Europe Train Travel HELP!?!

Sean, The first thought that comes to mind is that your Itinerary is not the most efficient, as it involves some "backtracking". Is there any possibility that you could start your trip in Amsterdam, then to Paris and proceed from there to Cologne, Prague, Budapest and Munich? My suggestion would be to use night trains only when necessary. You'll need to choose the trains carefully to ensure that you don't use a train that has several changes during the night. If you have to change trains at 03:00 and again at 05:00, you won't get much sleep! Keeping your travel routes shorter will allow you to travel in the day, which is what I normally prefer. I'm not sure whether a Germany Rail Pass will be the best option, since it won't cover those segments of your trip in France, Benelux, Czech Republic or Hungary. You'll have to do some "number crunching" to determine whether P-P tickets or a Railpass would be more cost effective. You might try entering your Itinerary into This Website to see what it suggests. It should provide a rough estimate of the best Railpass and P-P tickets to use. Good luck!

Why all the night trains? It doesn't make much sense to spend all the extra money on a night / sleeper train, when you could travel those distances in a fairly short time and sleep in a hotel. I also think it makes more sense to go to Amsterdam from Paris and then go to Cologne, then head off to Prague, etc.

Jo and Ken, Thank you for your suggestions. The trip is structured the way it is to best accommodate the whole group. Some people are leaving Amsterdam to go to London, some home, some are only meeting us in Amsterdam, and my wife and I are heading east. A night train from Amsterdam to Prague seemed the best way to get east of Germany without wasting a day. The Paris-Cologne-Amsterdam part of the trip is already set. My wife and I have some flexibility on what to do next. The only booked part is our flight home from Munich on the 27th.
Additional help is very welcome.

Hey Sean, I've been on the CNL train round trip in a 4 person couchette with family, and while it was "an experience", it wasn't really restful. For you and your wife, any measure of privacy will cost you 238 euros for both in an Economy Double cabin- plus 15 hours of time. You could share a sleeping cabin with 2 or 4 other persons- but it is very cramped when the beds are made. The bottom bunk occupant cannot sit up when all 6 beds are down. There is no where to sit except on someone else bed!
If you should get up in the middle of the night to pad down the hall, you'll have to step on someone else's bed ( or they will have to brush by yours) to get back into bed. I'd only do that with family.... .. speaking of which, I would also NOT return to AMS just to see people off. It is going to cost you more in vacation time and money, so unless you are just dying to see a small bit of Amsterdam I'd pass it up this time. You can easily fly to AMs from EWR on another trip. Also, there are posts on this site about the bus from Prague to Budapest being less expensive than the train. We drove a route thru the Tatras which was absolutley gorgeous; would be a shame to miss the mountains because you are trying to sleep! You dont have much time for all these wonderful cities-I'd spend at least 3 days each in Prague, Budapest, Amsterdam and Munich. 5 or 6 days in Amsterdam or Munich is just about right and I;ve been to those 4 or 5 times already- delightful places. Perhaps you can cut out one destination- you are spending a lot of time in train stations and on trains.

Sean, Thanks for the additional information. Rather than endure a long rail trip in a night train, which might involve multiple changes during the night, you might consider budget air from Amsterdam to Prague. It will also be cheaper! My preference would be EasyJet as I've travelled with them before and found the service good. They have a flight departure 21 July at 19:05, arriving PRG at 20:40 (time 1H:35M). Current fare (which I believe includes all taxes and fees) is currently listed at €43.99 PP. However as the budgets often use a "sliding scale" this will likely increase as flight time gets closer. One caveat though. When using budget airlines in Europe, be sure you PACK LIGHT, as those with overweight luggage WILL PAY! Read their "Terms & Conditions" carefully! Tickets are usually non-refundable and non-changeable once booked, and usually only ONE carry-on item is allowed. For the trip from Prague to Budapest, I'd travel during the day so that you can enjoy the scenery. There are direct trains with a travel time of 6H:56M, which is reasonable (at least IMHO). A departure at 09:39 would get you to Budapest at 16:35 (just about perfect for a brief "walkabout" and a nice hot meal!). For the trip from Budapest to Munich, there's a direct RailJet train departing at 07:10, arriving 14:30 (time 7H:20M, current Saver Fares listed at €49 PP). Note that times and prices I've listed are of course subject to change. On your trip from Munich to the airport, I'd use the S-Bahn as it's quick and not subject to "traffic issues". Cheers!

Munich (from hotel near the train station) taxi to airport) = 60 euros. In case you need to get to airport before the S-bahn is running in the morning.... we left our hotel at 0415.

"July 13th: 5 people - Train from Paris to Cologne" Look into advance sale tix. I just pulled up a price of 145 Euros total for 5 people on June 18. I didn't check July 13 because that date isn't for sale yet; you can only buy 92 days in advance. But on Day T-92 and counting, you should be able to nail down a similar deal for this 8:01 direct train from Paris Nord. http://reiseauskunft.bahn.de/bin/query.exe/en "July 13th - 17th: Cologne (Travel by train or ferry up and down Rhine" The most visited part of the Rhine - the area between Bingen and Koblenz - is to the south. For trips between Bonn and Bingen, 5 people can share a Rheinland-Pfalz Ticket, a daypass that will cost 21 Euros for 1 + 3 Euros each thereafter. You can ride all the regional (RE, RB, VIA, MRB) trains all day (after 9 am weekdays), hopping on and off at will. Of course, first you must have tickets to Bonn. 5 people can get a similar 5-person daypass - a "VRS" daypass sold by the local travel authority - for 21.80 total, which lets you use the same trains in the same way. Both daypasses can be used at any hour on weekends and can be bought from ticket machines in Cologne. You'll need separate tickets for any boat rides: www.k-d.com

Using the night trains in the believe that you can save the precious daylight for touring is not going to be what you expect. Many, many people find that they cannot sleep or rest well on the night train. Besides, it isn't all in the night. The CNL night train from Amsterdam to Prague takes 14.5hrs. You can fly on a budget airline in 2 hrs or for less money. I would suggest that you have two too many night trains.

