and have resolved next time to do so. I was three seats away. Personally, I think he should be banned from EVER having an exit row again. He is a danger to us all.

Pam

Last month I flew for the first time in First Class on Continental from Hong Kong to Newark; I cashed in all of my miles. One thing that disturbed a bit was that the flight attendants weren't enforcing safety rules as vigilantly as they would back in economy class. For example, bags didn't have to be stowed under seats, when the seat belt sign went-on they didn't go around to make sure everyone complied. Even during the landing approach they didn't check for seat belts and didn't make anyone bring their seat-back upright. Why the double standard? Actually, I guess I do know why :)

It is my understanding the seat back up requirement is only in coach because if becomes a safety issue if the plane has to be emptied in a hurry. That is also the reason that seat back in front of exit doors will not decline. In bus/first class there is enough room that the seat back is not going to block anything as it would in coach.

Some interesting feedback here in regards to my "tell it like it is" post.
I'd like to say that I have worked in harmony with many respectful Medical Volunteers during the many Medical Emergencies over the years. Most are more than great. My posts were in response to the thread about "annoying passengers".

It is a fact that at 37,000 ft all you are going to get is Advanced Aviation First Aid with some symptom relief. I have yet to see anyone make an impromptu chest drain out of a Perrier bottle.

As for Pat's comments...All I was saying was that Medical Volunteers should work with the Crew and not take over assuming we have no skill. Especially if it is clearly evident that we are competent in responding to the Medical Emergency at hand.

If something happens that is above and beyond our scope of trainning, then of course we gladly let them take over and take a secondary but assistive role! That is only common sense!

While the Flight Crew is trainned in Aviation First Aid and are Advanced Medical First Responders, did you know that many of us also have second Careers as Nurses or EMS - PCP or ACP - Primary Care Paramedics or Advanced Care Paramedics for those of us other than Ken and I who may not be familliar. Those of us who have these additional qualifications are perhaps more competant in our response to Medical Emergencies.

I'm in no way trying to sound like I'm "all that" as Pat has touted I'm just making what I feel is a valid point. Enough said...

The Galley is a very busy and potentially hazzardous place. It's the last place I would want to change an Infant...yet people actually do ask...
Pax are prohibitted from this area for safety reasons. Yes, meals are covered but there are also hot liquids and ovens with the potential for burn injury. There are also 300 lb trolleys which could cause injury. Not to mention the flurry of activity. Changing a baby here, or even wanting to, isn't a good idea. No, I don't have an Infant, but if I did I would be safety conscious enough not to want to change them here! Try the Lav, an empty seat row or even your own seat?

As for the disposal of Airsickness bags...
I am aware that after someone has vomitted they may experience light headedness etc. I believe I said that I had no problem assisting with disposal if it is necessary. However, in many cases the Pax has a travel companion ie: Parent or Spouse who could easily make the journey to the Lav on their behalf. Each case is individual and should be acessed as such. What bothers me most is when someone tries to hand it to you during meal service. Airsickness Bag or Diaper, even. I don't mix clean and dirty.

Yes, we do use PPE ie: gloves but that's not the point. No one wants to see an F/A place a meal on your tray and reach across it for a bag of barf. Would you? I think not.

FA,, I am wondering,, you mention pax who "willingly release body fluids in their seats",, this I have never heard of.. you mean you have had pax pee in their seats, in a public place, and then sit in it for possibly hours.. and they do this "willingly",, no, not because they are ill, can't get to washroom( cart blocks the way at least 50% of time as we all know)or are young children.. ? Fasinating.
As for barf bags,, I do not vomit on planes, but I would imagine if one actually vomited in public like that they are likely feeling like death warmed over, and I have been sea sick and did not feel better after being ill, so I would imagine calling a "medical first responder" to help MAKES sense to me,, when I have been ill in the hospital the nurse removed my little bowl,, she did not direct me to do so myself.. I just think you sound very unsympathtic,, likely you are not a person who has ever suffered from any form of motion sickness( which makes sense as a fa)
So yes, I did find you a bit unsympathetic and someone more concerned that people realize how important and well trained you are in other areas( ps never met a medical personal who had a union that protected them from handling bodily fluids,, only that they be provided with proper equipment to protect themselves,,ie : rubber gloves) I mean you have mentioned on this board at least 1/2 dozen times over the last year or so that not only are you a flight attendent ,, but you are a "in charge" flight attendant.
I am not saying you are not a capable, well trained airline employee, what I am saying is you have made some rather unsympathetic complaints about sick people, since I just don't buy the people peeing in their seats for the hell of it .. or just being demanding by asking you to get rid of their barf bag,, have you ever stood up, and tried to walk down a narrow aisle,, while sick and dizzy good luck with that.. ( oh, yes, then perhaps getting to wait for the only 2 or 4 wcs to be free)

