Ok. What’s your pick and approach to flying international? Do you always fly economy? Do you fly first/business? If so, do you buy it outright or do you upgrade? Do you pick your travel dates dependent on if you can fly first less expensive? What about points and miles, do you use them to upgrade?
Just curious about other folks’ methods.
For international flights, we book our flights on non peak times. We book premium economy and then upgrade with points or system upgrades (AA). So far, we've had great success with our method. Pre-Covid, we upgraded at check-in. Usually a reduced price but only worked on foreign airlines. (about a 30% success rate).
"If you don't fly first class, your children will"
For leisure, I typically fly economy - sometimes premium economy on overnight flights. I could perhaps afford the occasional business class fare, but it is much cheaper for me to take an extra day off if I feel the need to recover from a long journey, and I don't find flights across the north Atlantic to be long enough to justify spending thousands.
As for dates, I have some flexibility but not a lot, I have to take 3-4 weeks off between mid-June and mid-September per company policy (poor me 🤭).
We don’t fly economy any longer, too old and cranky. We fly premium economy but have been upgraded to business which is lovely. We try to fly out of JFK for convenience so that is where we always look first.
I fly Delta only.
I have a platinum sky miles Amex card. I had been able to reach Platinum Medallion Status in the past, but that will change for 2024. Platinum Medallion means that I can book an economy ticket and immediately get upgraded to comfort plus. Then I will make an upgrade from there depending on the route and cost. I may upgrade with miles or cash.
This year I purchased 2 round trip tickets to PNW for less than $50 in airport fees. Used miles for economy tickets, immediately upgraded to comfort plus. I upgraded one leg to first class also using miles.
I just recently purchased one round trip ticket to CDG in economy using miles and was immediately upgraded to Comfort Plus. I used more miles to upgrade to Premium Select for the ATL-CDG leg. I have a lot of time to decide on upgrading the other legs. I am in an exit row for the overseas flight home right now.
I won't fly economy again unless it is extenuating circumstances. I would rather stay home.
I won't be making any near future purchases with miles, however, as I am down to under 15k.
Like Barbara, we're too old and cranky to put up with economy on longer flights. We would do PE for flights under 5 hours. After that it's BC. Since we are retired, we prefer to travel at off peak times when ever possible. And can be a bit flexible on dates when doing a tour or cruise (flying in a few days early or staying a few days after.) Sometimes we use points, if we have enough. Other times we don't (but use the cc that will add to our existing points).
Our next trip will have flights spanning 22 hours. Having the perks of BC on the plane and at the airports will make it a lot less horrible, and we can arrive a whole lot less exhausted. And cranky.
Sadly I am an economy flier only. At least main cabin and not basic economy !
I can't justify spending any more than that. Premium Economy is too rich for me.
I have had Silver status on Delta the past two-three years, but I won't spend enough this year to make it for next year.
I don't have any tricks or tips, and I don't buy any kind of ticket that would allow for any upgrading. I just consider myself to be lucky to go back and forth to see my family in the States.
I have used miles for eighteen trips and never paid for a flight and always pay the extra $100+ for a bulkhead seat to travel more comfortable…always find near the 60000RT by being flexible in June and Sept.
Over the last few years, we've made the change to first class or business; domestic and international. We fly United and use points if needed and we always buy outright.
I’m adopting the Steveh motto, “If you don’t fly first class, your children will.” Since retiring, we try to fly business on the overnight flight to Europe for better sleep and fly premium economy on the return daytime flight. By being somewhat flexible on travel dates and avoiding summer travel, we can usually get decent fares although booking for 2024 has been a challenge. We also consider alternate airports if the fare savings is significant. For example, we are starting a RS tour near Venice next year, so our first choice is a flight to VCE. But we will also consider flying to MXP or MUC and taking train to Venice.
Business Class to Europe, for certain. Usually we have to buy a trip every couple of years (we go once a year and occasionally twice), otherwise we use miles and pay the -- sometimes outlandish (British Air) -- fees. We land feeling more human and less harried, although it does not completely solve jet lag.
Using miles means looking the instant flights are released. I am often booking the following September while still traveling on this year's trip in October.
Domestic we do at least premium economy, business when we can, and sometimes if we've bought enough segments during the yer, our favorite airline, Alaska, upgrades us as MVPs.
As said above "If you don't fly first class, your children will." (We don't tell them that.)
"If you don't fly first class, your children will"
Never mind that your children are probably in the generation that can only dream of buying now-astronomical house, crushed by the weight of student loans.
I mean, spend it if you’ve got it, sure. But let’s try not to be smug about the generational economic disparity that’s been systemically created over the last 50 years.
Definitely at that older cranky stage but I have a mental flowchart to decide on my personal cost benefit ratio.
Our primary airline for international and my husbands points is United. I have a minimum of economy plus for overnight flights.
-economy plus in a plane with only two seats on the side and a shorter (<8hr) flight? OK!
-If less than $300 difference, or only 3 seat layout? upgrade to PE.
-20,000miles and $400ish to upgrade to BC? yes, I'll sign up (at least on the east bound flight)
-$800 to upgrade in cash to BC on the east bound flight? (>9hr flight? I'll be really thinking about it)
Interestingly, I've found that sometimes the cash upgrade price is cheaper than just buying BC originally.
I definitely look at split flights. A higher cabin on the overnight east bound but lower cabin on the daytime return.
I'm with Kim on this. I don't want to pay a lot of money for a premium seat that I will be in for 6-8 hours. It's just not worth it to me. I have flown business class in the past due to close relatives who work for Delta, but I wasn't able to sleep any better in business than I did in Main Cabin or Comfort+, so I don't really see the need for it.
Quite frankly, I'd rather spend the money on having more days at my destination.
I guess that's the difference Mardee- I can't sleep sitting up so economy usually means no sleep. PE with the footrest means a fitfull 1 hr doze off and on. Business lie flat at least 4 hours.
Oh I definitely can't sleep in economy either.
I finally last trip took one of those little hammock things that makes a footrest - it made a big difference to fatigue in my legs and back.
one of those little hammock things that makes a footrest
I had not heard of those! I've used my backpack as a foot rest which does help some but those hammocks look really good. There are a lot on Amazon. Do you know which one you bought?
A higher cabin on the overnight east bound but lower cabin on the daytime return.
Agreed, I'm more likely to upgrade outbound than return, with personal thresholds for each and for each cabin.