Sean, Since you have to accomodate others on the trip, and want to take the night trains using the German portion of the German Rail Pass, I am not too sure you're saving much. But you feel you can "push it" once you two are away from your friends...good, I would too at your age and did. Given the schedule laid out as it now stands, I would do this: don't use the Pass from Budapest-Munich, not worth it, you'll lose. Take the departure at 21:05 from BP getting into Munich Hbf at 06:15. Your choice here to reserve a couchette...I wouldn't. For the Amsterdam-Prague take the CNL leaving at19:01 arriving 09:28, use the Pass, buy separate tickets to cover from Amsterdam to the German border, same for the Czech portion of the ride. If you want to save here, sleep upright in the general seating in the Sitzwagen. Reserving a couchette or sleeper (Liegewagen or Schlafwagen) will definitely cut in on your savings by using the Pass. Your best bet for saving on the Pass is this leg. For Prague to Budapest, buy a point to point ticket, your Pass isn't valid; since it's a EC train, it's a spruced up, refurbished 1970s train, even though it's not mandatory, you can reserve to better your chances of sitting together in the same compartment. This Prague-BP route: take a day train instead, in 7 hrs you'll be there. I would suggest the 0939 departure from Prague. Unless you don't mind arriving in the dark in BP at 22:35, take the 15:39 departure, that way you can return to the station half hour prior to departure to retrieve the luggage. This leg is the easiest since with your ticket you can hop on with no reservation.

I agree with the posters above - while it may seem like you're saving money by using all the night trains, I think it is more than likely a bad decision. I would not rely on so many night trains before trying one out. We took a single night train, from Munich to Amsterdam, and it was easily the worst night of "sleep" we got on our entire trip. We didn't think it was going to be a big deal, since we're both in our 20s and were staying in hostel dorm rooms with noisy neighbours, but that really wasn't the case. We barely slept the entire route due to the noise, rocking, train stopping/starting, and our compartment-mates getting up at all hours of the night. The first half of our day in Amsterdam was pretty much wasted because we were so groggy and tired. I would highly recommend trying out a night train before taking them through most of your trip.

I have been to Europe five times and done night trains in Europe, Turkey and India. Here is my advice: Don't take night train unless you absolutely have to. Dude, they suck. I have never, I repeat never had a decent nights sleep on a night train. Even if you pay extra for 1st class super deluxe privacy for you and your wife, it is still a train! You are trying to see way to much in too short a time. Two night stops are horrible, You barely land in a town and boom, you have to pack up and leave again. I would strongly suggest deleting some from your plans. Have at least three night stays and delete two cities, or get rid of the fourth night in Amsterdam for more time somewhere else. This advice is based on my own experience traveling on my own and with tour groups all over the world. No sleep = waste of travel money because you are tired and grumpy. This last trip I did three and four night stays on each stop, no night trains. Heaven!

My thanks for all the intelligent advice. My wife and I will take the short flight from Amsterdam to Prague on the 21st. If anyone has any other suggestions from experience with budget airlines, I would be grateful. I will check the luggage restrictions Ken, thank you. We can then stay in Prague the 21st, 22nd and 23rd giving us some quality time and the weekend. Final decision on our next move continues to elude us. We fly home from Munich on Wednesday afternoon, the 27th. Also thinking about staying in Munich the night of Tuesday, the 26th. Since I've already received so much useful information here, let me share further in hopes of continued bounty. Where to rest our heads on Sunday and Monday is my question? My wife and I will be on our honeymoon and Prague begins the intimate part of our trip. My wife has heard wonderful things about Budapest. Someone suggested taking the day train from Prague because of the beauty of surrounding countryside, but it is a 7 hr trip. And then a 7 hr trip back to Munich. I thought maybe Vienna or Salzburg. We love new experiences, the beauty of nature, good food. I am a history lover. My wife loves the arts. We love and learn from each other. Majestic architecture, friendly people, good stories, live music. We're not big drinkers, but enjoy a nice glass of beer or wine. My wife enjoys a nice spa. When some coin is required to sample life's variety, we spend it, but we are on a budget. We try to be smart about our spending so that we have some money to spend. All thoughts and suggestions are welcome and my thanks again for the wise advice I have already received. Warm regards,
Sean

And everyone has convinced us to avoid the night trains so we are hoping to travel by rail during the day.

Quote:" My wife has heard wonderful things about Budapest. Someone suggested taking the day train from Prague because of the beauty of surrounding countryside, but it is a 7 hr trip. And then a 7 hr trip back to Munich. I thought maybe Vienna or Salzburg." Definitely I'd stay in Munich for several nights- enjoy it, relax at the end of your trip, relax before you have to fly home, and if you get restless in 4 days, then go on a day trip from Munich so you won't be changing hotels again. Do a search on this forum for suggestions. Please don't go to Budapest for one day! You are going to see more of the train or bus than the city. The country between Prague and Budapest is beautiful like the Colorado Rocky mountains, but it deserves more time -and so do you! Plan on your next trip to Europe when you can visit Vienna, Salzburg and Vienna for 2 weeks. Those are wonderful destinations, but this is your one and only honeymoon -- so do some chillin'!