Help traveling around Italy for our Honeymoon

I guess I'm one of the few people here who didn't like CT that much and thinks Florence is one of the greatest places on the planet, but anyway you've already made your mind up about that :) The best way to get around Italy in most situations is by train. Take the high-speed where available, it's more expensive but much faster and more comfortable, but don't bother paying for first class. Check www.trenitalia.com (english button at the top) for all the schedules and pricing options. Sometimes you can get a discount by booking in advance, if you're sure of your travel times. It looks like your most "difficult" connection will be Vernazza to Spello, which will require multiple train changes and take from 5-7 hours. You could rent a car in La Spezia and drive there of course, but since you don't need a car for the rest of your trip, I would find that to be a pain but that's me. I haven't been to Spello so I don't know what their bus situation is like, but I'm sure you'd still have to get to Pisa or Florence by train before you could get a bus.

Dan, First of all, congratulations! Could you clarify whether your flight to Milan arrives at MXP? This is the method I'd use: > Airport to Milano Centrale - transport will depend on which airport you're arriving at. > Milano Centrale to Venezia Santa Lucia - travel via Frecciabianca (fast) train. Time 2H:35M, current base fare €36 PP, reservations compulsory (which will be included with the tickets). When you arrive at Venezia S.L. walk out the front door to the Grand Canal, and take the boat to your Hotel (details in the Guidebook). > Venezia S.L. to Vernazza - shortest trip I could find was a departure at 08:32, arriving Vernazza at 13:47 (time 5H:15M, 2 changes at Firenze SMN and La Spezia, first leg has compulsory reservations, last two legs via Regionale - DON'T forget to validate those tickets prior to boarding train!). > Vernazza to Spello - the trip I'd use departs Vernazza at 10:32, arriving Spello at 16:54 (time 6H:22M, changes at Monterosso, Pisa Centrale and Firenze SMN, reservations compulsory on second leg, other trains are Regionale - DON'T forget to validate!). > Spello to Rome - I'd use a direct train departing Spello at 11:34, arriving Roma Termini at 13:47 (time 2H:13M, current fare €9.60 PP, Regionale - DON'T forget to validate!). Which area of Rome is your Hotel located? If it's somewhat "distant" from Termini, taking a Taxi is usually the option I use. continued.....

Dan - Part 2.... In the same situation, I'd buy tickets to Venezia S.L. at MXP, and buy the remainder at the station in Venice, perhaps a day before you'll be travelling (once you're over jet lag). It might be a good idea to have your list written out (with Italian names and Train numbers) so that the agent clearly understands which trains you want. NOTE that tickets for reserved trains will "lock" you into a particular train and departure time. Changing them can be "problematic". Note that with the fast trains, you'll be assigned a Car No. (Carrozza) and a Seat No. (Posti). Be sure to sit in the assigned seats (otherwise the legitimate seat owner will ask you to move). If you're travelling with gargantuan luggage, you'll have to be quick with train changes. Often this involves going down stairs, through a tunnel (Sottopassagio) and then back up stairs to the next platform. That's one reason I always travel with a Backpack. Cheers!

thank you so much! this is insanely helpful.

I'm actually thinking about adding Florence back in and skipping Cinque Terre

Whether or not you go to Florence depends on your interests. Don't care about art or history? Don't go. However, I concur with Debra's lack of enthusiasm for the CT. They simply aren't in the same category with the truly great places in Italy. If you do go to Florence, reading up on the history of the Renaissance will help you to appreciate what you are seeing. Ross King's "Brunelleschi's Dome," is one book I can recommend. Having a car in Umbria is very convenient, and Spello probably doesn't present the problems with parking that some larger cities do. However, I haven't been there since 1997 (back in the last millenium!), so maybe someone with more recent experience will disagree.