I consider United's published ticket price to be their opening "offer," which I never buy.
After the 24 hour purchase window closes, they make more upgrade "offers" in their seat selection map. Sometimes quite a few over time. I check that regularly to see what upgrade offers they're showing, which can vary by hundreds and even $1000+ on different days and over the months as their flights and cabins fill. Or don't.
Waiting for their upgrade offers, I've never paid anything close to what the original upgraded ticket would have cost.
Being metro Detroiters it's a given flights will be Delta. We have become spoiled using Premium Select and the 2 seat section is ideal for us. My partner is taller than me and requires the extra legroom. I like not having to get up to let others out for the restroom. I enjoy having space that's not invaded by the seat in front of me. I doubt that I can illicit my partner's enthusiasm for travel if it's not in Premium Select. We prefer the A350 over other options but it's not always a possibility. Of course the fares are likely higher here than other locales but we are retired without children so we probably feel less restrained than some other travelers.
Perhaps in the future we will consider the new seasonal Icelandair option (4 transatlantic flights weekly between Iceland and Detroit) with plenty of destinations. The RT cost to Dublin in refundable SAGA compares favorably to the price of Delta's Premium Select using other connections. But having only 4 flights weekly makes arriving on a timely basis for a tour a bit iffy for me. We don't particularly like the Evans terminal either - McNamara rates very highly in our estimation.
I check that regularly to see what upgrade offers they're showing, which can vary by hundreds and even $1000+ on different days and over the months as their flights and cabins fill. Or don't.
It is good to know that they do vary over time. Last year I was monitoring an upgrade on a flight that had tons of open BC seats. I kept expecting the upgrade offer to go down but it never did. I've been trying to decide about a flight next spring. I'll just keep watching!
I usually fly Turkish overseas, always economy. Fortunately, I can sleep reasonably well on a plane, even in economy. As soon as I have enough points to upgrade to business class, I intend to do it ... at least once.
I believe many of us of a certain age have given up economy. I did about 10 years ago.
Seriously thinking of first class on next sojourn. Why not?
I have always flown economy in more than a dozen trips overseas.
A flight is good if the airline gets its passengers there.
It is good to know that they do vary over time.
I've noticed a few things as I've tracked the United algorithms:
I'm also careful not to exceed my personal thresholds because I don't want United algorithms tagging me as a passenger who is willing to pay more.
ETA: I've also noticed that United will price their Premium Plus cabin about $100 less than Polaris early in their "offers" trying to encourage the Polaris upgrade. After a while, they may bump the Polaris price back up and drop the price of the Premium Plus, which I've often seen priced at $375 or $500.
I fly on Delta Comfort which is typically the first 3-5 rows in economy. The pitch is 3” more than regular economy which is important to me. The seats & food are the same as regular economy. If I have enough miles & if find a generous miles sale, I may opt for premium select. On international flights, I redeem miles to fly. I don’t do that with my domestic travel. I try to travel on Tuesdays or Wednesdays to get the best deal.
I never vacation in summer because that is the most expensive time to travel and that’s also when the mobs from North America come to Europe. I like late September through November as well as the month of March or early April to travel. Deals can be found at these times.
Business or first class anything over four hours, domestic or international. We made it to our mid 70’s fortunately. We want to continue to travel as long as we can but flying economy became too just too difficult. Economy plus worked when we could get 2 seats across. But a few equipment changes landed us in another arrangement so we’ve given up on that. We use points when we can to upgrade, but usually that puts us waitlisted and that’s unacceptable.
We book our international trips on our opening day, which is always 330 days from return flight back home. We are usually able to get either Delta Premium Select or Delta Comfort Plus for a very good price. So that's what we do. We sometimes check back 2-5 months later and typically Coach is more than we paid for better seats.
We're strictly budget travelers, and we never fly above basic economy. We get there in the same time as those in the front of the plane. For the difference in airfares, we can take a second European trip per year--or go on a mission trip.
My wife's hobby is staying up late at night finding cheap flights. We usually are flying for 50% or less than others in basic economy are spending.
We live in a medium size city which means we must connect in a gateway airport to get to Europe. The total time in the air, including time on the ground in the connecting city, is important. We want a short layover, but not too short a layover. We also prefer to fly into connecting airports that have other flight(s) later in the day--in case of unseen problems. Another consideration is the connecting city as we refuse to fly through ORD or JFK--distasteful airports. We actually prefer ATL since we're so familiar with the airport. We're also 90 minutes from a larger airport that has a non-stop flight into LHR.
We refuse to take any of those 6:00 am flights out of European airports because they usually take you to another European gateway airport where we'd be sitting until noon or shortly after to fly to the States. We try to fly out around 9:00 am if we're making connections in Europe. Late afternoon flights from Europe might drop us in a large U.S. city where we have to spend the night before we can catch a connecting flight home. So we try to avoid those flights.
And lastly, we do not purchase tickets from consolidators or internet sellers of flights. Some are not legitimate and they are a pain to deal with. We usually purchase airfares directly from the airlines. I've also purchased airfares cheaper from European airlines knowing we'd be flying on their U.S. partner/affiliates' airplanes.
I try to fly higher than economy for international travel. I love the lie flat seats in Business, but can't always afford those. I flew Premium Select Delta over to France last month and Comfort + home. Was very disappointed in Premium Select seats (not much more than regular recline and the foot rests hardly angled up at all so I didn't use them. Comfort+ was a much more positive experience and I'll definitely make that my first choice both on domestic and intl flights from now on. I used to love Aer Lingus business class until I had 3 bad experiences in a row with them.
After the 24 hour purchase window closes, they makes more upgrade "offers" in their seat selection map. Sometimes quite a few over time. I check that regularly to see what upgrade offers they're showing, which can vary by hundreds and even $1000+ on different days and over the months as their flights and cabins fill. Or don't.
CWsocial, I had no idea about this. I will now know to look and see if Delta does anything similar to what you are describing with your United experience.
Since my spouse started dealing with some health issues in 2017, we have opted for Business Class flights. We don’t have a lot of other splurges in our life (old cars etc) so we pay for this as it is a quality of life issue for him. Pre 2017 we tried PE a couple of times which was fine and before that we aimed for Exit Row seats.