I get upgrades fairly often and while it may seem like the safety rules are different, my experience is that they are not. Yes, you do have to put your seat in an upright position. Yes, you should have your carry on safely stowed. I don't think it's a matter of space between seats, but rather keeping objects from flying around the cabin. Seat belts are fastened. It may not seem like the flight attendants are as vigilant, but for the most part travelers in the front of the plane travel more often and most of them are not the people derided here. (And I've done my own deriding!)

First Class passengers board first for the same reason that frequent flyers do--they want to make sure that there is space for their stuff. They don't look at you or greet you for the same reason that people in economy class don't greet the people walking past. They are rapt up in their own travel. All this applies for business class as well. I've made a choice to buy my tickets to Europe and use my miles for upgrade to business class. For me, it's made the travel part of the vacation. I also take ear plugs and a face mask, which solves the light and noise problem, because not everyone wants to sleep. ; ) So, next time you go through first class or business class, stop stereotyping and realize that it may be someone who is treating him or her self to a special trip, or it may be someone who has traveled 60,000 business miles or 60 segments in the previous. He or she earned that upgrade the hard way. You too can earn them by flying to Akron through Chicago and back from Cincinnati through Chicago to Wisconsin arriving at 10:30 PM. ; ) Pam

While it may seem like "a lot of things annoy me about my job" as Pat commented...that is not accurate.

The thread was about annoying passengers and yes, I've experienced more than a few. But the vast majority are absolutely fabulous and the reason I continue to actually WANT to continue to fly. I LIKE my secondary Career as well but I don't LOVE it like I do flying.

If I were to make a list as to why I enjoy passengers...the list would be much longer although possibly not as entertaining!

Mike....you may want to double check...obesity definitely has a genetic predisposition. And Pat..whether you "buy" FA's list of things that have happened is irrelevant to everyone except you...as are your opinions on whether FA is sympathetic or not. The post, as FA has pointed out, was "most annoying passengers," not "passengers I have come to love." And if you don't like FA mentioning the "in charge" status and medical training, then don't read them. Your comments concerning FA do nothing to contribute to the discussion.

Wow! Never did I expect my honesty about annoying passengers to bother anyone as much as it seems to bother Pat!

Perhaps I should define the "voluntary release of body fluids"...I was trying to be polite and not spell it out in an offensive manner. I was not referring to the willful release of urine. I don't think I have had to deal with that, ever. When that happens it is almost certainly always due to an unintentional release. Yes, I am aware that certain medical conditions can cause this to happen. I am more than sympathetic in that circumstance.

What I was referring to is when male passengers willfully release bodily fluids on the seat...okay? I didn't want to go there or sound offensive! But yes, it does happen more than one might think. And I think we will all agree, that is annoying behaviour...especially for the unsuspecting pax who sits there next and realizes it only after they have been sitting in it for about an hour!

Pat, lighten up! This is supposed to be fun!

Gotta Fly,

F/A

Guess Pat has never heard of the "mile high club" either.

I have a comment to the FA...We were on a flight overseas. The male flight attendant had a toothpick in his mouth the entire time he was coming around to the passengers. yuck! Not very professional. Also, when the afternoon came for "snacks", it was announced that we were to get up and get our own in the galley!!! Now with several hundred people trying to get their snacks, the galley was a bit "stuffed with passengers". Very strange indeed. Thanks for all your hard work...

Yes, passengers who engage in lewd and lucidious and indecent behaviour can be apprehended. If it is witnessed by the Crew I would definately take action. I wouldn't like to but I kind of would have to especially if it was witnessed by other pax or god forbid an unaccompanied minor. I think a warning should generally suffice. It's kind of a tricky thing to have to deal with. I mean I'd like to say something like "Excuse me Sir, while it is my intent to unsure you have a safe, pleasant and enjoyable flight...I regret to inform you that you are enjoying yourself a little too much...May I direct you to Lav if you must continue?" Not really, but I think you all get the point! Lol!
Mostly what happens is we discover the deposit after the fact which is better sooner rather than later.
Sorry to be offensive but yes, it does happen and tops my "Annoying Passenger List".

