Help! I'm feeling like a Eurail pass will be a waste of money

Is there another, cheaper option? Yes. Stop for a second or two in one or more places. I know you want to see it all but all you will see is the other people on the trains. You will not have enough time to see any more than a few things, you will be exhausted, and truly, I don't believe you will enjoy yourself. Also, you say you have a month but only have 25.5 nights. Are you missing some?

As Nigel says, you need to reconsider. Two nights in a town gives you one full day. You'll spend the other days checking out of Hotel A, schlepping your luggage to the train station, riding the train, schlepping your luggage to Hotel B and getting checked in. Looking at your itinerary I feel tired just reading it, and I move fairly fast myself. Everywhere on your list, aside from the CT, rates more time. In the case of Paris, Venice, Rome, Vienna, lots more time. (Yes, Venice - 1/2 day for Venice is almost criminal, lol.) Suggest spending some time with guidebooks figuring out what you want to see in each place, and then cutting back. Whether a rail pass will be cost effective depends - you need to figure out the cost of point-to-point tickets for your route (use seat61.com and follow the links for the country sites to price tickets). If you slow down a Select pass would probably be better than a Global.

I really hope that you have researched the length of time that you will be on the trains. You have some huge train journeys in your itinerary. For example, Cinque Terre to Murren is about 8.0hrs. Murren to Paris is about 7.0hrs with 3-4 transportation changes. Munich to Venice is 8.0hrs. Venice/Florence/Rome/CT will take you 9.0hrs-10.hrs if you take advantage of the fast trains. About 14hrs if you use just the Regionale and IC trains which are slower and much less expensive. In Italy, your pass will only permit you to jump on the Regionale trains without a supplemental reservation. You will need to stop at the train stations to pay the supplemental fees on the IC and Eurostar trains. With the itinerary you show, I'm betting that you will spend 25% of your waking hours on the train, in the train station waiting for a train, traveling to and from a train station or checking into and out of a hotel or hostel.

Liz, I definitely agree with the others - your proposed Itinerary is FAR too ambitious! It found it tiring just to read it! Have you already bought air tickets? If not, it would be a good idea to use open-jaw flights so that you don't have to return to Paris. That will save at least a day which you can add to your touring time. Regarding your original question, you'll need to do some "number crunching" to determine whether the Railpass with reservations will cost less than the price of P-P tickets. You might find it helpful to download the free PDF Rail Guide from this website (click the "Railpasses" tab at the top, and then look in the lower right corner). Happy travels!

You can, and should, open an Excel file to sum the cost of reservations +Eurail and compare it with stand-alone point-to-point tickets. This being said, I second other travelers here: you will spend 40% of your "awake" time moving from one place to another. If you plan to use lots of night trains, you will be tired and exhausted soon. One night train or other might to the tricky (though I fiercely oppose them as dangerous and giving a false illusion of time saving), but plenty of nights on tracks will just wreck your body, even if you are 18. Then, you have all the logistics of not only arriving in a city, but figuring out how to buy tranportation tickets, check in your new lodging etc. I honestly recommend you to reduce the number of destinations in your trip from 14 to 9 or 8.

Hate to break it to you, Liz, but I'm with the others. Looking at your loop, I'd cut Italy this trip. Always plan on going back. Like others have said, your travels days will give you enough time to find your hotel in the new town, check in to your hotel, and grab dinner. You'll have only one day in places like Rome, Berlin, Florence. Doesn't make it worth the time you've spent getting there.

Something has to go. Cutting Italy makes sense during the summer anyone can wilt from the heat. You could see more of France and Germany, which would be a lot cheaper than Italy as well, if $ is a concern. Or you can trim off the eastern segment - see Salzburg, but trim Berlin, Prague, Vienna - which would give you enough time to actually see some things in Florence and Rome, where summer lines can be pretty long. You don't say how old you are, but assuming you are a typical student who's under 26, if you include Italy and drop the east, you'd be losing Austria and the CZ Rep (you don't need a pass that includes Austria just to see Salzburg); maybe an 8-day 4-country youth selectpass at $463 each would work. If you drop only Italy and keep the east, an 8-day youth selectpass for 5 countries would be $501. You might want to substitute your stay in Frankfurt for a stay in the nearby Middle Rhine Valley, which is full of ancient castles and packed with hostels and inexpensive B&B's. This photo of Rheinfels Castle in St. Goar shows the villa-hostel (with "Jugendherberge" written across the front) in the lower left hand corner: http://static.rp-online.de/layout/showbilder/24756-2_burg_rheinfels_piel_media.jpg

If you're interested in staying in a Castle, you could also consider Burg Stahleck in Bacharach, which is on the Rhine. The Castle is an HI Hostel. It's located above town, so a Taxi would be a good idea when arriving, as the hike up the hill with luggage would be a bit of a chore.