We don’t use points as we don’t have enough ever so we just pay the rate based on the most convenient European destination for us. BC has become pricey in the past 2+ years but it is worth it for comfort for my partner. We have lower travel expenses in other areas as we typically eat a bigger lunch, not dinner, use transit a lot, and don’t stay in expensive hotels.
I use my frequent flyer miles to reposition to places like JFK or Boston, and then buy business tickets from there. Business tickets from those cities are often cheaper than coach tickets out of Atlanta or at least not dramatically more expensive. I also go to wherever the cheap ticket is in Europe and reposition from there where I want to be.
Now you need to allow a lot of time between all these connections. For example, my next flight to look to Europe I’m flying from Boston to London at 7 PM in the evening at my flight from Atlanta to Boston is at 7 AM that gives Delta about six flights to get me to Boston.
And since I don’t have children, I’m not worried about the fact that I’m not leaving them anything. I don’t expect my parents to leave me anything either. (Maybe people shouldn’t lecture us on how we should spend our money unless they provide it to us😂)
I fly United and I've always been happy flying economy. Prefer flying out of IAD direct and the on the way home connect through Dulles to RIC. I'm not tied to any particular time of year, though I've been enjoying the autumn, late winter and early spring travel. I avoid everyone else's big travel dates and I tend to find the lowest prices for the routes I'm interested in tends to be more common mid-week. I also prefer the 5:30 departure and arriving in London at the crack of dawn.
Never had an issue with economy and I've always been able to sleep just fine. However last year's accident has left me with a left knee I can no longer flex and leg room is a big deal now. So now I'm learning how travel has changed and what I can tolerate. I'm currently on my first trip to the UK since the accident and I'm happy with Premium Plus on 777-200s and bulkhead seats 20L and 20A are perfect, and the leg rests at those seats are amazing. I'm figuring 31L & 31A will be the same in economy +. Hoping the same seats work out for me on the 767 High Js. Wednesday night I'll get to see how seat 7A works out on the CRJ550.
I'm only about 5'2", so regular Coach is usually [corrected >>] comfortable [<< corrected] enough for me. The issue is the overnight flight, on which I typically get no sleep whatsoever. I really covet the lie-flat seats in Business Class when I'm heading to Europe, but I just can't justify the huge extra cost for the comparatively short transatlantic flight from the East Coast. It's a miserable experience, but it's not that many hours. I don't have back issues or anything like that, so I can't think of Business Class as a way to avoid lingering pain that would compromise my enjoyment of the trip.
I don't have quite enough miles for a one-way ticket in Business Class. My miles were accrued over 5 to 6 years; I'd hate to use them all at one go. I retired 18 years ago with almost no miles, and I have as many as I do only by dint of pushing everything possible through a United credit card and often paying outright for tickets. When COVID hit and I wasn't sure what countries would let me in or when, it was really nice to have the option of booking flights with miles that could be redeposited at no charge if necessary. I'm reluctant to give up that flexibility.
I had no idea about the upgrade options showing up after booking a United flight. I will certainly be watching for those in the future. Maybe at some point I'll see a mileage price I'm willing to pay.
Thank you, CWSocial, for making us aware of how United handles upgrade offers.
I've crossed my last ocean in coach.
Now, I'm perfectly happy in coach on shorter, daytime flights, but my limit for coach seats is US west coast-to-Hawaii. Anything longer than that, and we're up in business class, in a lay-flat seat/bed. I live on the US west coast, so any flight to Europe is 9-10 hours or more (often a lot more); flights to Asia start at 9 hours and go up to the point where travel time is measured in days, not hours. All these long flights inevitably involve an overnight (sometimes more than one night). My goal is to get good sleep on the plane and arrive rested, feeling good, even (gasp!) happy, and to to be able to hit the ground running. I learned this lesson after my first business class flight to Australia - what a difference it makes! I'll still tough it out in coach (even on a redeye) for flights to Mexico, the Caribbean, and the periphery of North America, but I draw the line at other continents.
Spending 12-24 hours getting somewhere in coach has previously left me exhausted, miserable, and physically sick (literally) - so sick and miserable, in fact, that it has taken me 1-2 days to recover from the displacement trauma. That is no way to begin an enjoyable trip. I've come to recognize that flying there (and back) in business class effectively "buys" me another 1-2 days of usable time upon arrival (and also upon return), and that's worth a lot to me.
We use points for all our long-haul flights and have been doing so for years (I used to fly a lot for work so have a good reserve). So for us, booking far, far in advance, stalking the most optimal flight options, and coming up with creative routings (sometimes surprisingly so) are almost always necessary – eg, next September, we are coming home from Corsica with 2 days in Alsace (spouse wants to go there and has never been to that region), then taking a train from Colmar to Zurich, flying to Istanbul, then flying home to Seattle...not exactly an itinerary one would expect (but surprisingly "cheap" for business class - took a lot of flight research to pull it off). Might sound crazy, but it works for us.
YOLO and YMMV, but with no kids here to leave anything to...I'll leave my miles (along with travel memories) to my spouse.
For United fliers who might be interested in the details.....everyone else should skip this only mildly entertaining sequence of CWsocial vs the United algorithm.
I'll give highlights of a 2023 sequence of "offers" for Polaris business class upgrades that I saw for an August 30th flight. (I was checking regularly, especially when I saw price changes.)
Jan 12: bought original ticket in Economy (not Basic Economy)
United algorithm: let's see if we can tempt her to spend more
Jan 22 Polaris $868 (this was the cheapest price I saw for Polaris)
Feb 8 Polaris $978
Mar 8 Polaris $1778
Apr 2 Polaris $2028
It gets interesting here:
April 24 - I upgraded a completely different United ticket/segment to Premium Plus
United alorithm: Aha! She's willing to pay for Premium Plus, so let's make that affordable....
April 28 Polaris spiked to $2853
April 28 Premium Plus dropped from $669 to $375, which I paid
(later that same day)
United algorithm: we got all we can get from her, let's move on...
April 28 Polaris spiked to $5085, I kid you not!
United algorithm: we still have 30 Polaris seats available, let's try her again
May 13 Polaris drops back $2206
United algorithm: still lots of Polaris seats, ok, how about this....
Jun 9 I flew home on a completely different United ticket
Jun 9 Polaris drops further to $953
So, now when I upgrade one flight, I check others.
And when I travel on one ticket, I price check the others.