As for what Miss B experienced...I am disgusted by the lack of professionalism. That certainly would be a "write up offence" if someone on my team did that. I think a toothpick dangling from one's mouth is even worse than gum chewing while on Duty which is also prohibitted. The Incharge should have said something...I sure would have. We won't be respected if set such a poor example.

As for "self-serve" in the Galley? That is terrible! Not to mention a safety hazzard and quite possibly contrary to regulation since the Galley is a restricted area. I can only guess why that happened. It shouldn't have...Snacks can be distributed quickly, even by hand without the need for a trolley. How strange...and annoying...

Flight Attendant,

Thanks for the clarification regarding the "voluntary release". That's certainly not something I ever would have thought of. I can't imagine what these inconsiderate perverts were thinking! I suppose that also falls into the category of "having a little too much fun under the blanket". Again, I pity the next passenger in that seat. Hopefully the airlines have a regular program of upholstery cleaning!

Regarding passengers in the galley, I've been on long flights in the past where a number of passengers were in the rear galley waiting not only for a "vacancy" in the Lav but also "stretching their legs" (I was one of them). The flight crew didn't seem to mind, and the assembled group were all having a nice visit.

I was suprised to hear that some F.A.'s have a second career in EMS. Given long flight times and layovers before returning to their home location, I'm surprised there would be enough time to not only work extra shifts but also undergo the training and regular certification that's required.

This has been an interesting and informative discussion. Thanks for giving us a view from "the other side".

Cheers!

I'm a little mystified by FA's suggestions about changing a child's diaper. As Pat said, larger children don't fit on the tiny fold down table in a plane's lav. Yet FA says, "Try the Lav, an empty seat row or even your own seat". The lav is too small, I haven't seen an empty seat row in years, and have you seen the size of the seats? If the fold down table is too small, how are you supposed to fit the child (lying down) in a seat? No one wants to use the floor, but sometimes it's the only choice.

It's not too often we see four (or more) pages of replies to a Helpline post. This topic seems to have "struck a nerve" with a lot of people.

Hopefully some of those annoying passengers are reading these!

Many, if not most F/A's do in fact have second careers. And that's a good thing given the frequent instability of working in the Industry. I'd hate to be launching my Career right about now!

You see, a full time Flight Attendant works a block of up to 90 hours per month. The average 9 to 5er works 40 hours per week times 4 weeks each month we'll say so that is 160 hours per month. So if we work up to 90 hours maximum that does leave time for other things if we would like. We are paid a good hourly wage plus benefits but based on 90 hours per month of work it's not equal to a full time job.

In some cases, you can work 10-12 days a month if you operate turn-around flights with no layover. The more seniority you have the more you control when and where you operate flights.

Just to show you how diverse we can be as Crewmembers, I often work alongside a College Professor, a Dental Hygenist, a Real Estate Agent, lots of Travel Consultants and there are two additional EMS that I know of within. All are currently employed in their respective fields. There are a couple retired Nurses and one retired EMS. Some even work on layovers as Tour guides or have their own Business projects that they work on while away. One F/A translates and designs custom menus in her hotel room. Another is a travel writer who writes often for a Travel Mag.

I'd dare to say that anyone who can survive on working only up to 90 hours per month have income from other sources ie: a partner or spouse with a good paying job...

As for my suggestions as to where to change an Infant...Whatever and where ever work best for you is usually fine...just not in the Galley, for the safety reasons mentioned earlier.

It's okay to stand just outside the Galley when it's not in use. Lots of Pax come to visit in the down moments. I'm referring more to when it's in operation.

No one likes changing an infant on the floor but sometimes that's the only option other than an empty seat if you can find one. And like Nancy mentioned, that isn't always available either. Sometimes the Pax seated at the Bulkhead will accomodate a changing in their "space" if asked politely. That's where Infants and Sky Cots are ideally located anyway.

I know it's not easy to travel with an Infant at the best of times. Not that I've done it or anything but I see how challenging it can be.

I hope Kristen you will forgive me for hi-jacking your thread.

F/A, I don't feel like this post was high jacked. It has been interesting to hear from a F/A point of view. Though I was truly disgusted on what some passengers do on the plane.

