Etiquette: Do NOT lean your seat back. Period.

Maybe the airlines shouldn’t have reclining seats in economy. I know it is awful when people do it.

With passengers increasingly rude & volatile I would never try to negotiate anything with another passenger. And on a long flight, especially a red eye, the only way you can rest is to recline. Short flights, I agree and I wouldn't recline unless I was not feeling well.

Barbara and Laurie Beth (a lovely name, btw), I hear you. My guess is hardly anyone will read Elliott's column so it doesn't matter that he's perhaps the foremost travel expert in the U.S. The thing is if you just lunge backward you could destroy someone's laptop, hurt someone who is 6 feet or taller, or send their food and drink splashing into their lap.

With 28 or so inches there is no room to do anything but sit there like a statue. No crossed legs. That's OK for an hour or two, but that's about it. I wish I were shorter.

Responding to Craig, below: In today's environment I'm not certain it's always feasible to discuss this with someone absent a confrontation. On a redeye flight I don't know how you can NOT lean your seat back without being even more miserable.

I agree with you. It's rude to lean your seat back given how tight space is these days.

Nobody in recent years has asked me whether it's OK to lean his/her seat back. I would never say no, but it is considerate so I can prepare for the constriction in space. I am 6 feet, 2 inches tall. I started my career in 1991 and started flying internationally in 1993. I remember a few people in the 1990s asking me.

As for myself, I only leaned my seat back once on a long flight to and from Asia. I asked the persons behind me, and he/she said it was OK on each leg of the trip.

Never asked or been asked. I dont believe self-appointed experts get to set the rules.

We all paid for a seat that reclines. Who am I to tell the person in front that they have to keep their seat in the upright position for the duration of the flight. By the same token, I am not going to ask permission of the person behind me when I want to recline. If they say no, am I going to suffer a ten hour flight trying to sleep upright? What I will do is take a look to see if the table behind me is in use, give notice to the person behind me before I recline, and then recline slowly. And when it is time for meal or drinks, I will raise my seat and will not hesitate to ask the person to do the same.

I always enjoy how there are those that will impose their etiquette. Speaking only for myself only, I don't recline. I'm okay with the seat I have, can easily catch some sleep in any number of positions and I'm just not going to impose my comfort on someone else. But I am not going to get upset or think it's rude in anyway when the passenger in the seat in front of me reclines. Has every right to. They paid for a ticket on a flight with reclining seats and it's theirs to recline. If it is so rude to recline, maybe the airlines shouldn't provide reclining seats

I dont believe self-appointed experts get to set the rules.

Totally agree. If seats aren't supposed to be reclined, under any circumstances, then the airlines wouldn't have installed reclinable seats.

Or as my grandson would say: Don't tell me what I can or cannot do. You are not the boss of me.

It's really almost becoming a non issue since Delta has reduced the ability of all seats to recline, and other airlines are following suit. I recently flew back from EDI to MSP on Delta and my seat could only recline around 2-3 inches. Normally I don't recline, since it was the trip back but the flight was underbooked and there was a seat empty to me, and also behind and in front of me, so I figured why not? But 2-3 inches really doesn't do much to add to your comfort.

Frankly, I don't really blame Delta - it's become an issue that many passengers take up arms against and the flight attendants get caught in the middle. Of course Delta (and other airlines) are also to blame since they are the ones who took away the space between rows, which enabled people to recline without interfering with the person's space behind them.

Nope. Diane is wrong, as is this post. My seat's going back. Slowly, and not during meal service, but it's going back.

Don't like it? Pay for an upgrade.

(That said, my airline status usually allows me to select extra legroom seats, and I always try to select a seat with extra legroom behind me as well, knowing they'll have a little more room.)

Maybe the airlines shouldn’t have reclining seats in economy

Many ULCCs don't: Spirit, Frontier, RyanAir, etc. I suppose anyone unhappy about the possibility of someone using the supplied recline of other airlines' seats could choose those carriers to eliminate the risk.