Going to Europe:
I always fly Basic Economy taking the overnight non-stop flight from SFO arriving in FRA or Paris CDG ca. 10:00 AM, usually with United, regardless of it reputation, Air France, Lufthansa or British Airways to LHR or Gatwick.
Never 1st class or business, unless I am upgraded to that at check-in, happened twice,.... pure chance, ( a very pleasant surprise indeed), both times with Lufthansa , SFO to FRA.
I book directly with the airlines, no travel agent, the last time in 2007. In the future flying into AMS or Zurich or Vienna is a possibility.
The paramount reasons behind my decision are: 1. the airfare in Basic Economy , and 2. the dep / return times, 3. if both legs are non-stop. I calculate on a flight of 11 hours going over , put up with that and sleeping at least 5-6 hours to arrive fit and ready. I don't get jet lag.
Basic Economy is a fare class with restrictions on baggage, seat selection, and changes.
That's exactly what I was referring to, the fare class called (on United) Basic Economy. Those fares (on United) include the restriction that they can't be upgraded, whereas the "Economy" (fare class) can be.
To me, the term "Basic Economy" means:
At least that's what I think the term "basic economy" means on most airlines. No?
Granted, it's popular. The traveling public has very clearly and repeatedly told the airlines (via their purchasing choices) that they only care about one thing, and that's the absolute lowest possible price, to the exclusion of all other considerations. The airlines have received that message and adjusted their business models accordingly.
(Though, judging from how much grousing there is about the poor quality of the flying experience nowadays, maybe some of those folks may not really be completely thrilled with the experience that low prices bring...obviously, others are perfectly happy with it.)
Another cranky arthritic senior here. I fly business class to Europe. I use my Westjet cc for everything, so if I fly to Europe every 2 years, I may have to spend the equivalent of an economy fare to top up my Westjet dollars to business class. I arrive well rested and can hit the ground running. Very little jet lag.
Because I travel solo, I don’t want to fall asleep and drool on the person next to me….or them on me.
get air conditioning for my pickup truck
But what on earth would you do with a pickup truck in Budapest? Turn it into an air conditioned food truck?
I still choose to fly economy when I am paying for a flight. Usually a business class ticket is several thousand dollars more than an economy ticket. That will cover a week or more of vacation for me. I can easily suffer for 8 hours on a flight in order to have the funds for an additional week of vacation. Usually within a day of arrival I have completely forgotten about my discomfort during the flight.
To make economy more tolerable, for the last 20 years I have nearly always started my trip in London and I have taken United's daytime flight that left Dulles around 8:30am and arrived in London about 9pm. I cannot sleep on planes and flying during the day has made the flight tolerable. Unfortunately, United has removed that flight from the schedule for all of next year. They have done that in the past during the winter months, but people on Flyertalk have reported that their daytime flights from IAD to LHR for next summer were cancelled so it may be permanently gone. I'm pretty unhappy about this. United has removed the best flight to Europe (IMO) out of Dulles.
I have been saving my frequent flyer points so that I can fly business class to destinations that are further afield. I have a business class ticket to New Zealand next year that was booked on points; that flight will involve more than 20 hours of transit time. I can get to Europe in 8 hours, so don't want to waste points for business on those shorter flights.
CWSocial, Thanks for the explanation on United upgrades. I didn't realize that they changed so frequently. I'd seen offers to upgrade at the time of booking and also received emails about upgrades close to departure, but didn't know there were more times to check. I took an offer to upgrade from economy to premium economy for 20K points last year, but most of the offers I see are more than I am willing to pay.
took an offer to upgrade from economy to premium economy for 20K points last year
And Laura, I've never seen a change in the United cost in points for an upgrade, regardless of the $$ cost.
I tried once to use points for an upgrade and gave up when it was clear from the upgrade list that I was never going to clear. Now that I know that I can sometimes get United Premium Plus for $375, I've never been willing to use points again. I'll use my points on some upgrade where the $$ cost is just too high, and the points are still 20K.
I can get to Europe in 8 hours, so don't want to waste points for business on those shorter flights.
I'm not sure I'd upgrade to fly from the east coast either!
My typical flights are from Idaho to Seattle and then either to Schilphol or CDG with a connection there to another city. So long flights.
I fly Premium Economy and always get an aisle seat. That helps me purposely get up to walk up & down the aisle every two hours. I’m tall, so the extra legroom in the bulk head seats are appreciated. I have been upgraded to the sleep flat business class a few times in the past during work trips and a couple of times from my previous mileage status. But, when I’m paying for the ticket, I don’t want to pay the extra money for the business class luxury; I would rather spend that money in Europe during my trip.
I do look at the price to fly over a few days and may go a day or two early to get a better price. For my trip next May, I’m using Delta miles to pay for that trip. That’s probably my last significant amount of miles to use up.
Flying United the boarding pass has "Basic Economy" in caps at the bottom. True, it is the absolute cheapest price, rock bottom, ie no refund, no upgrade or anything else. You give up any bits of luxury or comfort in Basic Economy.
You take the seat assigned to you at check-in, which I always did pre-pandemic. This trip I decided to pay the $ 35 on-line so that I could choose an aisle seat, much more preferable than being "squished" in a middle seat, which I've found myself at times on the 11 hour flight pre-pandemic.
CW, old habits hard to break.
And if you book a basic economy seat, please make sure you can accept what you booked.
Yes, you may actually be stuck in a middle seat in the back. Sure you could get lucky and get a better option but you have no guarantee of that. If having a specific seat is important to you this is not a good option.
No, no one else on the plane has to change seats with you so you can sit next to your spouse because you can’t be separated for eight hours.
No, they will not give you another flight because the overhead bins are now full and you’re going to have to check your carry-on. Yes, I’ve actually seen someone ask for that- they wanted to be rebooked on another flight where there was room for the carry-on
One of my neighbors is a gate agent for Delta. You should hear the stories he tells about people who book basic economy, and assume they’re going to somehow miraculously wind up in business class because they heard that you get whatever seats are left. Yeah, you do in the back. They have heard every story you can think of to make up to get yourself a better seat and they’re not falling for them. No they don’t believe you know the president of the airline personally, no, they don’t believe you you have a health condition that prevents you from sitting in a middle seat, no, they don’t believe your spouse will cheat on you if you can’t sit together for a eight hour flight. (he said on that last one it took everything he had not to suggest marriage counseling.)