I did my best to determine the value of a Eurail pass through Rail Europe over individual seat purchases, especially when the pass was offered a discount earlier this year. Today, I called to book actual seats and found that the reservation surcharges are substantial and not well disclosed. Our original pass cost was about $1800. Today's reservation surcharges were over $1000. The value that I had determined earlier from the pass is now LOST. I would have saved $400 by buying individual tickets rather than a pass. I complained to Rail Europe that its website is not transparent or accurate about the possibility of these reservation surcharges. Its representatives had no sympathy.

Johan Even for RE $1000 for reservations seems high. Most reservations are significant but not excessive. You must be doing a whole lot of First Class long trips and overnight trains. I guess you are not at all in countries which don't need reservations, such as BeNeLux, Switzerland and Germany, and not at all using regional trains. How do you get up to $1000? Or is that for a group of people?

I agree with everyone else. I just got back from a 3 wk trip that included 4 countries. It w as tiring and we didn't relocate every 2 days. All you're going to see eith these list is trains & stations. Don't underestimate the time it takes to get to a sight & then see it. The Effiel Tower will take you a min of 2.5 to 3 hrs since the ticket line will be at least 30-40 mins. Keep in mind that lots of places have security that will want to check any bags you have, so you don't want to sight-see with your backpack. If I had 30 days I'd 4 well-situated cities - one for each week (5 or 6 days). I'd use each as a base-camp for seeing the area & then move on. With a plan like P2P tickets probably make more sense. Fyi: if you go to Brugge, Belgium, ck out a hostel called Snuffels. I didn't stay there, but they wete down the street from our rental & we used their internet. They were very warm, friendly, & helpful. They were also quite busy. They were well located. Don't waste any time in Brussells. Joan

I'm going to be the dissenting opinion here - if the itinerary that you've posted is the one that YOU want, then go with it. Everyone is different, but I've found that people buying Rick's books for the first time are often times interested in whirlwind trips, whereas the very frequent posters on this board are interesting in forming a home base. The poster is a student, and students usually have one pack and like being on the move. I say go for it. So, assuming that you are going to stick with the itinerary then you need to do what an above poster suggested, open an excel file and start doing some # crunching. I've been on 3 trips to Europe; twice I bought the Eurail Saver Pass for my wife and me, plus the required reservations. It sure was easy doing that, rather than trying to jump through all the foreign websites to purchase 2nd class tickets months in advance (often what you have to do to get the best rate). Or you can wait and buy tickets once you are there; however since your itinerary seems rather fixed, it makes sense to have the security of a seat planned.

^^ that said, I would suggest that you pick at least two cities and spend 3 nights minimum in those. Spread them about 1/3 and 2/3s way through your trip. Having the longer stay every several days will let you catch your breath and give you time to do things like wash clothes if you need to. I'd say 3 nights in Prague and 3 nights in Rome, if your itinerary was mine. Also, your 1/2 day in Venice > 1 night in Sienna is probably not doable, considering your coming from Munich. Add the exact train schedules to your excel file to figure this out. Anything under 4 hours departing in the morning means you can probably do something late that afternoon and evening; over 4 hours and all you'll have left is time to dine before you go to sleep.

Liz, I'm going to take your side here...mostly because I'm doing the same "smooshed trip" kind of thing. 2 nights in Prague, 1 in Salzburg, 2 in Munich, 2 in Switzerland (TBD location), 2 in Paris and 2 in Bruges. We're going with the Eurail pass to save some of the headache since we are so compressed for time. Best of luck!

I'll have to agree with the rest of the posters here, in terms of your pace. My trip last year was 17 days (19, if you count travel to/from the U.S.), and at 6 cities, it was a bit of a whilwind. We visited Brussels, Budapest, Berlin, Prague, Munich, and Amsterdam, and it was definitely doable, but if I were to do it over again, I would have cut out one city. I will say that: even 4 nights in Berlin is definitely not enough, 2 nights in Prague is okay but could use another, and 2 nights in Munich is just fine (Munich is the city I would've cut from my trip, it was boring). To kind-of address your question: it's hard to provide advice when you have not specified which trains you plan on taking. Local? ICE? Does any of this involve a night train? Is it possibly cheaper to fly? The rail pass is a good deal compared to buying full fare for all of your trains. To compare it to any other type of fare you will have to fill in some blanks. High-speed trains will require reservation fees on top of the railpass. Night trains involve an even heftier required reservation fee. Some local trains are so cheap they aren't worth a day's value of a rail pass. If you can commit to a time/date, you can save a ton of money by buying in advance. These things make the rail pass an option only if you desire the flexibility of not being tied down to a specific train. But again...we don't know what types of trains you're taking so that is not an absolute guarantee.

