How large (or small) a car for southern Italy road trip?

We've driven in Italy three times with more than just the two of us. Venice to Sicily with four people, all around Sicily with five, and all around Puglia with six including a baby with a heap of (too much) baby equipment. I don't know much about cars and don't remember what cars we used, but for the six of us in Puglia we had a 9-passenger van. The van was not a problem because we never drove it into the old part of towns and because we were in Puglia in March rather than in summer. I'm guessing that you will need a mini-van.

Here's what I think are your least bad options.

You will have to park outside of towns and walk in, so find hotels on the edges of the old town. We usually have to do this anyway with just a small two-person car.

Rather than a road trip in which you stop along the way with luggage left in your car, consider taking day trips from a a few home bases. We almost never leave our bags in the car, in Italy or anywhere --- all three times our cars have been broken into have been right outside of our home in Saint Paul.

And with four people, look into renting an apartment with a washing machine a few times --- maybe this will help with the over-packing. Our trips to Italy are usually five weeks, and having a washing machine is our key to taking only two 25" checked bags plus two under-seat bags, and we could actually pack lighter than that if we needed to.

What kind of car should I be looking for, for this group of 4 adults each with one large bag, one carry-on, and one day-pack?

I believe it's time to "think different." You've already acknowledged that everyone has too much luggage and that you want to stay in town centers accessed by narrow streets - something has to give.

Look at the response from Roberto da Firenze in this post; use that as a basis to research rental car sizes:

https://community.ricksteves.com/travel-forum/italy/rental-car-rome

We are a family of 4 and have rented many vehicles, all over the world. When we pack anything more than a 20” carryon + a backpack each, the smallest car that will fit is an estate car. Similar to what Americans refer to as a station wagon. These have much bigger trunk space.

We have tried renting mid size SUVS, and our 4 carry ons plus backpacks barely fit. I was so surprised, I took a picture of how packed it was. Truck space in European cars is much smaller than most American cars.

The concern when traveling with luggage is that you really risk a lot if you choose to make any stops along the way. The risk of theft is high if your luggage is visible.

In 2023, we travelled as a group of 6, and were in a beast of a 8-seater van for 3 weeks. That was a test of a marriage, for sure! All I can say is FULLY insure the vehicle with the ZERO deductible coverage. It will save your marriage. You can read about our adventures here: https://community.ricksteves.com/travel-forum/trip-reports/3-weeks-6-people-and-a-full-size-van-oh-dear

I think you make a number of valid points and a minivan will answer most of them. I personally would be more concerned that you and your wife will need to rethink other parts of your usual trip strategies: When do we get up? When do we eat? When do we go to bed? What are our priorities for travel activities? These "travel style" differences will have a greater impact than just car size. And they need to be discussed ahead of time. Good Luck.

NickB makes great points. Traveling with others adds all kinds of levels of complications. Are they morning people and you are not? Are they independent enough to do what they want when they want, or will you have to play tour guide? Do you have similar budgets and expectations for meals, lodging, activities, etc? Three weeks is a looonnnngggg time to travel with another couple. You need to have some VERY open conversations about expectations, budget, etc.

Good points made above, thanks for all the advice so far.

I actually agree with all of them, but if the in-laws do decide to come along, I expect to have a hard time pushing on some of the parameters. Knowing all the parties, I expect that "just bring less" will be the hardest needle to move much. None of these folks attend the "Church of Carry-on Only" (which I know is the primary denomination of many folks here), and they would probably scoff at the very idea; and honestly, I'm nobody to look down my nose at them for that, as I'm equally guilty of the vice of Bringing Lots of Things -- my carry-on bag is pretty much full, or beyond full, just with the camera gear and technical stuff that for me is a requirement (photography is a hobby and a key driver of my travel plans, and there's no way I'm limiting myself to a phone for that). Yes, I'm fully (and painfully) aware that high-end photo gear and other electronic gizmos I bring are prime targets of thieves (and heavy and fragile; my cross to bear...).

So with "bring less" probably off the menu, my concerns are mostly around practical issues with the vehicle.

Rather than a one-way road trip itinerary from one overnight stop to the next, I'm planning to make this more of a "base to base" trip, staying in most locations for 2 to 5 nights and making shorter out-and-back day trips from each. But still, we will be changing bases often enough, and even when we're day-tripping, I'll be worrying about break-ins while we are away from the parked car (I typically carry all my expensive gear/electronics in my day pack and take it with me, but I suspect others will scoff a bit at my paranoia about break-ins, until the first one happens...). I figure we may occasionally find parking with an attendant (he's there to collect money, not stop break-ins) but in most cases, unattended lots will be the norm. And I assume our parked car with blankets covering unknown masses in the rear will look like a great big, blinking bullseye to thieves. I also assume (knowing myself) I will often want to make spontaneous stops for a short hike out to scenic spots - unless someone in our group always volunteers to stay behind and guard the car, we are asking for one of those Things I Learned From My Travel experiences. I guess we will just deal with it.

Access to and through old town centers with impossibly narrow streets (and simply finding usable parking spots) is my other worry. I'm a pretty skilled driver and will do the best I can. So I'm hoping to find a vehicle that's just barely big enough for us 4 and our bags (but no bigger). I've looked over the major Euro car rental places and while I am finding SUVs and an occasional mini-van, I'm not seeing anything labeled as "estate car." Any search tips for getting their websites to cough that up? I'd love to keep it below the "mini-van" threshold.

About the interpersonal dynamic: oh yeah, I am keenly aware of the challenges that will come with upping our voting group up from two to four. My spouse and I often have strongly expressed preferences which sometimes differ, but we've always found ways to sort those out and continue on our journey together (though I'll admit, at times...). Just adding in two more people will greatly increase the complexity of getting aligned, yeah, I know that. Fortunately, the other couple are pretty easy-going (we have traveled with them before, although on a completely different kind of trip). I'm fairly confident we will be able to work things out but yes, we will all need to be ready to compromise a lot more than we might usually be - that's just how it goes with a large group.

Thank you for your shared insights. Please continue.

Pick your hotels carefully. Only stay where you can park your car onsite and get an email from them that ensures a space will be available. Leave you car at the hotel and use public transportation or taxis to get into the old city centers. Drive it out into the country and the hard to reach sites. I used this approach on many Euro business trips.

@ Ringo

My experiences and observations. No recommendations,

Like you, I have not seen European estate car rentals for some time but have not been actively looking.

5 – 6 Weeks April – May 2024. Mostly mainland Italy. 5 days east Sicily. 3 Slovenia.

Leased Cars. Both used petrol. From Rome. Citroen C4 with two adults and two children. 1 x20kg and 1X 10kg suitcase type, 4 backpacks.

Other was a Citroen C5 crossover with four adults. All long-haul bus class flyers. 4 x 23kg suitcase type, 4 backpacks, all fitted snuggly into the boot. No space left over.

In the south. 1 week Abruzzo, 1 week Puglia, 5 days Sicily, 2 Days coastal Calabria, 4 days Agerola overlooking Amalfi region. Preferred accommodation was rural, agriturismo or similar.

I think the C4 would have been too small for us 4 adults, for bags, and for comfortable interior rear leg room.

We managed to handle parking and other driving skills. Maybe needed to concentrate on spatial awareness a bit harder. Motto: If Italians can do it, so can we. Cars were fitted with modern theft/intrusion alarms.

Never experienced any untoward domestic disputes, beyond what is normal. Had a marvellous time.

Regards Ron