Best wishes for a wonderful wedding and honeymoon! Repeating some of what Ken said, here are your options if you put Florence back on your itinerary. Milan-Venice: The 2nd class base fare on a high-speed train is €36.00. Booked in advance on the Trenitalia site, you can get a Super Economy fare as low as €9.00, but they sell out quickly. When the allotted number of €9.00 tickets are gone, the fare jumps to €19.00, etc. The tickets will be for a specific departure time and are non-exchangeable and non-refundable. Since you can't guarantee that your plane will arrive on time, you will either need to allow lots of extra time to make the connection from the airport to the train station or simply buy tickets at the station and get on the next available train. Venice-Florence: The base fare on a high-speed train is €45.00. The Super Economy fare, if available, is €9.00. Florence-Spello: Take a direct regional train. The 2nd class fare is €13.75. Spello-Rome: Take a direct regional train. The 2nd class fare is €9.60.

I just read your thread on the Fodor's board and see that you will be returning to Milan to fly home. The base fare on a high-speed train from Rome to Milan is €86.00. The Super Economy fare, if available, is €9.00.

Thank you so much Tim and others! This is very helpful

do you guys recommend booking trains in advance or waiting until you get there?

also, does anyone know if the "super-economy" fares are comfortable seats, or are these seats much cheaper due to the cheap price?

Based on what he has written on this thread and on other ones, I think it is safe to say that Ken likes to buy tickets as he goes so he can decide at the last minute which train to take. I prefer to save money by booking in advance, even though that locks me into specific departure dates and times. There is open seating on regional trains and no reservations are possible. Your ticket is good on any train. The only difference in seats is between 1st and 2nd class. Seating in 1st class is 2+1. Seating in 2nd class is 2+2. An economy fare ticket in 2nd class gets you the same seat as a full fare ticket.

Tim has it exactly right. There are first class tickets and second class tickets. Beyond that, the only difference is whether you save flexibility by buying them just before you go or save money by locking in the time earlier. The seats will remain the same.

full travel map here: http://bit.ly/LqxWwu, only parts we can change are Florence and/or Spello as Venice and Rome are non-refundable hotels.

@Tim, Your assessment of my current ticket buying practice is correct. These days I typically buy tickets either a day or two before I'll be travelling or when I arrive in a particular town (since I'm at the station anyway). One exception is tickets for travel on the EuroStar,, which I pre-purchased last year. I also had to buy tickets for East Coast Rail (Edinburgh-London) at the same time, in order to ensure that I'd be able to connect with the EuroStar. I've found that in Italy, locals and travellers have learned quickly about the Mini / Super Economy fares, so these are often sold out WELL in advance. I'd prefer not to "lock" myself into a particular departure and train weeks or months in advance, in case my plans change once I arrive there. It would be a huge annoyance for me to have to take time out from my touring to stand in a long queue at a ticket window to change the reservation. In Italy I usually buy tickets either at the Kiosks or at the ticket windows in smaller stations where queues aren't a problem. I sometimes buy Regionale tickets a day or two prior to travel if I figure I may be rushed on departure day. That way I just have to validate and I'm ready to go. I'm not as familiar with the discounted fares in Germany, France, Switzerland or other countries, so typically use the same practice there. Since I'm only buying one ticket, the higher cost of normal fares is not too much of a problem. For the last few trips to Europe, I've been trying to spend longer in each location, which means less moving around and less rail trips. Of course, my travel methods are all a "work in progress" so there are always a few changes every year. Cheers!

I'd go a bit farther than Ken does when he says that he prefers to buy train tickets a day or 2 in advance. I say absolutely do it, not from the U.S. and not weeks in advance, just a day or 2, when you are using regionale trains. I have several times been surprised at how long it actually took to complete such a simple transaction. You probably won't be able to use a machine to purchase tickets, as your credit card won't be a chip&pin. (See the lengthy discussion on this site, if you aren't familiar with the topic.) There may be a very slow moving line of people waiting for the services of the agent, and you don't want to miss your planned departure.