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Help! Train advice needed

Hi,

I'll be taking a trip to Europe in April with three of my college friends. We've got our plane tickets (flying into Rome), but now we're trying to figure out the best ways of transportation from place to place. We'll be going from Rome-Florence, Florence-Venice, Venice-Munich, Munich-Salzburg, Salzburg-Prague, Prague-Heidelberg, Heidelberg-Paris, Paris-London. My question is, is it more cost efficient to takes trains/planes/buses from place to place? Or would it be cheaper/easier just to get a rail pass? I know the rail pass doesn't include France, but I'm not concerned about getting to Paris and London.

I know trains within Italy are fairly cheap, flying from Venice to Munich would be faster, Prague is a little out of the way, and my cousin lives in Heidelberg, which is why we'll be visiting there, but I'm struggling to get a good estimate of train prices (too early?).

Any suggestions?

Posted by
11613 posts

You can check bahn.de for schedules for all your destinations, but only fares for trains beginning or ending in Germany will show. You can buy these tickets up to 90 days ahead at deep discounts but changes after purchase are restricted.

Italian trains are very inexpensive and you can purchase tickets up to 120 days ahead from Trenitalia or Italo, for inflexible tickets. A railpass for most European countries is not normally a money-saver; now every country has discount programs for its trains.

I will only fly from place to place if the train takes more than six hours. You need to factor in transportation to/from airports, waiting time, baggage restrictions, as well as the actual flight time.

Posted by
6898 posts

Meg, have you nailed down your precise travel dates? What dates in April are you planning? If yes, are you willing to accept non-refundable tickets on specific trains for serious discounts?

On Rail Passes, you don't need one for Italy. The fare from Rome to Florence is 43Euro on the very fast train. If you buy now in advance and you know your precise travel date, you can buy online right now at www.trenitalia.com for 19Euro (I can see the fare). Your fare from Florence to Venice is normally 45Euro. But, once again, I see the 19Euro non-refundable fare. Note that Trenitalia charges and extra 10Euro per train for Eurail passholders to ride their nicer fast trains.

For Venice to Munich, it's quite a train ride. 7.0-9.0hrs depending on the run. I can only estimate the fare at about 80Euro. Also, you will be going through Austria. If you had a railpass and it didn't include Austria, you would have to pay extra to ride through between Italy and Germany. For Munich to Salzburg, it's a 2hr trip. Fare is about 38Euro. BTW, you will have most likely passed through Salzburg on your way to Munich from Venice. I'll let others comment on the remainder of the journey.

Posted by
32352 posts

Meg,

A Railpass probably won't be the most cost effective choice, but you'll have to do some number crunching to determine the best option. You may find it very helpful to have a look at Rick's Rail website, which provides a rail cost planner, which will help you to get an approximate idea on the costs. You could also have a look at THIS website to get some idea of the best options.

Regarding each of your trips.....

  • Rome-Florence: use Freccia or Italo high speed (300 kmH) trains. VERY easy! If you're willing to commit to a specific travel time and date, you can pre-purchase tickets about 3 months in advance and possibly save money. Note that Italo uses different stations in Rome, and therefore Freccia might be the easiest choice. NOTE that each city has more than one rail station, so you'll need to be clear on the details before buying tickets!
  • Florence-Venice: Again, Freccia or Italo. Both use the same stations.
  • Venice-Munich: Flying to Munich wouldn't necessarily be faster. I'd use a departure from Venezia S.L. at 07:50, arriving Munich Hbf at 14:21 (time 6H:31M, one change at Verona PN, reservations compulsory).
  • Munich-Salzburg: A very easy trip via RailJet, as short as 1H:28M. Lee or one of the others can help further with information on ways to get cheaper regional tickets.
  • Salzburg-Prague: The easiest trip seems to be a departure from Salzburg Hbf at 10:12, arriving Praha hl.n at 16:21 (time 6H:19M, one change at Linz).
  • Prague-Heidelberg: I'd probably use a departure from Praha hl.n BUS station at 09:35, arriving Heidelberg Hbf at 16:48 (time 7H:13M, one change at Mannnheim and a 10 minute/300 M. walk to the rail station).
  • Heidelberg-Paris: One of the shortest trips is a departure at 09:13, arriving Paris Est at 12:50 (time 3H:37M, one change at Mannheim). You can get from Paris Est to the area where your hotel is located using Metro. It's sometimes a bit awkward with luggage, but certainly possible (I've done that numerous times).
  • Paris-London: EuroStar from Gare du Nord to London St. Pancras is of course the best choice. If you book really early, some cost savings are possible. However, the cheaper tickets are often non-changeable and non-refundable, so choose carefully! You can get further information on that trip using the excellent Man in Seat 61 website.