We fly economy (main cabin, not the basic) or comfort plus. We have loads of air miles, but only use those for flights that are expensive. We never use them to upgrade. We are not picky and are fine with economy. I will sometimes pick travel dates based on which days have cheaper flights, but it all depends. We are looking ahead to next Christmas and going back to thee Christmas Markets, and that will be using points. I used them last year for a girls trip for the 3 of us.
Even when my husband was flying to Germany monthly (pre covid), he never did business/first class. He would not spend company money for something like that. Many times he got upgraded, but at no cost. Actually, most of the time he gets upgraded. I am not as fortunate;)
Even for domestic flights, we go economy almost always. Once, I was at the airport, exhausted from eldercare, and they had one seat available for like $60 for first-class and I took it. I am flying first class next month to go see mom, but the only reason is that I got a new knee a few weeks ago and wanted the extra room to maneuver. I have used miles often for domestic flights, and have scored a few times and been able to go between SEA and OAK for 5k miles each way!
When you are an under educated bumpkin you do dumb things like hit “delete” instead of “edit”, so I have to start over. But this time I will attempt to keep it shorter.
But after reading some of the other posts, I feel a bit like a selfie stick person in their eyes. For the record, I rarely use my selfie stick, but when I do, I am glad I have it.
Being Texan PWT and loving to travel means I gotta go cheap and that means the cheapest economy ticket available with a few exceptions. Sometimes that called Basic Economy sometimes they have equally as poetic a name for it.
The exceptions are 1 layover (2 to 4 hours) and I get to pick the seat which is permitted on many carrier cheap tickets, but not all - so sometimes I have to upgrade to semi-cheap. Some airlines even have four categories of economy ranging from Rich Folk Economy to PWT Economy!
The seat has to be in the first 20 rows as beyond that is a place that just looks scary when the lights are off. I dont know a cheap economy fare that forces you into the back of the plane. I also want an aisle seat and on the long haul it has to be in the center section. Nicer folks in the center section. I generally pick a row where the opposite seat is already sold. I can not remember the last time I had someone in the center seat when I did that. It’s the worst seat on the plane and sells last. So with center seat arm rest up I have a nice wide seat; PWT version of Premium Economy. I am only 6 foot tall so my knees never hit the seat in front so that’s not a concern. I just lean the seat back and sleep. Occasionally I will gamble on a flight that doesn’t appear too full and buy the aisle seat on an empty row. When that works out I can sleep across three seats; PWT version of Business Class.
Upon returning from a trip I have to build up a few government checks before I can buy another ticket so I rarely am able to purchase more than 90 days in advance. I know what people say, but I don’t think it has cost me much if anything.
Since I am underemployed the dates of travel are flexible so I use the Google Flights chart that shows the cheapest Departure and Return dates for the trip I want to make. I pick the cheapest combo and check it out first and move up the list till one works.
I do have one of those fancy point credit cards from Merrill Lynch (we have a deal where they pay the fee on it or I would not keep it), but when you only by groceries you don’t build up a lot of points so I save those for special things once a year. I also belong to every airline club, but when you fly what ever carrier is the cheapest you don’t build up a lot of points there either. I am Delta Tin right now with hopes of making Iron, Steel, Aluminum then Silver before I die.
Most airlines to allow the cheapies to change flights. Some charge a few hundred for the privilege but the ticket is a few hundred cheaper so it’s all the same. I have changed one flight in the last 10 years so I think I am ahead on that one. They almost all allow carryon, which is what I do anyway, don’t need a checked bag. Once I did pay extra for the checked bag, still cheaper than the upgrade cause I just checked it one way then tossed it out and came back lighter. Don’t misunderstood me, I don’t care about traveling light, I just don’t enjoy ticket counters and to be honest one pair of jeans and a Budweiser t-shirt will last a few weeks. And, never in my 3 or 4 flights a year have I not found space in the overhead for my carry-on. Even though I am boarding group 37.
CW, sorry our discussion of air condition my peekup truck got lost. Two more trips and I will have saved enough for the task. Who would imagine the air-condition would die after a mere 35 years?
Tom_MN: United BE allows a carryon. The problem is that they load last and the bin space will already be full for some of those people in BE.
We fly economy most of the time, though occasionally will book or be upgraded to economy plus. Before the pandemic my husband flew a lot for work and he would often get upgraded when he was solo. Since we are usually traveling with our kids I am just fine with being in economy. I like the Iceland Air flight to Europe since 7 hours for the first leg doesn’t feel terribly long in an economy seat, and then we have a break before our next flight. I book economy standard so that we can check bags if needed. We save our miles for when it’s an expensive trip for the 4 of us or when we need a more flexible booking option.
Tom_mn: you are right about no carryon in domestic BE. I only use United on international routes, so I hadn’t picked up on that. For domestic flights through my regional airport, AA is usually the better option
@syd - I finally found my old order. Here's the little "faux foot-rest" / hammock I got.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B078HD6LQX/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
"Sleepy Ride - Airplane Footrest Made with Premium Memory Foam - Airplane Travel Accessories"
Thank you Kim! Just ordered!
I also want an aisle seat and on the long haul it has to be in the center section. Nicer folks in the center section.
Hmmmm, I've never tested this. (I also always reserve an aisle seat, and sometimes in the center section. But I've never tested the nicer people in the center section theory !!)
But very true!
35+ years ago when I worked full time I flew ALOT and had the highest status on both United and Delta at the same time. Those were the days of international upgrades. Those miles are long gone. Now I'm retired and my home airport is Seattle. I fly Alaska or one of its partners. Fortunately my husband still works part time and has status on Alaska so we at least get the option of exit row seats or if regular economy, seats in the front half of the plane. And we board in the "B" group so we get bin space. Last year I made a short mileage run to get status for this year. I needed 300 miles and it cost me $90. I think it was worth it.
Kim, thanks for the "foot hammock" link. I'll ask for one for Christmas.
Regarless of the terminology used. our experience has been that once we upgraded to a higher (and more expensive) class, we now find it difficult to go back to plain vanilla. But then we can't take the money with us, and all the relatives have enough of their own. So......