Since I have never been a FA, being able to hear what it is really like, is eye opening. This thread is about "most annoying passengers" and who knows better than the person who has to deal with it? Certainly, those of us who fly once or twice a year, or even once a month or once a week, will have never seen what truly goes on. How does that saying go, "walk a mile in my shoes"? For those passengers who would like to tell a flight attendant how to do their job, or criticize them, perhaps they need to think what it would be like to really do this job. I couldn't do it. The stress would be too much for me. It takes a special person for this kind of work, so I admire the patience of all flight personnel. There is of course, always one bad apple to mess up the image, but why would you let that one person change what you thought about 1000's of people who do a great job? It is like those people who have one bad experience in a city or country and then damn that city or country for evermore. As though that one person defines the whole place or the whole profession. Sad actually.

Anyway, thanks for coming on here FA and telling us your side of flying the friendly skies.

As far as the diaper changing thing goes, I have changed a big 2-year-old in an airplane bathroom and, while it was tight, it was doable.

And for the crew rest seats -- these are required by the FAA on long flights. The FAA has requirements for how much rest time the crew gets on overseas flights. I've seen posts before complaining about having "empty seats" on an otherwise full flight. I'm very glad that the people responsible for my safety get to rest during that long flight.

You are so right Jo,, I mean that FA with the toothpick in his mouth sounded like a prince. And I loved the one who yelled at the lady who rang her bell for water ,, she was a lovely sweet girl .. HA!

Flight attendents are just people, some do a bad job, some do a good job, and some do a great job.

Passengers are just people too,, some sit quietly and ask for nothing ( good passenger) , and some barf, get in the way, and ask for things often and kick seat backs,, ( bad passengers?) .

There are differences between bad FA ( burnt out and thinks you need to just sit down and sh*t up for 8 hours) and busy FA ( no, Fa cannot get you another pillow she is dealing with meal service at the moment) , same as bad passenger( demanding said pillow during meal service, not saying please and thank you, disturbing safety equipment, being drunk etc) and passenger just trying to get through 8 hours of hell intact( sick passenger, passenger with small child, passenger who needs to get up and walk alot ) . THAT is my point , I don't buy any absolutes. Not all Fas are saints, and passengers who require extra efforts or allowances are not all "bad", and some of their requests should not be "annoying".

Thanks Maureen for making a very valid point. You are absolutely correct about the Crew Rest Seats.

I think when Pax are enlightened that almost everything we ask of them is geared to safety...yours and mine...they are more co-operative.

As for Pat's example of the "No, you can't have a blanket during mealservice" senario...Here's why...
When we are navigating a 300 lb trolley down a conjested aisle, it is not easy or logical to stop that service and return to the forward or aft overhead bin and get that one blanket for that one person.

If we can make contact with another crewmember who can get it for us, then that would make more sense.

One idea would be to ask for your blanket at the beginning of the Flight. That way you have it when you want it. Pro-active travellers are happy travellers. I think I might have taken this tip from Rick or some other. For the most part, blankets are sold for a couple of bucks and are yours to keep. Or you could always bring your own.

I don't expect my Pax to sit there and shut up for the next eight hours. I don't know of many who do, either. I don't know how anyone could choose this career if they didn't have a genuine interest in people.
When I had to take a break for awhile it wasn't the travelling that I missed the most...it was the interaction with Passengers! Even the challenging ones!

No, not all Crewmembers like their jobs as much as they used to. There are reasons for that which I'm not at liberty to discuss here. I'll be the first to admit that morale is low. Base closures, reduced crew, layoffs etc are bound to affect job performance. I'm very sorry for that. And I'm especially sorry that some take it out on our Passengers. All I can really do is try to keep myself in check, stay positive and try to motivate my Crew or any I encounter as best I can.

(cont'd...)

I recently witnessed a situation where an F/A was rather curt to a Pax. Instead of the Pax responding with equal fire, she simply said to her something like "Rough flight?" And that little bit of humanity totally put her in check...politely without putting her on the offensive! It totally turned the situation around. I've tucked that away and now use that approach often. And it works!

F/A.....I hear what you're saying. But in a sense, you're lucky...you only get them for a few hours.

While, touring I used to get them for 2-3 weeks at a time.

Here are some of the more common complaiints and the response I would have like to have given:

1) I don't like the view from my hotel window (It's 10 PM, we leave at 8...what are you planning on seeing?)

2) Why can't we stop at "Tourist Trap?" (Because its 100 miles out of our way and no one besides you wants to see it.)

3) Why don't we go to Lawrence Welk village--eveyone loves Lawrence Welk. (Maybe everyone with blue hair from Ohio but those under the age of death don't want to visit a retirement community.)

