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Is this too much travel?

First time going to Europe. Going with my girlfriend, 28 & 25 yrs of age. The plan so far is the following. (3 Weeks) Day 1 - Fly into venice (noonish) Day 2 - Venice Day 3 - Rent car drive to Balzano Day 4 - Drive to Munich Day 5 - Munich Day 6 - Munich Day 7 - Drive to Lake Como Day 8 - Drive to Pigna (Free stay - Southwest border to France) Day 9 - Pigna Day 10 - Day trip to Monte Carlo/Nice from Pigna Day 11 - Drive to Tuscany area Day 12 - Day trip to Florence Day 13 - Day trip to Siena Day 14 - Stay in local area in Tuscany (where ever we stay) Day 15 - Drive to Salerno - car, take bus/ferry to town of Amalfi Day 16 - Amalfi Day 17 - Amalfi Day 18 - Bus/Train to Rome Day 19 - Rome Day 20 - Rome
Day 21 - Fly home to Toronto I realize some of these "drive to's" are decent drives. ie. Munich to Lake como, and Tuscany area to Salerno/Amalfi. I'm trying to see a lot, but I also don't want it to be too much and ruin our trip. What do you guys think? Keep in mind, we are young and have some energy. I am a comfortable driver, and have a pretty decent rate on the rental already, so I'm not too concerned about what is cheaper. Thanks

Posted by
4044 posts

Yes. I was exhausted just from reading the list. But then, I am a traveller, not a road warrior. What you will see is highways and byways, fine in their own right, but you will barely scratch the surface of life in historic and still vibrant cities.
You must have expected this sort of reply when you posted the question. Your doubts are correct. My personal rule: No less than four days in any major centre, plus a day for each move. Slow down and smell the culture.

Posted by
9 posts

Thanks for the response. I have a feeling I need to cut out Munich as much as I don't want to.

Posted by
6788 posts

Yeah, gotta agree. This looks like a trip to Italy, and you're attempting to squeeze in some "side trips" that are too much. I'd lose Munich, and I'd lose Monte Carlo. Then I'd look carefully to see if some of what you have is redundant (eg Balzano/Lake Como). I'd also lose the car. With the exception of "Tuscany area" everything I see on your list is done better by train - a car would only be a time-consuming headache (and the train would probably be cheaper). If you want to get out into the Tuscan countryside, maybe rent a car for a day, but otherwise (Florence, Siena) you do NOT want a car there - or probably anywhere else on your list.

Posted by
3595 posts

Besides echoing what some others have said about it being too much, I can give you some info on one facet of your proposed itinerary. Last year we drove from where we stayed near S. Gimignano to the Naples airport in order to drop our car and not have to deal with it in Sorrento. That drive took around 6 hours. You are proposing to add another couple of hours to get to Salerno. I strongly advise you to investigate other scenarios. Have you looked into dropping in Sorrento and taking the bus from there to Amalfi, for example? If you go to the viamichelin.com website, you can get some idea of how long your various drives might take. I say "some idea," because everyone agrees you'll get extremely optimistic estimates. You'll also get an estimate of the cost in gas and tolls. After adding in the cost of a day's rental, depending on where you are in Tuscany, it might be better to just fly from Pisa or Florence to Naples.

Posted by
9 posts

Are you sure about Salerno being that much further? It seems about the same distance judging by the map.

Posted by
518 posts

Hello Matt,
I think your schedule is very aggressive. I think at 28 with your girlfriend along on a trip to Europe, you are going to have a good time regardless of where you go. However, I think you will both have more fun if you allot more time in SOME of the wonderful places you have planned. Driving is slower than in the US as a rule. Try putting your destinations into www.viamichelin.com. It will give you distance and driving time. You must increase that time by about half to get an accurate idea. Europe doesn't get any better or romantic than Italy, so I'd focus there. You will go back again. My first trip was at 23, and I still haven't been everywhere I want to go at 64. I really think you will be happier to go fewer places and perhaps use the great train system some. I would personally omit Munich and Monte Carlo. As I said, you are going to have a great trip. My wife and I leave for a month in England and France in 12 days. We're excited too.

Posted by
1556 posts

I think you can do this. You are young and if this is what you want to do, then go for it. Based on some of the previous posters, I would double check the travel times between places to make sure you have time to see the places but otherwise do not necessarily change this drastically. In general, the vast majority of posters here want to take things slowly and only see a few places. But if you are well prepared and know what you are doing, then go for it.

Posted by
8141 posts

I'm sorry, Matt, but you're running in circles. And with the Alps and the Dolomites thrown in there, your travel routes need a little fine tuning. Remember that your first and last days are spent going/coming from airports and checking into hotels. Every move costs you a day. My suggestion is to fly open jaw into Munich and out of Rome. 1. Do your Munich tourism and later take a long day train trip (338 miles) to Venice. 2. Take a fast train down to Florence (150 miles). For day trips out of Florence, take a bus trip to Siena. Then Rent a car for a day to visit San Gimignano and Voltera. Florence is worth a 4 day stay, too. Forgo visiting Pigna, Monte Carlo and the French Riviera, as there is enough of the Italian coastline that's much easier, faster and ultimately cheaper to visit. These places are just too, too far away. Lake Como is also out of the way, as it's 45 minutes by train north of Milan. 3. Go to the Cinque Terre (instead of the Amalfi Coast). It's easily reached from Florence with a couple of train transfers @ Pisa and La Spezia. 4. Take a train from the C/T straight down to Rome. It is a premier destination and worthy of the balance of your trip.
There is so much culture, history, art and food in Italy that traveling a little slower will make your trip so much more enjoyable.

