German Railpass

A pass for Germany is not a bad deal. We found it a good deal (though we had a Benelux/Germany pass) because we were doing bigger hops, crossing regional borders, and like you, we could not commit to pre-purchase. The only thing you may want to watch is a few trains that require reservations or upcharges, but in Germany, those are rare.

As for travel, yes, those days you travel, just fill in the current date and get on a train. For many trains, reservations are available, and on some busy trains, a seat may be hard to come by, but I always got to where I was going, and only once, for a short stretch had to sit in the aisle.

Thanks to you both for your help. Yes, we are flexible. depending on the "loads" on the flights out of the US, we hope to fly out on May 21st, take the train from Frankfurt to Frieburg, stay there for a few days, then on to Rothenburg and then to Munich. I am not into "whirlwind" sightseeing, I prefer to stop and plant myself in a town. If things go haywire, we can reverse the order and spend more or less time on either end. I once rented a car in southern France and my best memories are of the tiny towns that we found which weren't in the guidebooks and sometimes, weren't even on the map! Since our trip this time is only about 10 days, we decided to rely solely on the trains...I hope that is a good decision. I love to drive but I hate the hassle of finding parking everywhere we go.

Do you really need a rail pass (you really didn't say where you are going to use it). If you are staying in Freiburg, I believe they charge a "KURTAX" with your room and a KONUS card is one of the benefits you get with that.

As for transportation in Baden-Württemberg, when you are not using the KONUS card, you can use a Baden-Württemberg-Ticket, an all day pass for 2-5 people on regional trains in the state (Land) for €28. Once you get to Bavaria, the Bayern ticket is a similar all day pass, also for €28. If you do your Baden-Württemberg to Bavaria travel on the weekend, a Schönes-Wochenende-Ticket will cover all day, regional train travel anywhere in Germany for €37. Otherwise you will need both a Ba-Wü-Ticket and a Bayern-Ticket, or maybe point to point tickets.

Hi Lee, it seems our itinerary changes daily. I have been reading R.S.'s Germany 2010 book daily and also many of the posts on the graffiti wall. My basic plan is to fly into FRA and go to Freiburg. The only reservation I have definitely made so far is in Freiburg because my son is there( which is actually the main point of my trip) We plan to stay there for 4 or 5 nights and visit nearby towns while we are there. Then we will leave Freiburg and go either to Munich or back up to FRA with a stop somewhere in between. My first plan was to visit Rothenburg but now I am not sure. I really can't handle really touristy places and from what I have read lately, Rothenburg is VERY touristy. We are going to be flexible, depending on the loads on the flights, since we are flying space-available on airline passes...meaning, we could change directions completely in the middle of the trip and head towards FRA or MUC. So, as far as the rail pass goes, I thought we would need it from FRA to Freiburg, then to another stopover for a night or 2 and then on to MUC with a couple of days there. As I said, it could all reverse and we would end up back in FRA with a couple of days there. Nothing like living on the edge, Huh?! I usually rent cars when I travel but this time, wanted to use the rail system exclusively.

"Touristy" It's an unfortunate fact that the most interesting places become well published so everyone wants to go there. If that's the definition of touristy, then by avoiding touristy places, you mean you are going places that no one wants to see.

In the vein of visiting less visited places, go to Nördlingen instead of Rothenburg. Oh, Nördlingen lacks a Christmas shop and a Crime and Punishment Museum, but in other ways it's as interesting as Rothenburg, and a lot less crowded with tourists. It has a lot of Fachwerk buildings and a church tower you can climb. It has an almost entirely intact wall with a Wehrgang you can walk on.

OTOH, I stayed in Rothenburg for two nights and avoided the real touristy stuff. I only peaked into the Christmas Shop. I didn't do the Nightwatchman's tour or visit the C&P Museum. We did walk down to the river, cross the bridge, and spend some time just looking at the town from the other side. We walked almost the entire wall.

I guess my definition of "touristy" might be something that has no relation to the site you are seeing, that is just put there to extract extra money from tourists.

Excellent points, Lee! I think we may just have to do it to say we did it though Nordlingen sounds great, I will look it up! Again, I appreciate all of your insight...I wish I could take you along as our guide!

Considering the uncertainty of your arrival day (not to mention time), I wouldn't recommend your trying to use on of the train-specific, non-refundable, discounted tickets to get to Freiburg. But rather than paying full fare (~€62), I would recommend these options.

Express trains make the trip from FRA to Freiburg in about 2 hours. You can do the trip entirely by regional train in about 5 hours, with 3 or 4 changes of trains, but it will only cost you about €15 pP from FRA to Mannheim, from which you can use one of the €28 Baden-Württemberg tickets the rest of the way, changing in Karlsruhe and, maybe Offenburg.

The other way to go, the one I would prefer, is to thoroughly explore the Black Forest on your way to Freiburg, overnighting in a few towns along the way. The Black Forest starts just SE of Mannheim. You could visit Calw, home of Hermann Hesse, and stop in Freudenstadt. From Freudenstadt, go to Strasbourg via Alpirsbach and Offenburg, then come back across to Hausach and down the Schwarzwaldbahn via Triberg (maybe too touristy for you) to Donaueschingen, then from Donaueschingen to Freiburg via Titisee. Most of this area is pretty non-touristy.