Point 1 in this piece from a 21-year flight attendant. (free of paywall)

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/05/24/travel/summer-travel-etiquette.html?unlocked_article_code=GRRAYIDQSg15tc8_Vrh-lMUv9LhuCG9mJTzd00a3sq8mD1snPM4J_nRQdoBP-10TXbMo-5bianpkd7kIGSISeTB8BBDed00XTQKGPzKrEOLUTcnedmiTeYsayt6z2pSEfEgGVKvTG7k48hqU-NZQxYd-hd5ybgfAHSJsNu2qL2wI9OOBN7LLld1PeMiohAxt8EyqrjSRNsviG92ArRncm4Gv56YrgdWlC7yK3LNHQSJvKyF_9oBtTquOHDcnbqtMs4JQWSjXi9nLO5748EEhRDVNpl9YL3v7LWEOV2wReB_GHbpPTTR1jk8SsDwt06Z6y8hZN53m5VBHUGxIM-jD&smid=url-share

Never been asked permission to recline seat, just a sudden jolt toward me. Almost posted this middle seat etiquette separately that I sure wasn’t aware of until this NY Times article:

The middle seat gets both armrests. It’s the consolation prize for being squished between two people with nowhere to lean. Case closed.

From: ‘Never a Reason to Take Off Your Socks’: A Flight Attendant’s 12 Etiquette Rules
5/24/23 New York Times.

Edit: Thank you Scudder for link to above article!

I'll take a reclined seat over a crying baby anytime.

Don't like it? Pay for an upgrade.

Agreed. If the seat reclines, so be it. Letting the person behind you know you are reclining seems an easy courtesy to extend.

On BA inter-Europe flights the seats lean back only slightly. I think every airline should do this on intercontinental flights in Economy. Want to lean back? Upgrade.

Sorry but the people that recline their seats so I can't use my laptop or eat are obnoxious. I had a guy on BA economy to London in front of me who refused to put his seat up so I could eat my meal. He said, like people here have said, that it was his seat so I could suck it. The FA didn't do anything, just shrugged in apology. Being the person I was, I kept the light shining in his eyes and leaned on his seat every time I got up. And I'm a calm person.

So in my mind we are paying for space. You want to sit in economy, your seat doesn't lean back into the lap of others. If you want to sleep laying back, pay more.

Actually going to be on a plane next week for the first time in two years! I try to lean back ever so slightly--certainly not a BIG recline. Just a tiny bit helps me if it is a long flight and sleep is part of the plan. With everyone on an emotional hair trigger these days I wouldn't want to spark a confrontation with someone seated right behind me. On the other hand, no one has ever asked my permission to lean their seat back in front of me. People just do it. I would be amazed if someone asked me how I felt about it!

I don't recline because I can never sleep on flights anyway! I read most of the night.
I would never deny others the chance to recline, but maybe this is a good thing, quoting Mardee from upthread,
"Delta has reduced the ability of all seats to recline, and other airlines are following suit. I recently flew back from EDI to MSP on Delta and my seat could only recline around 2-3 inches."

From VAP upthread:
"They paid for a ticket on a flight with reclining seats and it's theirs to recline. If it is so rude to recline, maybe the airlines shouldn't provide reclining seats."

If the reclining rudely issue (lurching backward) is part of what is fueling fights/violence/arguments onboard, maybe it's time for the airlines to consider those measures.

Pet Peeve:
THIS from Scudder's NYTimes article above:
"Keep your socks on.
If it’s a long flight, by all means relax and take off your shoes, but there is never a reason to take off your socks. Foot smell is inescapable. Also, keep your feet to yourself. It is not acceptable to rest your feet on the armrest of the person in front. And I highly recommend putting your footwear back on to use the lavatory."

Ugh!

What kind of planes are you people flying on? My reclining seats have, at best, been two or three inches at the very top. The reclines doesn't the clear the headrest of the seat next to me. In the middle of that seat it is an inch or so. Hardily enough to damage a lap top. I think this is much to do about nothing.

I don't lean my seat back unless the passenger sitting in front of me reclines into my space.

Another Pet Peeve from the NYTimes article posted by Scudder:

The airline flight attendant wrote:
"Don’t discipline other people’s kids.
Nothing makes a flight more miserable than the back of your seat becoming a punching bag. However, if a child behind you is being disruptive, address the parents. You don’t have the right to yell at someone else’s child. A nice way to approach this is to ask the parents calmly, and with a smile, if they realize their child is kicking your seat. Then say it’s bothersome; is there any way you can you make the child stop? This way you are not accusing in your tone, and are asking instead of being bossy."

I'm sorry....it is not my place to speak with the parents or the children!
It's the responsibility of the flight attendant, whether they relish the task or not.
The flight attendant is an authority figure on that plane, representing the airline, and I am not.
They enforce any rules, not me.

