France-Italy Pass, Select Pass or pt. to pt.?

Ben only way to decide is to price the point to piont tickets out for your dates.. if you are looing far enough out point to point tickets can be very reasonable. I bought first class tickets for Paris to Nice on the iDTGV site for 40 euros in 2012..We met two folks sitting across from us .. they bought their tickets for that train only 2 weeks ahead and spent 200 euros!! So advance buying can make a huge difference.

I will add this.. we stayed in Nice for 4 days.. and did a daytrip to Monaco and Eze sur Mer. Total cost was 3 euros each by bus..
The public bus to Monaco was only one euro each. We spent 4-5 hours in Monaco.. then took bus back and got off at Eze Sur Mer for some beach time and late lunch.
You can take the train also.. cost is about 3 euros each way but will stop in Eze ( hilltop) and several other places..

I would not consider a daytrip to Normandy from Paris.. you could do it but its a LONG day.. and you will arrive after most of the D Day tours have left.. so better to either skip it or do an overnight.

Thanks for the Monaco and Normandy advice, Pat.

I have been doing a lot of reading on this forum since I created that post. It looks like the consensus is that a pass is really not worth it. It looks like I just need to spend the time on the train sites to purchase tickets directly.

Using the big Rail Time & Cost map at http://www.ricksteves.com/travel-tips/transportation/trains/cost-maps, we can quickly estimate that buying 2nd class tickets at regular price will cost about $370 per person, which is less than the cost of either pass options you're considering. With a pass, it's important to book ahead for Nice-Paris, since the French trains really limit the number of reservations for railpass travelers. Munich-Venice and Venice-Florence (en route to Vernazza) reservations can be made closer to the travel date, but are still necessary.

You can get advance discounts by reserving some of these tickets now using the tips and links from http://www.ricksteves.com/travel-tips/transportation/trains/buying-tickets, which is what I recommend. Don't bother booking ahead for Vernazza-Nice, since it's often served by regional trains that are harder to book ahead. Paris-Normandy tickets are also easy to buy on the spot for about $50 each way.

Contrary to what Laura advises.. I would buy my tickets for Paris to Normandy( that would likely be Bayeux) well ahead of time .. as I would prefer to pay 15-20 euros .. to 40 euros which is the last minute price.. may not seem like a big deal to some.. but when buying for a family it all adds up.

Go on sncf website.. play with dates.. if you enter next week prices one way are 39.90 euros.. now enter two months later and prices range from 15-25 euros. I know what I would rather pay.

I'm sorry, but Rick's "helpful" map is really not accurate and should be reviewed. For example, Vienna to Salzburg tickets can be bought on the day of travel on Westbahn for 25 Euro. If bought in advance with oebb.at, tickets can be 19 Euro. Overall, this maps offers the walk up price for tickets at the train station - something which savvy travelers rarely do these days. I think that the prices are skewed high so that people will be lured into a rail pass - an option which makes even less sense in today's Europe than walk up tickets.

People do have different budgets and flexibility in their plans. I'd certainly trade flexibility for savings when the regular ticket price is $150 and trains can fill up, but might not when the regular price is only $50 and trains don't require reservations. If you're sure that you will the time for a side trip to Normandy, and perhaps will reserve with a local tour guide there, then you can get an advance discount on those tickets, too.

Having talked to rail travelers every day for the past 16 years, I know that many travelers do want to be flexible and to know the walk-up train ticket prices. These are a fair basis for comparing rail passes for multiple travel days. We do not recommend locking in nonrefundable, advance-purchase discount tickets for many different days of travel if a rail pass can offer more flexibility in a similar price range. Flexibility of course depends on the country of travel. You can forget about flexibility on TGVs in France but can count on it very nicely in many other countries.

How up to date is that rail map?

It has been years since the Eurostar took as long as 3 hours to reach Paris from London. 2:16 now, a lot closer to 2 hours.

Having bought train tickets for myself for over thirty years, I must agree with Nigel, Emily and pat. If people are asking questions about cost and savings, it would be better advice to offer how to save the most money. If the advice given does not consider super-economy or economy options, say so.

Key phrase in the OP is "worth it" - which implies monetary savings as well as convenience.

A few comments:

1. I think flexibility is overrated. People fly on a specific plane all the time and don't complain about the lack of flexibility. What is the big deal about committing to a specific train? Paying 2-3X or more for flexibility when people are trying to save money doesn't make sense.