On international flights, typically we fly economy or economy comfort+, never basic economy as we want to collect the miles for future flights. We have, on occasion, flown biz class on the way TO europe--it is nice to get some sleep on the way over. But we only chose this option if we've found a good deal. As we fly from SEA or BOD (Bordeaux) most of the time (occasionally YVR, Vancouver BC), Delta and their partners (Air France/KLM) are typically who we use. Right now, Delta is charging an exorbitant amount for tickets so we've had to get creative with dates/times/locations. For example, for our summer 2024 trip we are looking at flying to LHR (Delta has a non-stop flight from SEA to LHR now) instead of CDG or AMS because of the tickets prices due to the Olympics (we are some of the crazy people who have tickets to some of the games so I set myself up for this chaos. Lol.) From LHR/LGW we can take a commuter flight down to BOD. Thankfully we have flexiblity with dates, times.
We also stick with Delta (and it's partners) to accrue miles. So far we've been able to get 2 international rt tickets and 2 domestic rt tickets for my husband and I each year just using miles. I have yet to try Premium Select but my husband has and liked it. I try to get us the bulk head in Economy Comfort+ as it does give my husband more leg room. Not sure it helps anyone rest any better but it is nice for stretching the legs.
Very true....United does allow one carry-on, which I did this time. Getting a "satisfactory" seat without cost basically depends on your luck at check-in.
At check-in pre-pandemic on United you are assigned a seat (free) as long as you're willing to take what's given to you., aisle or the middle. I always asked if anything else was available , ie an aisle seat, other than the middle one assigned and/or one to the rear as far back as possible. Several times I did luck out getting the aisle seat in the rear at no extra cost. Pure chance. Other times I had to settle for the middle...not really satisfactory.
Apart from those two lucky occasions upgraded to Business class (above), I've flown only Basic Economy in 50+ years of flying , both internationally and domestically, ie, going the cheapest way possible, which were sometimes barely tolerable: middle seat, bad food, narrow seat, cramped leg space, etc.
I was thinking about trying a foot hammock, then I read a review saying you really shouldn't use one in an aisle seat. I imagine a flight attendant would be likely to insist it be taken down.
How about “Lowest of the Low Economy” to explain the most basic ticket.
I flew with that for years and years in long haul, until last September I upgraded last minute on checking in ($$$) to a Business Class lie flat seat in KLM.
Had never flown in that class and wanted to try it just once in my life.
Treated myself.
It was spectacular, and the wrong thing to do as now I can never fly long haul economy again!!
Spoiled!
That trip, I returned in Economy and it was truly dreadful (KLM).
Put me off KLM for ever more.
Next trip was Premium Economy on Air Canada which was really lovely.
My upcoming trip is in Premium Economy on BA using cc points.
We’ll see if it lives up to AC.
Short flights are fine in Economy.
As someone said, spend the money at our age, what are we waiting for.
As I’ve gotten older I have migrated from the back of the plane towards the front. I fly out of CLE and usually fly United or Delta. I’ve been going to Europe twice a year but now prefer to only make that flight once, so the money saved from the second trip can pay for business class. I don’t mind business class going over and economy plus or comfort+ coming home. In the past I’ve tried premium economy on both United and Delta and honestly think a well picked economy plus or comfort+ is just as good for the flight home. I was never able to sleep in premium or economy plus/comfort+ going over at night but always seem to sleep well coming home during the day. Go figure. I find I can sleep at least 4-6 hours in business going over and that makes a big difference. I’ve been taking a few additional trips in the US/Canada and use the miles I earn on my European trips to fly free domestically. I just got home yesterday from a long weekend in NYC, trip to the Canadian Rockies this past September, LA next March for a cruise to Mexico all on free tickets. The only time I’ll fly economy now is for short, one-hour flights like to NYC, Chicago, DC. I find the regional jets with the 2-2 configuration are fine for this. Any longer, I upgrade.
How about “Lowest of the Low Economy” to explain the most basic ticket.
I’ve think the term ”Economy Minus” ( used by many frequent flyers to describe the Basic Economy class) is a good descriptor.
Haha.. I like “Economy Minus”!
For my ground transportation, I have a 2005 Lexus SC430- has always run great and still🤞🤞🤞isn't requiring much maintenance beside synthetic oil changes.
For my air international transportation, from the West Coast, I chose business class.
I think it evens out.
For the last ten+ years, my average cost for BC runs around $2200. I've paid $1650 RT and up to $3400 RT (once). We have done a BA companion pass once, and just watched for sales. Our BC flights to Amsterdam for April 2024 were $1850 RT each. I hope to continue to be so lucky.
The kids don't need an inheritance. We will provide for the dogs.
Wishing Safe- (and reasonably priced ) transportation to all!
Many, probably most, of the bottom tier tickets do allow you to choose your seats. Most charge extra and that can be $15 or $100 a flight leg. You have to do the math and see which level is most economical for your needs.
Rather than a lot of speculation I googled two trips on the 3rd of March. Boy prices have dropped!
IAH to AMS
United
$366 Basic Economy: Seat Selection for a fee, no upgrades, no refunds, free carryon, checked bag $75
$546 Economy: Free seat selection, Free change, upgrades available, no refunds, free carryon, free checked bag.
$1,444 Economy Plus: Free seat selection, Free change, upgrades available, no refunds, free carryon, free checked bag.
KLM
$712 Light: Seat Selection at checkin, no refunds, changes for $199 fee, free carryon, checked bag for a fee.
$802 Standard: Free Seat Selection, Free changes, no refunds, free carryon, free checked bag.
$934 Standard Plus: Free Seat Selection, Free changes, no refunds, free carryon, free checked bag.
IAH to FRA
Lufthansa
$416 Light: $199 to rebook, no refunds, free carry on, checked bag for a fee, seats when you book
$596 Basic: Free rebooking, no refunds, free carry on, free checked bag, seats when you book.
$2,695 Flex: Free rebooking, refunds, free carry on, free checked bag, seats when you book.
$2,371 Premium Basic: Free rebooking, no refunds, free carry on, TWO free checked bags, seats when you book.
$2,521 Premium Flex: Free rebooking, refunds, free carry on, TWO free checked bags, seats when you book.
$6,000 Business Class
Thanks for the info on United.
Regardless how it is labeled or described , when I choose the absolute rock bottom price in Economy I expect no frills, be they no refund, pertaining to the one carry-on allowed , or seat location.
If seats are still available far to the rear at check-in, the airlines have accommodated me when I ask if any seat is available way in the back. Of course, then it should not be any surprise that I'll be boarding in Group 4.
