(Reuters) Delta Air Lines and United Airlines were sued on Tuesday by passengers who claimed they paid extra money to sit in "window" seats, only to find themselves placed in seats next to a blank wall.
Proposed class actions were filed against United in San Francisco federal court and against Delta in Brooklyn, New York federal court, seeking millions of dollars of damages for more than 1 million passengers at each carrier.
Good. People should not pay extra for something that they don’t receive. If the “window” seat lacks a window, it should be indicated and not sold at the same price as other window seats. Like how “obstructed” balcony cabins are indicated as such on cruise ships.
How is it possible for the airlines to claim they were unaware of this situation? There’s only one word to describe charging 100,000 customers— wait, it’s a million customers!— for a seat described as a window seat when the seat is not adjacent to a window—— fraud.
Delta and United won’t want me on THAT jury!
How is it possible for experienced Travelers to claim they were unaware of this situation? For them to not understand that while seat configurations can change, the locations of the windows can not change is pretty hard to believe. Now the obvious is fraud? We all know that in reality if not in description that "Window" denotes an end of the row of seats, not a window. To pretend otherwise is just greed. The cost of the airline defending itself from this sort of nonsense and greed adds a few dollars to every plane ticket.
I’m an aisle seat person, but my husband wants a window seat, specifically for the views through the window. No window, no “window seat,” no question.
The only type of seat that a passenger won’t expect to have some bonus desired attribute is a middle seat, and none of those are identified as anything other than “middle.” With so many airlines now charging extra for specific seats, being accurate as to a seat’s specifics is necessary.
The theater analogy is accurate. We’ve just booked seats for several performances coming up in London this fall, and were glad to know what seats had obstructed views, or limited knee room, or a high wall in front of seats, or stools instead of chairs, etc. The discounted prices weren’t enough to sway getting crappy seats, but having the theater provide the information was essential to having satisfied customers. Describing a seat inaccurately amounts to false advertising, and some of that money obtained through misidentification is going back to wronged customers. Take in less money beforehand, or pay out more later - sounds very fair.
This happens on trains as well. Considering that more scenery is available during a train trip, I would find this more annoying. I know because it's happened to me.
But I never thought of suing.
If I remember correctly, Seat Guru used to mark seats with "Obstructed views."
I share Mr E's perspective on this one. No matter the outcome, this type of nuisance litigation drives up the cost of air travel and increases complexity. Class action rubbish.
It is possible to pay more for a seat closer to the front, or more legroom, but not a window seat specifically. At least on Delta, not sure about United. I’ve noticed several European airlines charge more for reserving window vs middle seats, there might be a case there.
I have chosen (but not paid extra for) a window expecting a view and then been told to lower the shade, THAT is worth suing over.
Edit: I have a connecting international flight coming up on United and it is not possible to pay more for a window on either flight.
My airline of choice is WestJet and it charges more for windows and aisles than it does for the middle seat. I always thought that 'window' was just a term to indicate the seats closest to the windows, not that your seat actually includes a view.
Agree with Mr. E and Allan. I understand it to mean the seat not on the aisle and not in the middle.
I guess they have to start calling it the inside seat.
This offers more information, but I know it is still not possible to pay more on either Delta or United for window seat vs the middle seat next to it.
On Delta, we have never had to pay extra for either a window or an aisle seat in Main Cabin (now "Main Cabin Classic") --- is the "extra money for a window" thing only for higher classes?
Hi Nancy:
No, even in this higher classes window and middle seats are priced identically.
Classic example of modern journalism. The key premise isn’t verified, a false premise is just amplified.
I guess they have to start calling it the inside seat.
And cue the confusion. To me the 'inside seat' would be the aisle seat and the outside seat would be the window side.
I just checked my next two trips, KLM to Amsterdam charges more for a window seat if you book in advance but not if you book during check-in. I couldn't find the costs though. When you book a seat on the app it shows the location of the windows.
WestJet to London charges 10% more for a window seat than a middle seat and about 8% more for aisle vs. middle. The WestJet App doesn't show location of windows but I don't see any mention of the terms window/middle/aisle. Seats are lettered ABCDEF for a standard 3/3 configuration.
Allan. No, they charge less for an aisle seat and even less for a middle seat. And i would be interested in a pre-lawsuit survey on seat preference and why. Curious how many want the window for the view vs its easier to sleep or some other reason.
The second part of the controversy was hinted at above, first inflight arguments were about reclining. Now they are about putting down shades.
I've seen several flight vloggers recently who were quite upset that the flight attendants came around and told everyone to put down their shade after takeoff, regardless of time of day.
A United flyer and it is fair to say that greatly prefer window seats. I enjoy the views and I only have to worry about the possibility of one person who wants to be conversational.
I know that -
1) Windows are fixed, seat density can change, and seats are not always going to align with windows. Some seats and aircraft are better than others.
2) United does not charge for seats, seat selection is included in the ticket. One is buying a fare class, one does not buy window or aisle seats. In economy class, economy plus seats are sold as extra leg room while priority seats are sold as standard legroom positioned to the front of the economy cabin. I do not recall ever viewing a map from United that specifically shows seat and window alignment or specifically sells a window seat. When looking at United's seat maps I'm offered to select seats labeled as A,B,C or J, K, L. While I may assume A or L seats are window seats, United didn't tell me that. I use secondary sources such as Aerolopa.com to check for windows and alignment.
for a seat described as a window seat when the seat is not adjacent to a window—— fraud.
Where does United say window seats? How is that fraud? Aren't we assuming?
Delta and United won’t want me on THAT jury!
So you already made a decision without hearing evidence?
An inexperienced tourist might not realize that "window seat" is tourist vernacular and not airline marketing. They also might assume that when the seats are rearranged that the sides of the plane are ripped off so the windows can be moved to align with the seats. I think the experienced travelers here understand. The threshold for a law suit (this one will get tossed before it reaches a courtroom, one would hope) will be reasonable expectations. But I guess it could be an 11 to 1 decision.
An inexperienced tourist might not realize that "window seat" is
tourist vernacular and not airline marketing.
That was my thought when this post started, that airlines don't advertise it that way. But Delta isn't helping itself. They have shops called 'Window Seat Shop.' https://news.delta.com/window-shopping-new-level-delta-opens-window-seat-shop
Allan, it's a shame there is so much greed and self-victimization that even that can feed into a gotcha situation.
The lawsuit noted that American Airlines and Alaska Airlines inform customers if the seats they want to purchase don't have windows. This transparency from competitor airlines forms part of the legal argument that Delta and United could easily remedy the situation.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/companies/delta-and-united-face-lawsuits-over-controversial-windowless-seats/ar-AA1L1Sam?cvid=7ea16ed0d03b44e0f3ac1327855bdc8b&ei=17
Looks to be something of a self-inflicted wound.
I came across Allan’s related posting that shows various pricing for various seat placements. I was surprised that window (wall?) seats were the costliest. I’d thought that discerning passengers overwhelmingly preferred aisle seats, and if any seats came with higher prices, they’d be the ones on the aisles. Interesting.
As I replied on that other thread, if actual “wall” seats are considered premium, cargo planes could start getting used, and imagine what those seats might cost! And no conflicts about shades up or down, or windows clear or obscured.
joe32F if the marketing implied that you would have a view, then yes. If the marketing made no such claim, then no.
The next class action lawsuit will be full refunds because KLM didnt bank the plane when crossing over Paris so everyone could see the Eiffel Tower. It as a fair expectation as the tower is shown in Air France marketing and Air France owns KLM.