Posted by
32206 posts

matt, I was also exhausted just reading your Itinerary! It's FAR too ambitious (IMHO), especially for such a short time frame. Whether it's feasible or not, you'll end up seeing too much of Europe through a windshield or train window rather than enjoying it. I'd suggest skipping the areas south of Rome this time (Salerno, Amalfi), and seeing those on another trip. Have you bought air tickets yet? You could (for example) fly inbound to Munich and then travel by train to Bolzano and into Italy from there. That should be fairly easy to fit-in if you skip the areas south of Rome. Using a car for places that aren't well served by public transit makes sense. However, a car will be a disadvantage in the larger cities. For driving in Italy, note that EACH driver will require the compulsory International Driver's Permit, which is used in conjunction with your home D.L. Failure to produce an I.D.P. if requested can result in fines on the spot! You can obtain I.D.P.'s at any CAA / AAA office for a small fee. You'll also need to be aware of the dreaded Zona Traffico Limitato areas, which are becoming increasingly prevalent in Italy ( especially in Florence). Passing through these zones will result in expensive fines, which you won't know about until several months after you've returned home. Recent posts here would seem to indicate that authorities in Italy are becoming more aggressive in collecting the fines from foreign drivers by using collection agencies, and there may also be charges from the rental car firm for providing renter information to law enforcement. Happy travels!

Posted by
9 posts

Yes flights are already booked. Also keep in mind, I'm not planning on "seeing" balzano or lake Como, they were simply put in there as stop overs to break the driving up. By eliminating Munich I would be taking those stops out as well.

Posted by
32747 posts

You're flying (jetlagged) into the most romantic city in the world (IMVVHO) with your girlfriend and you only have one day there?

Posted by
9 posts

Yes. Numerous people have told me a day is fine. We are also staying right in Venice.

Posted by
14507 posts

Hi, I can see the validity of dropping Munich this time and adding those days to say northern Italy. Then the trip would be an Italian trip. Save Munich for next time. It may be you won't be jetlagged. Not everyone suffers from jetlag. At your age I didn't even know what it was, certainly was not reeling from its effects, when I flew to Europe.

Posted by
32747 posts

OK, so I'm going against your numerous people and suggest that one day does not do Venice justice. The most amazing place - you need to see it at dawn and at sunset; just strolling and exploring the little lanes (calles and rios), getting lost, going on a Venetian pub crawl and / or cicchetti crawl. Riding around on the lagoon, seeing the remote islands, see the glass made, watch the rowers, just chill in the wonderful canal city. Oh, and have a gelato.

Posted by
9 posts

I hear yah. But we will have the afternoon we get there. (Yes potentially jetlagged), a full next day, and til around noon the following day. Not enough?

Posted by
3696 posts

If you have 19 days, a rental car, some money and your girlfriend I think you will have a wonderful time despite all the naysayers. I also do not suffer much from the dreaded 'jet lag' I typically have so much adrenalin that I use every minute of my first day. If it were me, I would book my hotels in Venice and Rome and set out on an adventure. You really can do European trips as you go along, depending on what happens along the way. You can definitely find places to stay in Tuscany at the last minute. I have done it tons of times.
With one night in Venice(I would prefer 2) you can still see a sunset as well as a sunrise... which I highly suggest getting up before dawn and watch the city wake up. If you are flexible and spontaneous with your plans you can work it out as you go... and you will probably find lots of unexpected surprises as well as places off the beaten path.

Posted by
9 posts

We actually have 2 nights in Venice so I think we will be OK on that one. And yes we have hotels booked there and Rome. A couple free cancelation reservations in Tuscany and amalfi coast as well.

Posted by
1556 posts

Rereading your plan, I think you have done a great job in planning this. With some fine tuning and streamlining I think you will be good. I tend to do very complicated trips with kids in tow and am able to pull it off so suggest you go with what will make you happy. If things don't work out, put it down to experience and tweak the next trip you make. You have to accept that different people have different travel styles and most folks on this board tend to want to take it slow and easy and savor every place even though Rick Steve advocates a much more fast paced travel style.

Posted by
32206 posts

matt, If you're so inclined, post a note in the "Trip Reports" section when you get back. Even without Munich, I still think your proposed Itinerary is too ambitious, but it would be interesting to see how well it worked.

Posted by
813 posts

I didn't catch what time of year you are going, but travel can be slower in winter when there may be poorer road conditions through Austria which could slow you down a bit. Also, Bolzano isn't that far from Venice (2-3hrs), so you could drive through to Munich if traffic is fine. A note about autobahn traffic......last winter it took us 7.5 hrs to drive a typically 3 hr drive because of traffic jams. While that is unusual, you should be aware traffic can back up quickly and for a long period of time, so make sure you have plenty of gas. Also you'll need a vignette for Austria as well as some particular safety equipment for Austria and Germany that Italy doesn't require, so check your rental accordingly. I also have to agree that I'd rather spend more time in Venice and some of the other Italian towns than waste time driving a pretty boring freeway route to Munich and back.

Posted by
9 posts

Thanks Kathy We are going in July. We have decided to remove Munich. So we are now going from Venice to pig a with a 1 night stop over between that trek.

Posted by
9 posts

Will do. Any suggestions on a stop over between Venice and pigna (1 night). And the same from pigna to Florence?