GS trip. internationnal flight conflict. need advice

Airlines rarely open all their seats to be self-assigned. My recommendation is for you to arrive as early as possible in the airport and be among the first on the check-in line. That way you can try to sort something out. The earlier you check-in the better: after passengers have been issued their boarding cards, it's more difficult to manage these change of seats, especially (as your rightly said) convincing some adult passenger to shift to a middle seat for an intercontinental 9h flight (I'm sure I'd not change places).

Aren't there other adults on this trip? If you can't get it sorted out at the airport, other adults could take the two seats next to strangers so all the girls will be together.

The problem was that the seat we needed that had someone else scheduled to sit in it was in the middle of our group of seats so we couldn't trade to make it work. we are in parts of 2 rows with seats on both sides of the aisle. Anyway, a very kind person from swiss air, Lizel, went to the trouble to track down and call the person in 35B and made arrangements for him to change seats. I hope he got a nice seat. She said he wasn't too excited about switching but the girl seating in 35A is likely to throw up(she's tidy, gets it in the cup or bag everytime) on the plane so he probably wouldn't enjoy that either. Thankful for Lizel's attention to our glitch. It may seem like a small issue but this is a big trip for these girls, lots of money, time, energy for them to take this trip and I want it to be a great experience for them. I'm trying to help the long flight be as smooth and easy as possible for everyone.

felicia, It may be possible to change seat assignments prior to the flight, but there are no guarantees so you'll have to allow for the fact that a few of the girls may be sitting with strangers. More people these days are using Seat Guru and other sites to choose their seating, and some people may not be willing to change their carefully researched choices. I've found that the flight crew can also sometimes initiate seating changes. On a flight a few years ago, I was asked to change seats to allow a family to stay together. I didn't want to be responsible for making their flight miserable so I agreed to the change, even though it meant my "new" seat was in the very last row against the bulkhead (I couldn't recline the seat at all). While you can try to arrange for your group to stay together, that may not be possible in all cases, so you'll have to be prepared for that. I doubt you'll have any problems, but if any of the girls do have a problem, either yourself or the flight crew will be able to deal with it very quickly. Hope you all have a great time!

Thanks Michael. the girls are very responsible. My concerns were not for the behavior of the girls. I'm on the hovering side, love them, and have been their leader since 1st grade. It is my desire to be as prepared as possible, plan for the worse, pray for the best, be structured, organized and flexible all at the same time. I was several hours of on hold with airlines but felt like if it was possible, it is best we sit together in our planned seating arrangement. We will also plan to arrive at the airports early, check in early and hopefully everyone including seating will now go smoothly. Had a similar issue on the return flight on luftansia where 2 of our party, not even next to each other were reassigned to sit else where. Called Luftansia last nite and their original seats were still open and moved them back to the original seats. It is strange business practice to me and I was not expecting it but I will check again closet to departure. I do have confirmation emails with seat assignments. does anyone know if those pieces of paper carry any wait when getting boarding passes?

I really don't think your seat assignments are guaranteed until you actually check in and print a boarding pass, which you can do with Swiss online 24 hours prior to your flight. If an assignment or assignments were somehow changed again, you can still change them yourself online, either before you check in or when you're checking in. The key that late in the game, however, is having seats that are still available. It's sort of a crap shoot, so you just sort of have to hope they don't change them again. Things are really shifting in this regard now with all of the fees for advance seating assignments that are guaranteed (for a fee), window/aisle seat guarantees (for a fee), or even advance boarding group guarantees with your advance seating assignment (for another fee). See a trend here? There are still airlines that do not charge for seat assignments and will not change them before your flight...Icelandair comes to mind (not saying they would never change them...they just haven't done it to me yet). Ken's point about folks maybe not wanting to change as much as in times past is a good one...if you've paid extra for a seat assignment, you're probably not going to be as receptive to making a change just to help someone out. Mint cookies for pre-boarding? Not on United Airlines...in yesterday's news...UAL will no longer offer pre-boarding for families with small children. What a crock!