"I will go to Rail Europe.com and price the cost of direct tickets and compare to Rail Passes." Then you will be looking at higher prices than you need to pay. You should check the sites for the train systems in the countries you will be visiting (links at seat61.com if not in your guidebooks). Not only are you likely to find more trains than those on the RE site, you'll often find special deals for booking in advance.

I will only limit myself to one country for a three week stay. Which is as long as my wife is willing to stay. Maybe two countries , if the countries are small. What you are doing makes me tired just thinking of your schedule. Just remember, you can always go back. I agree with a former response that stated you will spend most of your time on trains. As to Rail Passes, there is not much difference in cost than buying direct. They are much more convient and less of a hassel than buying direct. I will go to Rail Europe.com and price the cost of direct tickets and compare to Rail Passes.

Liz, A couple of hints on fine tuning your itinerary, either drop Italy or at least drop Rome. Also, it's not necessary to include CZ and Austria on the Pass, since you are only going to Vienna once on this trip. Now if you were to back track to Vienna after Florence, I would say to include Austria. I wouldn't rely on RaiL Europe but if you do, then take only the ICE, TGV, EC trains, not the local trains, take the RJ between Munich, Salzburg and Vienna. You 're going to be on some long rides, ie., 4 hrs (Berlin-Prague), Paris-Frankfurt, to almost 6hrs, which I myself have no problems with, day or night. but make sure you reserve for the Paris-Frankfurt leg, the others you don't need to, regardless of duration. You could also skip Frankfurt, then take the night train Paris Est to Berlin direct, thereby adding another day to Berlin. or take the Munich-Florence night train to have time for Florence.

I don't know how young you are, but you do state that you are a student. I am assuming you are a college student. I was in college once and me and my college pals liked to partake in a thing called binge drinking. Yep, pretty much it was a party til you puke scene. We all did it and were never ashamed of it. When I went on my first trip to Europe, I totally devoured the nightlife in Spain. Unfortunately, I missed out on a lot of awesome sight seeing as I did not wake up until afternoon and one time at 5pm (I could not believe it myself, but booze + travel exhaustion = me sleep long time). Not that I am accusing you of being a party animal college student, but I am taking into consideration the reality of the situation. If you are young, of age, having a blast in a foreign country where everyone dances the night away, your itinerary will be a big huge blur. You may even title your post, will my whole trip be a big waste of time and money. Now if my drinking scenario does not fit your description, I will apologize for assuming. But if not, consider the reality of super bad hangovers and then having to deal with the not so awesome part of transitioning into a new country/city/culture every 2 days. I would only do this itinerary if someone paid me. I learn every trip how valuable time is when you travel to a place like Europe. One can get away with 2 days in sleepy small towns, but most of your cities are big and intense. And doing it at this pace you are setting may be a mistake for you to learn from, but it will be an expensive mistake and I remember how poor I was in college.

... and many of us tried exactly the same type of trip at Liz's age and have since learned from our mistakes. Way back when, I actually changed my plans mid-trip. I wasn't seeing much and was spending too many daylight hours sleeping because I was too tired after 10 days of following an insanely frantic pace.

To all of you attacking Liz for her whirlwind trip. Have you ever read the itinerary of a RS best of Europe tour? They are a series of two night stands with an occasional one night stand mixed in. Liz won't get an in-depth view of any location and will spend a lot of time on the train. But that is kind of the norm for college student backpackers with a Europass. And time on a train is not a bad thing IF you can sleep on the train. Check out of hostel as late as possible (sleeping in). See sites until they close. Hit the bars scene, party until 5 am, catch a 6 am train that gets you to the next city at 3 pm. Sleep on the train from 6am to 2:30 pm. Tour the sites until they close, than party until the wee hour of the morning. That might not sound like a great itinerary for the AARP crowd, but that is exactly how many people Liz's age tour Europe.

This board cracks me up. Every time someone posts an itinerary that doesn't include either a home base or 5 night stays, everyone starts attacking. I'm sorry Kelly, but your post is completely unnecessary. Assuming that just because this poster is a college student that she will end up binge drinking her trip away is insulting. What I find funny is that so many of the "veteran" travelers admit to taking whirlwind trips when they were young (yet always claim they would have done it differently now). What a perfect example of the hypocritical "do as I say, not as I do" mentality. Liz - please have fun on YOUR trip. Good luck with the planning.