For researching all your rail trips, the bahn.de (German Rail) website is usually the best and most accurate source of information.

I should stress that I've only had a somewhat cursory look at your proposed Itinerary, so this is just a few brief thoughts on the trips you're planning to make. As April is only a few months away, it might be a good idea to pre-book at least some of your accommodations. If this is your first trip to Europe, it would be prudent to read Europe Through The Back Door prior to your trip, as that has a lot of good information on "how" to travel well in Europe. Use the country-specific Guidebooks to plan lodgings, transportation, sightseeing, etc.

Good luck with your planning!

Posted by
21155 posts

Tag team.

The fastest way from Venice to Salzburg during the day is a combination bus/rail offered by OBB, the Austrian National Railroad. Bus from Venice to Villach, Austria connecting to a train to Salzburg, 6 1/2 hours.

Salzburg to Munich, you can use a Bayern Ticket if you travel local trains after 9 am. 23 euros for the first person and 4 euros for each additional person.

Munich to Prague can be done with a Duetsche Bahn bus in 4 hours 39 minutes at 29 euros per person. (advance purchase nonrefundable)

Munich to Heidelberg can also be done with the DB bus in 7 1/4 hours changing to a local train in Mannheim. Same price as previous.

Heidelberg-Paris can be done by taking a local train back to Mannheim and catching the TGV to Paris at 49 euro per person, 3 1/2 hours.

And Paris to London, good old Eurostar, 2 1/2 hours. I'll let you get your own price for that one. Just google Eurostar.

Posted by
2829 posts

@Sam: ÖBB now has trains operating in Italy, no need for the buses anymore.

Posted by
19274 posts

I think Venice to Salzburg, Salzburg to Munich, and Munich to Prague makes more sense. However, check the best fares for both routes. Venice - Munich - Salzburg - Prague might be less expensive.

Whichever way you go, between Salzburg and Munich is 27€ for two with a Bayern0Ticket and regional trains.

There is an intercity bus from Munich to Prague for as low as 29€/person with advance purchase. You can also go from Munich to Prague for about 40€ for two with a Bayern-Böhmen ticket (no advance purchase required) and individual Czech Rail tickts from Pilsen to Prague (40€ total), although this way takes about 1½ hr longer.

You can use the same system (Bayern-Böhmen/Czech Rail tickets) from Salzburg to Prague via Landshut.

Posted by
19274 posts

If you are willing to get into Salzburg at 12 min before 10 PM, there is an all rail connection leaving Venice at 15:59. It takes 5hr 49 min.

The next fastest connection (6H29M) is the bus/train leaving Venice at 11:20, getting into Salzburg at 12 min before 6 PM.

Posted by
12040 posts

Let me add something to what everyone else has written. They have all posted price estimations for adults. Depending on your circumstance, you may qualify for youth or student discounts in certain countries.

If you don't know the name of the national passenger rail companies in the countries you plan to visit, look at the bottom of this Wikipedia page. It has links to an article on each country's rail operator, and each article should have a link to that company's website. The discounts available to youth and students vary from country to country, so you'll need to do some research to find out if you qualify and if it's cost-competetive for your itinerary.

The one thing I can tell you, however, is that a full cost, 3rd party rail pass (ie, Rail Europe or EUrail) is just about the single most expensive option, other than buying 1st class tickets for each leg of the trip.