Flights to Europe tend to be 9-10 hours from where I live, and unless we are going to London or Amsterdam (or Rome during certain months), we almost always have to have a layover after that. However, I just can't bring myself to pay the cost of Business Class, although I did it once. It was our first time flying after Covid started, overnight to Amsterdam, and I successfully bid for an upgrade. I regretted it, because the plane was half empty, and we probably would have been able to lie flat in Economy, too.
We got bumped to Business once (on Lufthansa, from Munich back to Canada), which was wonderful.
Usually, we fly Economy, but I always prepay for seat selection (now that that's an "extra"), because, as an introvert, I really, really don't want a middle or aisle seat.
However, our next flights are to/from Taipei (with a layover in Vancouver), on our way to Vietnam (but we'll stay a few days in Taipei first). We sprang for Premium Economy because of how long the flight is (~13 hours), and it's an overnight flight outbound. Of course, I looked at Business Class first, but even under the circumstances, I couldn't bring myself to pay the enormous price.
That's funny - as an introvert, I really really want an aisle seat. I want to be able to get up and move when I wish rather than having to ask someone else.
I want
-- an aisle seat
-- NOT a bulkhead seat
-- NOT near the lavatories !!
As for "economy minus," that sounds fitting !!
If I'm next to the window, I can basically "shut out" everyone and give myself some space (and possibly sleep) by leaning against the window.
Two years ago, we were unable to check in or select seats in advance on a Westjet flight from London (after a flight to London from Venice). I tried calling to see why we couldn't check in or do anything, but was put on hold for hours and hours, and gave up. Anyway, I ended up in a middle section, aisle seat, near the lavatories. I was miserable, because everyone kept brushing against me on their way to the lavatories, or, worse, essentially standing over me, putting their hands on the back of my seat, etc., (not to mention the young men seated behind me who were ordering drinks the entire way so they wouldn't have to mask--and the flight attendant was encouraging them :( ).
I feel much better in the window seat, and since I hardly ever get up to use the facilities on a flight, I don't have to bother anyone else or have to keep getting up to let people by.
For those of you who do Business (or Economy + Miles Upgrade) going East and Economy returning West, how do you book this? Do you use an agent or call the airline directly? I don't see any way to do this booking via websites.
Well, I do Business going in any/all directions (if the flight is long enough, ie crossing an ocean), but the answer is the same: book everything as a separate, one-way flight. I don't think I've booked a "roundtrip" ticket for decades, because IME there's no meaningful benefit to do so (and there are benefits for booking one-ways, namely flexibility). So, jkh, book a one-way for your outbound flight going east (in whatever class you want), then book a separate westbound flight to return (again, in whatever class you want). The two itineraries are completely separate, pick and choose details (class of service, airline, etc.) as you like.
Always book directly with the airline (online...they'll usually charge you a fee if you call to book). You don't want anyone/anything in between you (in your way) if you need to make any changes or if something goes sideways.
Business class if I have enough miles going to Europe, never with cash. I check the dates - with American there can be a huge difference between one day and the next - over twice. I also found that the miles needed could vary between the times I look. Low then high and fortunately low again when I hurried up and reserved!
Thanks to all who responded with an approach that includes two one-way tickets rather than a single round-trip. Here's my confusion...when I look at my planned dates, each one-way is significantly more than the single round-trip. What am I missing?
On some airlines round trip is not much different than the one way price. It makes no sense to any normal person.
I mean, spend it if you’ve got it, sure. But let’s try not to be smug about the generational economic disparity that’s been systemically created over the last 50 years.
TOTALLY AGREE!
We fly economy and increasingly basic economy because we don’t usually need to cancel or whatnot. I don’t see a lot of sense for us to use our own money to pay for premium economy or business. The added features do not justify the cost. Now, we might use points to upgrade but we’ve never done that but it is an option.
For leisure travel, we do it off-peak.
But let’s try not to be smug
about the generational economic disparity that’s been systemically
created over the last 50 years.
What does that even mean?
I mean, spend it if you’ve got it, sure. But let’s try not to be smug
about the generational economic disparity that’s been systemically
created over the last 50 years.
Oh, please. 🙄 Both of my children paid off their mortgages before they reached their mid 40s. DH and I were well into our 60s before that happened. If anything, they are more financially secure than we are (although we are fine) . They are the ones telling us to spend their inheritance and to leave anything left over to the grandkids. If you have a need to support your adult children, then you should do what you need to do. But let's not tell everyone else how they should or should not spend their discretionary funds.
I got curious and did a bit of reading. 40 year old people this year do have less wealth than did 40 years old's 20 years ago. But nothing I read wanted to tackle the question why. One reason may have something to do with the number of under 40's you see traveling Eurooe these days ... maybe they spent it all?
I think the cost of a college education has gone up faster than the rate of inflation; being burdened by college loans makes it tougher to save when you're just getting started as a 20-something. The elimination of private-sector pensions is no doubt a concern for younger folks who are paying attention.
I have a theory that it may be somewhat harder for young folks to start saving because there are quite a few rather costly things now considered nearly essential that didn't even exist when I was a child. Examples include cable TV and streaming services, smartphones, personal computers and internet access.
MisterE--I think there are different reasons. One, pensions for the most part do not exist anymore. The cost of buying a home has increased exponentially. Our kids are 30 and 32 and bought their first homes last year. Here in the Seattle area, prices are insane, and they were fortunate to be able to do it all on their own. Neither of them has cable, our daughters phone will have to be replaced soon only because it will no longer be supported by Apple as it is too old, they make their coffee at home, etc. Our daughter just had to put a new roof on her house, so a new mortgage and a new roof, ouch! At least the new car she bought 3 years ago is paid off. Same with our son, except he had to buy a new one last week, but paid mostly cash for it. Both of the kids travel quite a bit, but use miles and are quite frugal.
mikliz97, of course you are correct. But come to think of it, when I was 30 I had neither cable nor cell phone. Seriously, I understand.
MisterE--Same here, but then again cell phones were just coming out when I was 30, and they were those huge ones in battery pack bags. We never had cable growing up, even when I was in college and I don't think we got it until we couldn't get basic channels without unless there was an antenna. We have never and HBO etc. Our kids are fortunate and have no student loans. Our gift to them was paying for their college educations. Most of their friends are not in that situation though. The kids are still on our cell phone plan since it's cheaper, but they pay us each month for that.
Back to the subject of flying...