I know it seems like a big deal not to sit together, but it's really going to be okay. It's an enclosed plane, no one is going to wander off and get lost on it. Tell them when the plane lands to disembark and meet up on the gangway/bus to the terminal. Also, the girls going are assumably cadettes/seniors or older, right? If they're mature enough to be going on a trip to Europe, they're mature enough to sit by themselves on the plane. If they can't handle sitting by themselves on a plane, they assumably are not mature enough find help if they get lost in Paris by themselves or elsewhere, etc. and should not go. I know you're responsible for them, I understand, I've been on quite a few girl scout trips around Europe with various ages. We've flown, taken a bus, taken a train, etc. nobody has gotten lost, assaulted, kidnapped or anything else. It'll be fine.

kathy, Thanks for your encouragment. It is a good reminder for me that regardless of our seat arrangements on the plane, we need to plan a place to meet when we got off the plane in case we get separated. We should especially plan for this getting off the trains which will be even more hectic and unfamiliar to them. I am probably more hovering then I need to be. These are all very responsible girls, good students, gold award girl scouts. I have talked with all the airlines we are flying and I believe I have all the seat issues resolved. Danke,
felicia

I think you wre right to be a bit concerned about the girls sitting next to strangers and I'm glad you got it resolved. I had a horrible experience on an airplane in college, flying alone, seated next to a man. won't go into details and I know such incidents are probably very uncommon, but still. good you don't have to worry.

Yeah, I once had a colleague who was seriously harassed by a guy one time when she was also a college student, so your concerns are by no means unfounded. Perverts fly, too, so I think your level of awareness is great. Glad you got it resolved. You'll like Swiss a lot...I flew with them a couple of years back from ORD to MAD, with a connection in ZRH. Excellent service, new or nearly new planes, in-seat entertainment (movies, games, music, TV shows), free Swiss chocolates, warm (moist) towels, and decent food. BTW, my seat assignments changed more than once on that trip...caught it the first time when reviewing my itinerary weeks before...changed it to something better but original seats were gone. They changed again after that...noticed when I was checking in online from home...changed them to something better, and this time, they stayed the same. This isn't an issue germane to Swiss...all airlines can and do make these changes without contacting you. When you pay an extra fee for seats that won't change, that's different. Girl Scout leaders are really great...we were at Burg Eltz once sort of waiting around for enough Americans to get a tour in English. A Girl Scout leader with a few kids took charge, was quite vocal, and very quickly rounded up enough English speakers for the tour (including us)...it was awesome. Enjoy your trip...what a great experience for those kids!

You are not going to like this but if you can trust these girls take them out of the country they should be trusted enough to sit on the plane without immediate supervisi This whole thread brings up the question whether you should take these girls to Europe. I have I have taken a group of Girl Scouts to Europe and I can assure you where they set on the plane was not an issue. I do not have to see them at all times to trust them all now otherwise I would not have taken them. I wish you luck but if they are old enough to go on this trip they need to be more responsible for themselves they appear to be letting them be.

"This whole thread brings up the question whether you should take these girls to Europe." No it doesn't, and I must have missed the part where anyone here even alluded to a trust issue. Felicia feels a sense of responsibility, and she should. And I'm guessing this sense of responsibility is pretty normal. Even if Felicia is more of a "helicopter" Girl Scout leader, I'm not sure what that has to do with the maturity level of the girls. Maybe Felicia needs to chill a little bit...who knows? I'm not sure you know Felicia well enough after simply reading a couple of her posts, so I think your comments are way off base.

I am clearly out of the loop on all the "fee" upgrade privileges. I was thinking offering the gate keeper a box of girl scout thin mints to preboard:) And of course getting our group out of the way and settled for the convenience of others.

wow, Carol, totally out of line. It's not that she doesn't trust the girls. It's the stranger in the next seat that she is skeptical about. Felicia is being very responsible and you shouldn't question like that. But it looks like she got it handled with Swiss airlines, thanks to Liesl. Still, it is best to print out boarding passes early and get to the airport early, in case there are any more changes. Felicia, you and the girls ane going to have a great time, and I hope you get some time to relax a bit. You have put a lot of time into this and I hope everyone appreciates how much work you have done.