Do as I say, not as I do - that is being hypocritcal. Do as I say, not as I DID - that's called giving advice based on one's own experience. Nothing hypocritical about that, Marshall. Also, Kelly was very clear that she was not assuming Liz was like she was in college. That said, you are right, Marshall, that this is Liz's trip and she should do what she thinks she will enjoy the most. I would not want to take a trip where I was moving around every two days because I try to minimize the time spent in trains and planes. Sometimes, rookie travelers don't realize what this will be like when they are planning. Other people, like Marshall, enjoy zipping around a lot. To each his own. Hopefully, Liz will make the best decision for her and have a great time.

At my age now I don't travel with a home base, totally unnecessary. You just need to plan out the long rides, day or night. As for staying 5 full consecutive days in a city, that depends on a few factors, such as how hectic and pushing it I was do before arriving in that city, or maybe the sheer beauty and interest of the city warrants it. My first visits to Berlin, Prague, Vienna, Paris, Munich in the early 1970s were stays of 3-5 nights. As for staying at hostels now, those days aren't gone, I'm not adverse to rooming with people 1/2 to 1/3 my age, except I've become more picky in the choice of the hostel and its location, in particular. @Liz...drop two places from your present itinerary, or take 2 night trains, at least, so that you have the time to complete it.

I personally didn't feel like my post was unnecessary. I just wanted to give the poster insight as to what can happen when you are young in Europe and how it can effect your trip. I did apologize in my post if the poster was not like my scenario. The fact that many tour groups offer 2 day whirlwind is way different than a person not familiar with the area on a 2 day per city whirlwind trip. It can be done if you are completely organized with an itinerary down to the tee, and most everything pre-arranged including accommodations. On a tour You are on a leash being dragged from site to site, with a leader that knows where they are going. they know how much time you will need at a site. When brand new to Europe on a whirlwind trip, I think there is going to be less structure, less knowing where things are, less likely to pre-arrange accommodations for spontaneity, etc. But I guess all of this is in my own opinion. Everyone has a different travel style. Do we all need to do a trip like this for experience? maybe but why learn from your own mistakes when you can learn from others? I would much rather learn from other's mistakes than my own. Even my first 2 trips were not whirlwind. But on my 3rd trip to Europe I did a whirlwind trip to Germany, staying in 6 cities in 9 days. I really do not have much to show for that trip because it seems all I did was eat and drink beer as we would arrive so late into town, most sites were not open. I regret not taking my time in Germany when I do look back. And since, I have not done a trip like that. Not that having an eat and drink vacation is bad but I did miss alot of museums that I kick myself in the butt over.
. And I am Not saying the poster is making a mistake...........but maybe adding insight on how a trip like this could become slightly stressful when on such a tight time line. Regardless of what we all say, have a great time.

Look like a good whirlwind/survey tour to me. Siena and the CT are sort of nothing compared to the rest of the mix. Cutting Switzerland would ease the burden a bit more. Have at it. Do what you want. You asked a transportation question and you're being told how to live - - and I did it too. Horrible, the lot of us.

My whirlwind trip at age 33 was 4 weeks. I stayed 3-4 nights in London and Paris, then mostly 2 nights in the other places. I had a railpass comparable to today's Global pass. Reservations were not required on the trains I took, so I just got on trains and moved on. These days, reservations are usually required; that can take some of your time to arrange. I had a general idea of my itinerary before I started out, but had only one night (the first) reserved before I flew to London. I did not cover more than half of the territory proposed in this itinerary. I suggest pruning off about 1/3 of the cities. Maybe leave Eastern Europe and Berlin for another trip. Venice from Munich, 1/2 day doesn't compute. Two nights min Venice makes sense. Daytrips from cities such as Florence would cut down on moving so much. Do lots of research; get a list of hostels; get train schedules; get a good book (Let's Go, for example) for reference. Hostels can be booked as you go along by calling a day or two in advance. Tours can cover more ground quickly because everything is pre-arranged for you, so I wouldn't compare an independent tour with a commercial tour. I like both, but they are not the same.

Liz never asked for a critique of her itinerary or if she was traveling too much. She asked given her planned itinerary, would it be cheaper to buy tickets as she goes or if a Eurail pass would be best. I suspect given how much she is traveling the pass makes more sense than individual tickets it would have 20 years ago. I don't know about today. Anybody care to offer insight on the question Liz is asking if a pass or buying tickets as she goes it the best option for the tour she is taking? Or is this thread just going to be folks telling her she acting too much like a 20something student backpacker and not enough like a middle aged seasoned traveler?