To minimize jet lag, I try to find day flights overseas from JFK or BOS or ORD. Then, I don't mind an economy seat, as I'm awake reading, etc.
Or, I try to find a Dreamliner plane. I find the change in pressurization to be very helpful in mitigating jet lag:
https://www.businessinsider.com/boeing-787-dreamliner-777x-cabin-pressure-jetlag-2016-9
Julie, if that is true (and it makes sense to me) there are some pretty common blood vessel dilation drugs that are sometimes used by armatures in high altitudes.
I always fly economy, no matter if it’s for work or fun. Sometimes, I treat myself to a seat upgrade with points on long flights. 😊
I fly the day flight from Boston to LHR on British Air (BA). If I can upgrade, maybe with points, to their World Traveler Plus (WTP), I'm happy. I am particularly more apt to do this on solo trips. Otherwise, I'm in economy where I pick an aisle seat where a window seat has already been chosen in hopes of the middle seat remaining empty, which it often has. I can read or listen to an audiobook just as easily in economy as in WTP.
When I get to LHR in the evening, I have booked with points my room at the Sofitel, which adjoins Terminal 5. I only fly into and out of T5. Sleeping in a real bed in a real room is my cup of tea. I then fly to my destination, refreshed and with no jet lag. Last May I made the mistake of taking an overnight flight to Madrid in Business Class. No sleep and days of jet lag. It was miserable so I'm unlikely to do that again. Now that I've moved to Cape Ann, I also get a hotel room at Boston's Logan Hilton with points, which is attached by jetway to both Terminal A and E.
This is my first class travel, but so much less expensive than the airline's first class.
I'm sure I don't use my points correctly or in a cost efficient manner, but it works for me so far.
To those who are doing daytime flights, you're saying you can get to sleep at your Heathrow hotel (say, by midnight?) and the get up the next morning to travel on to Europe with no ill effect of the time change. IMHO one aspect of jetlag is the poor sleeping and sitting for 8+ hours on the jet and the second being in a new time zone 6+ hours ahead of your home zone. The third is drinking on the flight, which I never do (anymore!).
I am retired and typically spend at least 3 weeks in UK & Europe when I head that way. So, the idea of taking more time to get where I'm going in order to reduce jet lag seems to be a great idea.
I fly Economy Plus and reserve a bulkhead seat on the aisle so I don't have anyone in front of me reclining their seat. I like the extra legroom and the ability to just stand and stretch my legs at my seat during the flight. It costs a bit more but not nearly as much as Business or First Class.
I've used miles for free flights but not to upgrade. I've never flown to Europe in First Class or Business class.
@jkh, Yes, that is what I am saying. I do try to plan my flight leaving Heathrow for 11:00 or later…but that is just me because I don’t want any stress in the morning.
To those who are doing daytime flights, you're saying you can get to sleep at your Heathrow hotel (say, by midnight?) and the get up the next morning to travel on to Europe with no ill effect of the time change. IMHO one aspect of jetlag is the poor sleeping and sitting for 8+ hours on the jet and the second being in a new time zone 6+ hours ahead of your home zone.
When I take the daytime flight, it eliminates the sleep deprivation factor. There is still have the 5 hour time difference, but I find it much easier to cope with that being well rested. I usually take a flight that leaves Dulles at 8:30am and arrives in London just before 9pm. I take the tube to my London hotel and am checked in before 10:30pm. I usually get to sleep by 1am or 2am and let myself sleep in a bit on the first day. I set the alarm for 9:30 am and have a leisurely morning. After that, I usually feel pretty good the rest of my trip.
Next time I need to buy a flight to Europe I'm going to try one of those daytime flights. They are very appealing to me & it makes a lot of sense.
I fly way more domestically but I do take 2-3 cross country flights. I'm usually flying AA because I'm near a hub. Their main cabin extra is hit or miss for me & I don't think I'll get it too often in the future. I'm carry on only & the past few flights there has been no overhead bin space in my row or forward. That means waiting for people to deplane. One of my biggest pet peeves.
Longer flights like to Europe I typically fly regular coach. I once used miles to upgrade to business class but I found it rather noisy with everyone getting drink refills etc. I slept less than I would back in coach.
I'm an aisle seat person too & use many of the same techniques Mr. E mentioned. I sometimes wouldn't mind the window seat as I enjoy looking out but I need easy bathroom access nowadays.
I only use points over paying if I'm getting good value for my points. There is somewhere on The Points Guy where you can plug in all the numbers & see the value.
I typically have an idea where I'm going more than 1 year out. I may not be finalized on the destination but I typically have picked out a few places. I'll set up Google flight alerts right away & buy when my gut tells me to.
I always have several Google Flight alerts going for anything on my wish list. Domestic & Intl. I sometimes get 6 emails a day from them. I find the entire pricing system to be fascinating for some odd reason. There have been several times I wished I could jump on a deal but I am still working so often can't. Someday I will though.
Flying TATL I'm done w/ Economy. 6'2", broad shoulders and Nerd Neck-- I just don't fit in those seats. And coming from PDX on the the west coast means I'm looking at 9-12 hours getting over the Atlantic. It's either 10ish hours PDX-AMS on Delta or flying out of SFO, DEN, or ORD on Star Alliance. Note PDX to an East Coast hub adds 5 1/2 to 6 hours; ORD is marginal at four hours.
“To those who are doing daytime flights, you're saying you can get to sleep at your Heathrow hotel (say, by midnight?) and the get up the next morning to travel on to Europe with no ill effect of the time change. IMHO one aspect of jetlag is the poor sleeping and sitting for 8+ hours on the jet and the second being in a new time zone 6+ hours ahead of your home zone.”
I fly from a small airport in the PNW. If I’m lucky, I have one layover before a red eye flight. More likely it is 2. My preference is to arrive at my destination mid afternoon. I wander for a bit, have dinner, then hopefully get a good night sleep. I never sleep a wink on an airplane. The next day I’m good as new.
Reading this thread makes me realize that just as Rick has aged, his fans (myself included) have also. Many seem to be retired, with plenty of disposable income to spend on first class flights. I’m a good 15 years from that, so I still fly in economy. We like to book exit row seats where the doors are for more leg room. But I can’t justify paying 3-4 times for first class. That’s about what a whole other trip would cost us. We were bumped from a flight 20 years ago and flown home in first class on Air France. They also gave us $600 each. The entire 10 day trip cost us $800, so that was an amazing score.