Actually, I'm really thankful for all my RS friends who have taken so much time to help, look up train schedules, email me, talk me thru buying train tickets over the phone, make so many wonderful and helpful suggestions. Lola even mailed me a RS backpack for one of the girls to use. I think 90% of the trip came from posting questions and reading RS travel books. It is nice and refreshing to be a part of a group who seems to just be sincerely nice and helpful. I have spent a ton of time trip planning but many of you commented on how it will change these girls lives and be such an awesome opportunity for them, so, that was a big encouragement for me. It's why I've been the GS leader the last 12 years.

i am truly dumb founded by this thread,, my husband and I flew out then 14 yr old daughter to Germany two summers ago ,, by herself. We only requested she have an aisle seat because of a bathroom issue. She had no problems.
We are also flying her to Hawaii this summer, alone, and she is transferring planes in Seattle, alone at 16. I do think worrying about the group sitting all together is over kill worry. And it horrifies me that you think preboarding is needed for a group of what must be teens .. If you sit at a cafe what if a stranger sits next to one of the girls,, in some of those cafes you are literally side by side total strangers. On a plane any issue of a minor being harrassed by an adult would definately be handled by the cabin staff. A college girl needs to know how to handle it too,, I flew many places by that age, on my own, and I think you are over worrying.

The preboarding was just being funny about all the fees you can pay to upgrade, sit by the aisle or window, board early, etc. It was about being girl scouts and "paying" for upgrades with girl scout cookies. When people hear we are girl scouts, they always ask us if we have cookies. I'm responsible for other people's children so I am more cautious and since we are traveling as girl scouts, with girl scout insurance, we have more rules to follow. Some of them to protect the girls and some of them to protect the organization.

Felicia,, I am dying to know,, how old are these children,, and how many are you taking by yourself?

My suggestion is to have them all wait on plane until other passengers get off and then you all get off together. Also, if you are on a train, have girls hold hands, two together so not separated. They might not like it but it does work, I made my sister hold my hand every time we got off train, bus and even getting on one or I would have left her in some strange city and she and I are in our fifties!! Also suggest you have each girl keep with them a copy of the itinerary which includes name of hotels, etc in case they do get separated. Good luck and enjoy.

Wow,, Gail what a good big sister you are taking care of your little sister,, seriously.. this is now weirdest thread I have read this week. ( there is one weirder on fodars right now, so that one wins)

Pat, you may think the concern is weird but I do not. And I'm glad your daughter has flown here and there with no problems. I guess that 99% of the time it is fine. But you cannot expect cabin crew to take care of a problem if it does arise. Some girls ( like me at age 19) are just too embarrassed or ashamed to push that button and call for help. I was in the window seat so trapped. Nothing illegal like molesting happened but when I pushed his hand off my leg he pulled the blanket over his lap and I knew what he was doing with that hand. Was I supposed to call for help? You are naive if you think this stuff doesn't happen. While this is rare Felicia is right to be concerned about the girls sitting with strangers.

Sasha, sorry that happened to you, but, you were obvioulsy not taught by your parents how to handle such a situation. Seriously, a mistaken belief that we are protecting a young persons "innocence" causes more grief then good. We told my child exactly what do if harrassed, we are not naive at all Sasha,, and thankfully neither is my child.
Cabin crew would have DEFINATELY intervened. And your fear and embarrassment were the result of suprise and shock.. It was not your fault and you had nothing to be embarrassed about. I sincerely hope that felica has an open and honest discussion with these girls about how to handle situations, groping in subway or metros or crowds, suggestive comments by strangers etc.. the girls need KNOWLEDGE not to be cocooned in ignorance. If these girls are 13-14 then that will be a bit different then if they are 17-18( which are basically almost adults and in fact , at that age many girls in europe are travelling independently) . And sorry, if the girls are so protected that merely sitting a few rows away next to a stranger is a problem, then what is the motto of scouts really mean,, I think its something along the line of : Be Prepared

Gail, thanks for the ideas. We are preparing an index card with the names, addresses, and phone numbers of all the places we are staying for each person on the trip. It is good to caution the girls about getting separated in the train stations and getting on and off also. I appreciate hearing the experiences of other travelers and suggestions on ways to both prevent problems and deal with them if they arise so that we can be prepared as well as possible. There are so many aspects of putting this trip together that any helpful suggestions or even reminders of the obvious are appreciated.