It is also their chance to diffuse/mediate the situation by phrasing the request to the parents in a way that does not escalate the conversation.

The sad thing is, if the parents haven't already said "No, stop that!" to the child on their own, then they are the new breed of people who don't care, period, what their kids do to other people. Manners are no longer being taught to children, in some cases.

Anybody with more insight into the airline industry, can you explain why the airlines are so indifferent to the complaints of passengers to these comfort issues (not to mention the excess carryon problem)? They could at least address seat reclining in their boarding spiel - "folks, please let the person behind you know if you're going to recline". Or something like that, to help set the expectations. Could help with the cabin crew complaints of bad passenger behavior.

can you explain why the airlines are so indifferent to the complaints of passengers to these comfort issues

Simple. It's because it's been calculated by someone, somewhere, that the cost of addressing them would not provide a positive return to the bottom line.

the people that recline their seats so I can't use my laptop or eat are obnoxious

From the lack of space to typing elbows jamming neighbors, coach seats simply aren't meant for laptops, from the lack. Employers who expect staff to work during flights should be paying for first/business. (Just like they should be paying overtime for anyone traveling outside of working hours or above 40/hrs a week.)

What kind of planes are you people flying on? My reclining seats have, at best, been two or three inches at the very top. 

On United's 767 "high J"s Premium Plus recline is 6 inches and 4 inches in Economy and on 777-200s PP is again 6 inches, E+ 4 inches and E 3 inches.

If you do not like reclining passengers, then do not fly airlines with reclining seats. To expect others to conform to your expectation of restrictive behavior is the height of narcissism. Yeah, it is a bit annoying on a 1-2 hour flight, but on a transatlantic flight? You just have unrealistic expectations.

I always lean around and ask the person behind me if they mind me reclining.
No one has ever said no, in 50 years of flying.
I do it in stages , so it’s not all at once.
I always put my seat back up during meals, and I would also ask the person in front to do it too if they haven’t already.
My big peeve is people who pull my seat backwards to get themselves out into the aisle.
Worse is the ones who pull my hair at the same time.
On most long haul planes, you can lift up all the armrests, even the aisle one, to be able to slide out more easily toward the aisle.
I always wanted to be taller, but not while I’m flying!

Remember when flying was fun?………🧐

Never asked or been asked. I dont believe self-appointed experts get
to set the rules.

What Stan said. It's my seat and I'll do what I need to do to be comfortable. I don't like it when the person in front does it, but what can I do? He paid for a reclining seat too.

I felt a claustrophobic panic attack coming on just from reading the OP's post:
https://community.ricksteves.com/travel-forum/transportation/it-s-going-to-end-with-panic-attacks

Since I always sit in Economy for the non-stop 11 hour flight, it stands to reason that I always lean the seat back....depends. As pointed out, I've never been asked nor do I ask. No one has ever complained either.

On the other hand, I have often sat behind some joker with his seat leaned to the max.. A bit taxing, but then I know I'll come through the flight fresh and fit, but will he with his seat having imposed into my space?

As seen from the responses above, there is no universally accepted custom or etiquette with reclining seats. I have never had a passenger sitting in front of me ask for permission to recline his seat or ask me to let him know if his reclined seat becomes an issue.

This is a problem the airlines created by compressing so much passenger space and having reclining seats, and it is one they will have to resolve. And the easy answer is to restrict how far back seats can recline. If a seat can go back only two inches, no more I can do what I want with the seat I paid for, and no more how rude you are for reclining your seat the way you are doing it.

Interesting...

Travelling out of NZ I've always expected that seats would be reclined. They will go up for meal service and then back again. Most trans-pacific flights are over night.

I do often wonder if those travelling out of San Francisco or LA or Vancouver to Europe realise that the person behind, beside or in front of them may have already endured 14 hours of flying immediately before they joined them? Makes your 10 or whatever-hour flight seem not so bad, right? I'd forgive some crankiness and suggest trying to be more understanding of why someone needs to sleep and recline on a daytime flight.

The only time I've encountered any recline discussion mid flight was on a LAX to Auckland overnight flight. When I (gently) reclined, the person behind asked if I wouldn't as they wanted to sleep with their head on the tray (eew). I already had the person in front of me fully reclined, so that wasn't practical, which they accepted and we all lived to see another day without causing a diversion to a Pacific Island outpost.