To Liz - If you buy your passes and want to make reservations, don't do it through Rail Europe. Do it either in person once you've gotten to Europe, or do it in advance through a third-party like Euraide, which offers you local pricing for a fixed fee. Rail Europe doesn't have all the routes and their prices can be higher than what you'd pay locally often times. You won't need reservations on every train - the Bahn.de/english website will help you figure out which routes will need one. Get to know that website as it is your best resource. It's been my experience that given how many days you plan on traveling, the pass might be a good idea, not because of cost, but for simplicity's sake. Costwise, it'll probably be about the same.

If I once touched a live electrical wire, and at some point in my life I could spare someone else from doing the same - I certainly would. That's not being a hypocrite. It's being a fellow human being and sparing someone else certain pain and injury. This itinerary causes me actual, physical pain. You only allow one day in each of these places; sometimes, even less (Siena). Half a day in Venice?!?!? Between Munich and Siena?!?!? No. And No. Unless you're a very devoted journaler, you won't remember where you've been nor what you saw nor who you met. Maybe: 3 nights Paris, 3-4 nights in Munich (night train from Paris?), to Salzburg and Vienna for 2 nights each, then to Prague for 2-3 nights, then to Berlin for 2-3 nights, then cheap (or not) flight to wherever in Italy...let's say Florence. After 2-3 nights go to Siena (or add a day to Florence and day trip to Siena). Then on to Rome for 4-5 days. IF you have already purchased your airline tickets and have to fly in/out of Paris, then maybe go from Rome to the CT, then make your way to Paris (from Milan). I left out Frankfurt and Lauterbrunnen Valley. (cont.)

(cont.) For many night trains, having a railpass doesn't save you much money, and sometimes you actually pay more for your passholder fares than simply purchasing your ticket outright. You just have to go to each country's train website and price them out. Don't count on showing up at the station and getting a night train reservation for that week...They should be reserved from home, if you don't handle surprises well. $809 for a youth global pass (assuming you're under 26) seems high compared to point-to-point tickets, but I usually buy discounted fares well in advance and this trip isn't too far in the future. IF you stay off of the fancy-schmancy high-speed-type of train, you can reduce the # of trains that require reservations on top of your global pass. Your kind of trip is exactly what a railpass is generally great for - THAT'S the good news LOL!!! A railpass would probably be easier for you at this stage - either a youth global, or as someone else suggested, a flexi-pass or select pass...

Liz:
GO FOR IT! Treat Europe like an amusememnt park - each city/town/location is a different "ride" . If this is your only chance at Europe you'll never regret it. If this is your first time in Europe and you want to see as much as you can, it's a trip you can use to plan your next, more in-depth trip. Yes, you won't get to meet the locals, you won't get much sleep, you'll see a lot of the countryside from a train window, but at the end of each day, you'll have a drink and, exhausted, excitedly plan the next day. And I guarantee when you get home you'll be grinning for weeks. Get your rail pass, your back pack, your RS books, and JUST DO IT!

If reading someone else's itinerary causes you "actual physical pain" (your words not mine), then you might need to see a doctor. ;) Also, I don't think anyone has ever died from deciding have two-night stands in Europe, unlike touching an electrical wire. Again - ;) Finally, I'll repeat that this board cracks me up. Happy travels to all!

"Also, I don't think anyone has ever died from deciding have two-night stands in Europe, unlike touching an electrical wire. Again - ;)" No, I didn't die from it, but I was dead-tired, was spending far too much money, and seeing the inside of trains more than seeing Europe. As a 21 year old student who didn't have unlimited funds, I found it a most unsatisfying way to travel, and decided to completely change plans mid-way, at considerable cost. I'm glad I did it, only because it was a valuable lesson on how NOT to travel that I wish I had known BEFORE planning the trip. There was no Helpline in those days, after all. Ultimately, Liz can do whatever she wants, and I wish her a good trip.

Somethimes this board cracks me up, too. Sometimes I just crack-up... Liz, I can guarantee that nobody here wants to snuff your travel dreams. We just don't want them to turn into your nightmares...For instance, all I did was take out two of your locations...not too drastic. But...my physical pain vanished; I stopped clutching my chest ;-) and I'm breathing easier...LOL! Please don't touch that wire...and I still vote for the cheapest railpass you can get by with. Have a great time traveling with your friend!!! Keep a journal!!!