fast trains

Millions of people in Europe use fast trains every day without Eurail. But a lot depends on where you are going, what country, what kind of rail pass, how many rail segments, uzw. There is no set answer, but today, rail passes are often not the most economical option.

You can get such good prices on the "fast" trains in Spain(AVE) and Italy(ES) with advance purchase that it is cheaper than using a pass. Indeed on Trenitalia you can get mini fares that are less than the reservation fee you would pay to use a pass.

The Eurail pass can be most useful if you ride the cheapest and slowest trains in each country. That's where you get the free rides. In most countries, your railpass will not get the seat reservations on the fast trains. You must pay a supplemental fee to get them. You can usually pay for these supplemental fees in the rail station at the electronic kiosks. Next, some train companies limit the seats for railpass holders. If they are sold out, you need to wait for a later train. Finally, two new high-speed trains are beginning service in Italy and France/Italy. These are the Italo and Thello trains. These are reportedly the fastest in Europe. Neither accepts the railpass at this time. With the circumstances listed above, the Eurail pass does permit more flexibilty of traveling without a lot of detail train planning and learning how to use the train websites. It also permits you to when you want. It will be the most expensive way to travel.

The Eurail pass can be most useful if you ride the cheapest and slowest trains in each country. Not in Germany, Switzerland or Austria where domestic travel does not require reservations no matter how fast the train (except ICE-Sprinter).

Chere, Depending on where you're travelling, it's important to note that Railpasses DO NOT include the reservation fees that are compulsory on some "fast trains". This is true both with the TGV (France) and the EuroStar Italia (Italy). Especially in Italy, you DON'T want to be caught without a valid reservation, as you'll likley be fined on the spot and it won't be cheap (often €40-50 PP)! You'll have to do some "number crunching" and compare the costs of the P-P trips you're considering vs. the cost of a Railpass plus reservation fees. As Lee mentioned, Railpasses aren't the bargain they once were. The days of "Europe on $5 a day" are long gone!!! You may find it helpful to download the free PDF Rail Guide from this website. Click the "Railpasses" tab at the top and then look in the lower right corner for the link. Happy travels!

As others have said, in most cases, specific booking point to point tickets will be cheaper than a Eurail pass. There are some exceptions however. -If the majority of your trip will take place in Germany, Austria, and Switzerland and -The majority of your Eurail pass travel days are on fast trains for long distances and -You desire flexibility and not being locked into a specific train in those cases you are most likely to find that Eurail passes might offer savings, or are only slightly more expensive than P2P and it's worth it for the flexibility. The best way to figure this out is figure out many days of travel you need (so many people just go for the global pass for a month, even though they only need 9 days of travel - why?) and then divide the days by the total cost for your "daily" Eurail amount. They price out the tickets online using the websites of the national train networks for your dates. If the overall cost for the Eurail pass is less than $50 bucks or so compared to P2P tickets, a Eurail pass might make sense for the convenience and flexibility it offers. Otherwise, just do P2P.

But the student pass seems to make the point to point prices RS posted seem very high. I am sorry but I really am new to this and am frustrated bec a decision re travel must be made soon. Thanks for everyones input. Chere

sooo what are the best sites to check for prices? Also my daughter will already be in Europe in 2 weeks so there won't be much advance purchases to get the best rate.

Chere, The best websites are the sites of the rail companies themselves (Trenitalia, SCNF, ItaloNPV, OBB, SBB, Renfe, Thalys, Eurostar, NS, NMBS, DB, CFP etc.)

Don't forget the German Rail (Bahn) website. "the point to point prices RS posted seem very high." I don't find that price map to be very useful. It only shows the fastest, most expensive trains. I've never spent anywhere near that much in Germany.

In what country will she travel? The advance fares are really good in Italy, as low as 9 euro on the fast trains, but you are right those fares are probably gone if she is traveling in two weeks. Just remember she will still need to make and pay for reservations with a pass.

Ok. Whole other direction: Rynair, etc are they as great a deal as they seem?

A lot of people here don't like the budget airlines, but if you READ ALL THE FINE PRINT they can be a great cost effective way to get around, often cheaper than taking the train. That said, getting to and from airports is more of a hassle than from train stations, usually. So I generally only consider a flight if the train ride would be 5-6 hours or longer. But yes, the deals are good, just read about luggage restrictions and know they are often enforced! Ryanair seems to be a budget airline that people hate the most. I haven't used it, but I have had great experiences on Germanwings.

If using RyanAir make sure to use the toilet before you get on. The somewhat "colourful" head of that "airline" makes wierd press conferences. Not that they have been implimented yet, as far as I know, but he has said that all uses of the onboard toilet will be charged, that seats will be removed and everyone will stand up, and that they will no longer accept checked luggage. Now for what currently happens:
as said, read every word of the fine print. Be aware of all the charges and fees, they will nickel and dime you to death. And they do use some fairly remote airports. At many you will spend as long on the bus into the "nearby" city as you will on the plane.

Not all low-cost airlines and airports are created equal. Easyjet, for instance, flies to "mainstream" airports like Schiphol, Charles de Gaulle, Malpensa and El Prat. What I realized is that some people don't handle well the need to go through the fine print, get stressed out and panic. Moreover, not all air route has competing train alternatives of the same speed. Venezia-München is a relatively short flight route, but any ground-based alternative between them is between the gruesomely slow or outright crap.