4) (At the Grand Canyon after being there 5 minutes) "What else is there to do? (HOw about you two idiots stop thinking Brooklyn is the center of the universe, trade in those black socks and sandals for sneakers, stop throwing your cigars on the ground, and for once in your life explore natural beauty.)

(con't)

5) Around noon, after leaving our hotel a few hours earlier, a passenger would come up to me and say.." I left my....glasses, wallet, camera, etc. at the hotel. Can we go back and get it?

6) The passenger who loved to eat pickled garlic and did almost every day on an enclosed, air/conditioned bus in the height of summer.

7)The Swiss Folk Band who never asked where the toilets were since they were just as happy peeing against the side of the bus.

8) The young chinese couple who bluntly told me they don't eat western style food and wanted me to find them a chinese restaurant everywhere we went. Kind of hard since most nights we stayed in national parks. (I do take credit for getting them to try Bison for the first time. They said it was good but they would have preferred it stir fry).

9) The passengers who had guide books and liked to give me quizzes based on what they were reading--to see if I knew it.

10) And my all time favorite usually the first day...'Where does this tour go?"

Frank, your post reminded me of my parents trip to Italy two years ago. They were on the trip for about 5 days when an elderly women got upset when someone told her that she was in Italy. She has thought she was somewhere in South America.

FA, you do understand that my example of "no you can't have a blanket" was meant to show that one SHOULDN'T bother a FA for such things when they are already occupied taking care of everyone else , and that a FAs refusal to do so would be entirely reasonable! I do beleive some pax are unreasonable, and make silly demands, or are just plain too needy,, ( as I said, I have gone entire 10 hr flights with no more exchange with an FA then , " thank you , and diet coke please", I now know there are also perverts around( ewww). LOL
My point is and was, FAs are usaully great, but, there are burnt out ones, or tired ones, or ones who just broke up with boy/girlfriend ones, who I have seen treat passengers as "annoying" ,, but really , I do not think most passengers mean to be.. they have no where to change that child,, you say the floor, but WHAT floor space is there?? The Galley!!

Anyways, no one is perfect, but I beleive a good book, earplugs and a neck pillow , and in my case , yes, drugs, can make any flight pleasant for everyone.

PS Alot of spite really belongs to the actual airlines in my opinion. The way planes have been redesigned over the years( put more seats in) , tighter and tighter, until they literally have us crammed in like sardines,, its their fault most of us are cramped and miserable. Alot of FAs complaints seem to involve people moving about the cabin, I mean trying to sit in the jump seats, or sitting on the safety equipment, or standing around galleys, or trying to change child there etc.. its NO ones fault,, humans need more then 18 inches of space to be happy. It would be hard to work in those conditions, but , its equally hard to not be able to go to the bathroom when you need to because the carts make the aisles completly unpassable( ps. and that is the absolute worse when its not the meal carts but the duty free, that bugs me alot)

Frank,

Thanks for the interesting and entertaining post about your past "tour experiences"! I sometimes wonder if I will ever understand people and human behaviour.

I suppose Rick's Tour Guides have to put up with similar behaviour, although I'd like to think that the average person on a RS tour is somewhat better "educated".

Cheers!

Wow, Frank must have the patience of a saint! That is amazing! I think that would exceed my level of patience for sure! I mean, 300 plus pax stuck in a long skinny metal tube called an Aircraft with no means of escape for 6-8 hours is challenging but... Frank you're right, at least there is a time limit until I stand Barbie Doll like upon deplaning and say "Thank you! Buh-Bye! Thanks for flying with us!"

(You all know that's what we all say like one hundred plus times...LoL! Some sound SO insencere that I want to throttle 'em!)

Ken, I would agree that the average person on an RS tour is probably better informed. Plus, they're told from the beginning what they can and cannot do. And, if I'm correct, a tour assistant goes along with many groups (which makes things easier for the tour director). Of course, the passengers pay for all of it.

The types of tours I worked on had people who were very well informed on where we were going and what they wanted to do on their free time to those who literally didn't know where we were going.

F/A--surprisingly, my friends would not say I'm known for my patience. But usually the complainers never numbered more than one or two. The rest were having a great time and that's what kept me motivated. My goal was to get every passenger to rave about their trip once they got home. A good tour director is part teacher, part entertainer, part manager, part leader, part therapist and part friend.

You'll also find that tour directors are known to down a drink or two.

We also had a dress code..no jeans, no shorts, no sneakers. no t-shirts. The first day and the last day we were supposed to be in tie and jacket.