I also find that a footrest is soo much more helpful than recline for sleep and comfort. I wish more airlines had footrests!

There must be some cultural aspects to this, or maybe it is just the rude Parisian in me, but I would never expect to be asked for permission to recline, and asking would never occur to me. Short haul European plane seats often don't recline anyway, so that's mostly a long-haul issue.

Don’t sit behind me. I recline. I don’t need permission

It’s rude to use the seat as designed because the person behind you would like to control your behavior. And that’s not rude at all😂

Rebecca, as a teacher for several decades I agree with you.

As far as seat reclining, well, just because you can do something doesn't mean you should. Consideration for others is becoming a lost virtue.

"Lunge" and "Lurch" I do neither with my seat. Instead, I slowly recline it and then sleep between meals. On the last 3 flight legs (yesterday) so did the person sitting in front of me on all three legs. I purchased Basic Economy knowing full well that the rules of the ticket include reclining seats and minimal knee space. I chose the tickets anyway.

Wait, so one comment above said it shouldnt be done because of how much tighter the seats are now? So its okay to lunge and lurch in Premium Economy? Is that our new rule?

The next argument is who gets the armrests on the center seat. The young lady on the long haul flight, bumped my arm, then apolgized and smiled ........... I melted, she got the arm rest after that.

Sorry BMWBGV, you know I love ya man.

Now, if I start to recline and the guy behind me politely says somehting to the effect of excuse me, but my leg is in a cast and I cant move it out of the way of your seat, then I think it would be rude of me to not take that into consideration. On the otherhand, if the guy behind me was 6'-6" tall, it would be rude of him not to take me into consideration when he bought Basic Economy. He should have upgraded. But no, I would not have reclined, but only to avoid confrontation with the rude man. I actually went through this many years ago. I politely asked the flight attendant for a seat with some room behind it. The flight attendent solved it by moving me to a seat in front of the exit row. The guy didnt like that either and suggested that i stay and he move into the exit row. First, he should not have been listening to my conversation, second the flight attndent pointed out that he didnt pay for the exit row seat.

Mister E, right back at you. I respect your perspective.

On the otherhand, if the guy behind me was 6'-6" tall, it would be
rude of him not to take me into consideration when he bought Basic
Economy.

I love that perspective.

I'm not a recliner. Unlike many people, the angle of a reclined airplane seat hurts my back. I need to be more vertical, like this |_.

This article from the Washington Post last summer is more general but definitely relevant, "The rules of flying like a decent human": https://wapo.st/3qsQlru

Lo, that's a good column by the WaPo. It's good manners to at least see who's behind you before leaning back.

The airlines should hand-out this sort of advice to passengers.

Thankfully I've never needed an article to tell be how to be considerate to and mindful of those around me.

From the first paragraph of the WaPo article --

The airlines are largely to blame for why flying is so unpleasant...and stuffing passengers into seats with just a few inches of legroom.

And BigMikeWestByGodVirginia --

It used to be fine, back when there was enough space (34 inches between economy class seats should be a standard). But those days are long gone.

Well I do place some of the blame on passengers for the reduced legroom. There was that time prior to 2003 that AA had generous leg room In economy of 33 to 35 inches and marketed themselves as "more room in coach". Only their marketing failed and passengers would rather have had the cheapest tickets than more leg room. AA reduced leg room to 31 inches.

Well I do place some of the blame on passengers for the reduced legroom. There was that time prior to 2003 that AA had generous leg room In economy of 33 to 35 inches and marketed themselves as "more room in coach". Only their marketing failed and passengers would rather have had the cheapest tickets than more leg room. AA reduced leg room to 31 inches.

This. Many folks don't want to hear it, but it's true. As was noted in another thread, some airlines are now adding more premium seats because more people are willing to pay more money for them. They react to what we--the flying public--do with our dollars. Do I wish there were more room in regular economy seats and I didn't have to shell out extra money for more space? Of course, but the market has spoken.

“Don’t sit behind me. I recline. I don’t need permission”.

100% agree with you Carol. On an 11 hr flight, i’m reclining. I am not sitting like an L for 11 hrs.

People in coach that don’t like the person in front reclining should pay more for a better seat.