2. I believe that this site purposefully steers people into purchasing a rail pass by inflating the fares and overcomplicating train ticket purchasing. Of course a rail pass is "easier," but it is wholly unnecessary. I say "easier" because people seem to have just as much confusion about a rail pass as they do with buying point to points in advance.

3. I have never seen any scenario where advance purchase point to point tickets end up costing more than a rail pass. Ever.

4. If the rail map continues to be referred to on this site, it must be updated.

I agree 100% with Emily's post. Rick continues to beat the drum of rail passes, but his advice is outdated for most travelers. Particularly in France, where advance reservations are necessary to get to use the pass on many trains (thus defeating the one potential advantage of a pass - spontaneity).

BenO, I do what Pat recommends. For each of your routes, look at tickets for tomorrow and for your intended travel dates. Then compare these with the cost of a pass (remembering to factor in the extra costs for mandatory reservations not included on the pass). Only then can you see what each option costs, and then, taking into account the combination of flexibility and costs, plan accordingly. If you can live with the last minute ticket prices, wait until you get there. If you like the savings of advance purchase and can live with the restrictions, buy point-to-point tickets in advance. And if a pass works out better for you than the point-to-point tickets you would actually buy (not the hypothetical ones someone else may want or need), then get the pass.

BenO,

I travel with a Pass but would not advise that for you based on your itinerary and the number of travel days. If you had close to six weeks and a different itinerary, then I would suggest a Pass... depending. With your itinerary and trip time, I would not get a Pass either, but be advised that with those discount tickets you do lock yourself in timewise, date and departure specific, ie, sacrificing flexibility. Look into that option, then decide whether it's worth it or not.

Dear all: Please note that staff won't normally revisit topics on this forum once they have been answered.

For Ben's trip, my reply above favored point-to-point tickets, not rail passes.

If you read our advice about rail passes, you will see that it includes most points that people have made here. Advance-discount tickets are described wherever we have found them to be easy to buy, and that especially includes the France rail page. However, you might be surprised how many people start researching their train travel one month or even one week in advance of departing home, when they have fewer options (perhaps no advance discounts and no passholder reservations on a TGV in France).

In answer to some other questions, the Time & Cost map was pretty exhaustively updated in January, 2013, using an exchange rate of 1 euro = $1.25, and rounded to the nearest $5. Given today's exchange rate of $1.38 (contrary to predictions that the big banks made earlier this year), that may result in an under-estimate. A few updates were made this year to cover recent France-Spain TGV changes. Travel times are rounded to the hour, and often up instead of down. (For instance, most London-Paris Eurostar departures take 2hr.20 - 2hr.30, and that is rounded up to 3 hours.) No one page can accommodate all the permutations of price or travel time on a route, nor predict the affect of exchange rates on your actual date of purchase. However, this map provides an excellent overview of train travel times and costs on the faster trains, and can save readers hours of looking up multiple fares through individual countries' web sites.

In most cases, we recommend choosing rail passes only if they save money. But in countries without many reservation requirements, rail passes can still add a valuable level of convenience, allowing you to hop on any train. Any of these comparisons are predicated on being pretty sure of your route, if not necessarily your dates and times.

I just want to thank everyone for the advice. This forum is really amazing and the different points of view are actually helpful. I spent the time checking all of the point to point train routes and costs and compared it to a Select Pass and a France-Italy pass. The savings by buying point to point tickets was about $100 before I even looked at the cost of purchasing reservations that were required with the passes. I also compared the cost of buying tickets on the country specific websites compared to RailEurope. The ticket price on the country train website was always cheaper (4 2nd class tickets from Nice to Paris were $385 on the SNCF website and $588 on RailEurope, even going through the Rick Steves site). The advice to use a different country (I used France) and then print the tickets worked perfectly.

One frustrating glitch for me occurred when trying to buy the iDTVG tickets. Despite calling my credit card company to let them know I was going to buy the tickets, the initial charge was rejected. I got an automated call form B of A regarding an attempted charge and I called them again to let them know it was me making the charge and it was OK. When I went back to try again, the price had increased by $35 (on both the SNCF and the capitaine sites). Apparently, when the train purchase website knows you want the tickets it can make the price go up. Again, i got a call from the credit card company (BofA) to let me know a charge had been made. This time when I told them it was fine, I also made it clear how dissatisfied i was at their utter incompetence. I did what I was supposed to do regarding notifying them of the purchase, and they screwed it up.