felicia, One other point to make regarding "sitting with strangers". Even though it's possible that a few of the girls may have to be seated apart from your group, "strangers" are not necessarily going to misbehave, especially on a crowded flight. However, I have heard of a few cases similar to the one that Sasha described (hopefully those don't happen too often). Another point to keep in mind is the "stranger" could be another female. If it does turn out that you can't get all the seats changed, I'd probably check on the girls at regular intervals during the flight, but I doubt you'll have any problems. Cheers!

Thanks ken, as it stands now, all our flights have good seat assignments.

You invited suggestions on other practical matters. Here are a few from a (very old) Boy Scout who began international travel for a jamboree at 17, many decades ago, and never stopped. Is there a badge for travel preparation? You could take that approach to your program. The girls can fire up their computers to research small projects. One issue is how to use the Metro system alone and there is plenty of advice on this site and many others. It's an intricate system but works fine once you have the basics down. Start at www.parisbytrain.com, run by a young Canadian IT pro. Another subject is basic French etiquette. A few simple polite gestures go a long way in that more formal country. They could also discuss basic safety rules, particularly the danger of backpack-swiping. Teens can be pretty casual about their belongings but Internet research will unearth tips. In particular, no wallets in backpacks, no putting the bag on the ground without holding on, and pack them light. The adults should retain a photocopy of each girl's passport (they should have their own photocopy too, never kept in the same place as the passport but carried when on the streets.) Passports belong in your lodgings' safe. Work out rules for money: Where to exchange, how much. Again there is plenty on travel forums to help them decide. And, in the cellphone era, what about calling home? For this kind of experience, less is more, so they learn to be self-sufficient. Talk about this ahead of time so it won't be an issure, with them or the parents.
Be prepared, and bon voyage.

Indeed, many of us have young family members who have traveled around the world by themselves and are quite adept at it, having grown up traveling their entire lives. Being the only responsible adult for a group of kids traveling together who haven't traveled before is completely different. And Pat's right about one thing...this thread is flippin' weird now, primarily because of comments that are way out of line. How could you possibly say things like, "You weren't taught well by your parents..." (paraphrasing) when you don't even know these people? Why is that even necessary? Unbelievable!

"to handle such a situtation" is pretty specific, so obviously does not refer to anyones parents general parenting abilities. Paraphrasing is interperting incorrectly and can add something that was not meant.

My parents taught me how to handle advances and inappropriate touching and I did that. They also told me what to do in instances of flashing if that ever happened- look away and do not react and leave quickly. But here I was trapped in the window seat so could not leave. I did look away and ignore him. I suppose I could have rung for help and asked to move ( not sure that was an option it was a small plane) but frankly I was just sort of petrified. That was not from poor teaching by my parents but just my immaturity maybe. Anyway I hope all thia talk doesn't alarm Felicia. She has done a great job preparing for this trip and got lots of good support here. I am sure she can forgive the harsh comments as they are misplaced.

Felicia, you're doing everything right...you've obviously fixed the seating problem and you're on to the next thing. This thread has some great tips and some really rude posts...just ignore the latter. I was once a youth leader and took two trips with the group (including several chaperones) to some non-touristy parts of Latin America to do social service projects. I had experience with both areas, so my naïveté in traveling not an issue, but you're right: you've got other people's kids that you're entrusted with. In both situations, I had some fun pre-trip meetings where we acted out the experience of having cleared customs with your passport in your hand, hords of people about, and the group split up. I taught them to stop, calmly put everything away, and wait for the rest of the group. Like others have suggested, have meet up places. Have sensible policies about what they should always do if they get split up on the subway (go to the next stop and wait or whatever) or at a site you're visiting. Give them some freedom within parameters so that they have the enjoyment of self-discovery. Finally, the absolute best parts of both trips were the talks they had with the locals (talking in their broken Spanish). Try to encourage that they have that RS experience of seeing Europe not just as American tourists but as those who are going to learn about other cultures. Have fun!