Use your excess time first, getting to Freiburg. As long as you stay in Black Forest towns, you will probably get a Konus card each day which will give you free travel to you next night's town. If you can set a date to return to Frankfurt, you can advance-purchase a Sparpreis fare (from €29 pP) from Freiburg to Frankfurt on one of those 2 hr ICEs. However, that trip down the Rhein, from Freiburg to Frankfurt is a popular route, particularly for people coming from Switzerland, so get your tickets as soon as possible.

Nördlingens website is at www.noerdlingen.de.

Nördlingen sits inside an ancient meteor impact crater, das Ries, the walls of which were used for training by our Apollo astronauts. There is a museum about it in Nördlingen. Unfortunately I was there on a Monday, the day of the week that it is not open.

Nördlingen is in Bavaria, but the Baden-Württemberg-Ticket is valid from anywhere in Baden-Württemberg to Nördlingen via Aalen and Pflaumloch.

For accommodations in Nördlingen, I would recommend Gasthof zum Engel. It's next to one of the city gates and close to the train station. As I remember, the owner, Uli Wenger, speaks pretty good English, so you can probably send them an email in English. I can't get their Prospekt to load, but in 2007 I paid €35 per night for a single room w/ WC and breakfast.

Thanks, Lee! This is all so helpful..I really appreciate it!

If you spend a few days in Nördlingen, you can also visit Dinkelsbühl and Harburg nearby.

I wasn't that impressed with Dinkelsbühl. I left an hour ealier than planned, but some people like it. It's about 50 minutes by bus from in front of the Bahnhof in Nördlingen.

Harburg castle is a very old castle. I don't think it was ever destroyed and rebuilt. Harburg is about 20 minutes south of Nördlingen on the train toward Donauwörth. There is no public transportation in Harburg and the train station is about 1 km south of the town center. The walk isn't unpleasant. The castle is about ½ km up a steep hill from town.

These towns, by the way, are all part of the Romantic Road.

Another place you might consider is Sigmaringen, with it's Hohenzollern Castle. The castle sits on a bluff overlooking the Danube and is very impressive. The town of Sigmaringen is in Baden-Württemburg, on the rail line between Donaueschingen and Ulm.

I don't think you'd want to spend hundreds of $ on a German railpass for the limited amount of travel you're doing. And it sounds like the advance-sale discount tickets are out if you want to be impromptu.

Lee has given you some interesting Black Forest towns to explore. On his "preferred" route near Offenburg is a town called Gengenbach, a lovely old walled town with towers and cobblestones. This would be a good first stop on your way from FRA to Freiburg (should you take his advice and spend some time on the way.) Gengenbach is also a KONUS town - so you could overnight there and take a FREE train tour to Hausach, Freudenstadt, etc. (stop in Schiltach too - gorgeous.)

Consider unbooking Freiburg, which is NOT a KONUS town - The only towns that offer the KONUS cards are on this list:

Konus Towns

You might want to stay a night or two in Freiburg, but remember that Freiburg, though a pleasant mid-sized city, is NOT some adorable village and NOT in the forest. To stay close to F'burg, try Kirchzarten (only 14 min. by train from Freiburg) where you're closer to the BF towns that most visitors want to see (Titisee, Hinterzarten.) K'zarten is a KONUS town, so daytrips to Freiburg or the BF towns would again be FREE. Maybe a place like this near the station would work for you; prices are 65-80 double with breakfast buffet including home-made cold cuts :)

www.foehrenbacher.de/pbeschr.htm

Here's a map of the travel-free area covered by the KONUS card:

Konus Map

Rothenburg is touristy but it really is worth seeing. You can travel on a Laender Ticket from Freiburg all the way to Würzburg, which is a stone's throw from Rothenburg.

Here's an inn in the heart of Gengenbach to check into:

http://www.gasthof-hirsch.com/

"...Würzburg, which is a stone's throw from Rothenburg".

However, the fare from Würzburg to Rothenburg is €11,50 pP one way (€51, including €28 for the Ba-Wü ticket). If you are sure of the day you are going to travel, you can get an advance purchase SparPreis ticket for €49 for two of you and use express trains and do the trip in less than 5 hours instead of 6-7 hours by regional trains. Of course, on a non-workday, you could use a Schönes-Wochenende-Ticket for €37 all the way to Rothenburg, but still 6-7 hours.

Incidently, Weikersheim, one of the towns on the Romantic Road, is inside Baden-Württemberg. In 2007, I took a bus from Rothenberg to Weikersheim for €4,70 (one person). Some of the buses on this route always run a scheduled route. Some, however, are Rufbüsse (RFB). They run a scheduled route, but only on demand. You have to call a number and request the trip.

Lee, in the interest of saving space on the Wall, I have sent an email to you for your opinion on our itinerary. Thanks!