How on earth is someone supposed to turn around and ask you? There is no space to stand - personally I can't rotate my entire upper body and 1/2 rise to get line of sight to whoever is behind me. I recline my seat if want to - I don't' slam it back - and I return upright during meal service - and most airlines the crew will ask everyone to do the same - I won't recline again until they clear the trays

ETA - read the article and I'm disappointed because I've always had some respect for that website. However this account doesn't ring true from someone who flys Jetstar NZ domestic a lot. The seats recline only a tiny bit - and they recline from the top - regardless of where your knees are the seat back isn't going to move relative to them. Jetstar seats don't even recline enough to impmact a fullsize laptop on the table behind

I will only recline after the lights are out for sleeping - and I do it very slowly and carefully.

But I will find the hardest thing within reach and hammer on the knees pressed into the back of my seat.

I would get annoyed if someone reclined their seat... BUT BUT... the seats recline for a reason. So when are you suppose to do it?
If it is etiquette not to, then why have the feature at all?

I get annoyed when someone grabs my chair for them to get up. I don't mean just gently, but down right like shake the chair and wake me from my sleep.

Looks like I’m late to the party. Anyway, I’m short and I’m not sure if the ergonomics of it, but reclining just a bit makes sitting for long lengths more comfortable. I never recline during meal service.

Question, on my recent flight, every time I moved the seat would pop back up to upright. Is this normal? Did the person behind do something to cause that? I felt bad about continuing to recline again after the seat popped to upright.

Jules, good question. Hard to say but maybe someone else would know.

Did you know "Jules" was the original name Paul McCartney used in "Hey Jude"? He decided "Jules" was a bit of a mouthful and changed it to "Jude." Just throwing that out there for no good reason.

Jules for Julian Lennon, John Lennon's son. Paul was inspired to write song while visiting an estranged Cynthia and Julian.

I don't feel the need to recline because I take day flights. That doesn't mean I don't. If the person ahead of me reclines, I will check behind me for two things: 1. Is there a large person behind me? 2. Is that person's seat reclined? If the answer to 1. is yes, I won't. If the answer to 2. is yes, I will most likely.

Getting up. I'm sorry, but I need to grab the reclined seat to get out of my seat, armrest raised and all. I just don't maneuver at that weird angle without support anymore, They reclined, there are logistical consequences. LOL

Now if someone's hair is hanging into my area, I do have a problem. Gross. The person in front of me did not pay for that service.

This all being said, when traveling alone I am leaning toward Premium Economy where it isn't such a problem. However, some people I might travel with will be on more of a budget so not always.

I try to lean back ever so slightly--certainly not a BIG recline. Just a tiny bit helps me. . . On the other hand, no one has ever asked my permission to lean their seat back in front of me.

Exactly the same for me, Pete. I don't think I’ve reclined fully in years. But I certainly haven't had anyone ask me if they can recline (I don't either, but then as I said, I am not reclining very much at all).

I also find that a footrest is soo much more helpful than recline for sleep and comfort. I wish more airlines had footrests!

I agree 100%, Kiwi! My last two trips I finally tried one of those hammock-y things that kind of creates a footrest. I won't travel without one again ! It made such a difference in my comfort.

You paid for your seat so do whatever you want. If someone else doesn't like it, remind them of where the Sun doesn't shine.

Of course I'm kidding, but I know a lot of people who feel that way.

HEADS UP EVERYONE: I generally fly from Austin to Frankfurt on Lufthansa and I generally get an aisle seat in the center section, Always in the first 15 rows.

I say this because if on the same flight you may want to sit other then aisle in the center section in the first 15 rows, because I recline my seat and sleep in between meals.

So I was on a flight last week and this issue kind of came up and it made me laugh. Thought some of you would like it.

The man across the aisle from me leaned forward and told the woman in front of him not to recline her seat. He was rather adamant and about it, and she seemed a little taken back. He then slams his seat back as far as he can. She gets up to go to the bathroom and comes back and realizes that Mr. jerk has slammed his seat back as far as he can, and she proceeds to do the same thing. he taps her again to tell her about how he told her not to recline her seat, and she told him she noticed he had reclined and so she assumed she could do the same thing. He pushed the button and asked for the flight attendant to explain that he does not want that seat reclined. the flight attendant smiled , and said, sir seats recline and went back to her station. Apparently most of the first class cabin have been watching this entertainment, and we were all fighting back laughter.

The best part was, I said something to the woman as we walked off the plane about the situation, and she told me that normally she didn’t recline anyway. The only reason she reclined was to put this jerk in his place.

"Just When I Thought I Was Out, They Pull Me Back In."

• Michael Corleone