Delta first class “not offered”

That seems bizarre and I think the Delta agent was just giving you a throw-away answer.

I love Delta, they are my airline of choice but I'm not an expert. Are the flights you are looking at actually on Delta "metal" or are they on a codeshare partner?

I had a flight to Milan last Fall and was unable to book the Paris to Milan portion as First Class on Delta even though it showed First class available on the AF site. I decided it did not matter for that short trip so just went with the Economy class seat.

I'd also understood that Delta uploads schedule changes on Saturdays (no confirmation on that, may just be an urban legend) so I'd look again on Sunday AFTER clearing your cookies. I have been told that clearing cookies does not affect it but sometimes...I think it does, lol.

Can't wait for other answers on this!

No idea but it might be time to call instead of using the internet. Call early in the morning. Be patient.

are any of the flight segments code-shared?

Definitely Delta flights, showing either standard first class or Delta One configurations. Initial and final legs are via regional jet to/fr JFK, but still showing as Delta. Seats in main cabin either have a person icon which reads “this seat is taken” or an X which reads “this seat is unavailable,” whereas the first class seats have neither designation. I found one flight with one first class seat with the person icon (not a flight I’m interested in, just playing around on the website).
I actually did speak with an agent by phone. She put me on hold to look into what was going on, then came back to say the seats were all sold but no one had chosen their seat yet. I didn’t feel like arguing with her. Most likely couldn’t afford the first class anyway, but you never know….there seems to be quite the range of first class prices.
Will try again on Sunday for sure.

I wonder if they are short on flight attendants and are therefore not using the first class rows?

Ruth,
I’m intrigued…

Do you mind sharing your departure and arrival airports?

She put me on hold to look into what was going on, then came back to say the seats were all sold but no one had chosen their seat yet. I didn’t feel like arguing with her.

It might be a group booking for a sports team or players. Is there any major international sporting event (eg. tennis players headed to Wimbledon from the US, golf, world championships) scheduled in your destination city?

Or a high level political delegation headed overseas.

Ah yes, those famously large tennis and golf teams !

I noticed the same thing on my trip from Atlanta to Amsterdam. I had front row seats in premium economy for my wife & I and due to a flight change/merge Delta has now split us up which has my wife ready to cancel the trip. I inquired about first class as many of the seats had an "X" but they did quote me a price ($6000 I believe- one way) so I don't think the seats are taken. Air travel comes with complications.

those famously large tennis and golf teams

Top tennis players have an entourage of people that travel with them - coach, family, physiotherapist, massage therapist, manager etc.

Many airlines are actually getting rid of their first class sections and expanding business class and premium economy. Airlines make their money on upper classes and not in economy. It's possible that Delta is converting their planes and hope to have the conversions done for those flights.

There could also be group bookings but it would be interesting to know which flights

If you are talking about regional flights in the US, most of these "Delta" fights are actually operated by smaller airlines under the "Delta Connection" banner. Delta could be changing the operator of the flights or the current operator could be getting newer planes.

You say these flights are for June so that is plenty of time to see changes.

Priscilla — I posted on this forum because it’s my go to for all things related to European travel and has so much collective wisdom…but (full disclosure) the flights in question are actually all domestic. Ithaca NY to SFO via JFK. Delta has just opened its regional ithaca/JFK route. Small regional jets to/fr JFK with nonstops both ways JFK to SFO and SFO to JFK.

Frank II — the website shows planes from JFK to SFO and from SFO to JFK with Delta One first class configurations. (I’m not concerned about the regional jets because they’re short flights). There aren’t a lot of good options for the return flight and I thought a red eye might be okay if we could snag first class at a not too exorbitant price. I’m finding a huge range of prices for the red eye option, so wanted to explore if it might be a possibility on Delta. May end up giving up on that possibility and taking all daytime flights and flying coach.

This article might shed some light on it. https://thepointsguy.com/news/delta-air-lines-seat-blocking-families/

Seat maps are never a reliable indicator of remaining inventory. Never. And saying the Delta agent might have given a “throw away answer” is an baseless, ignorant attack on someone just doing thier job.

ExpertFlier is the best resource I know to look at tickets available in all fare categories on any given intinerary. It’s a pretty wonky resource, and very limited without paid subscription.

Talking to a different agent (i know you said you’d call again on Sunday) might get a different answer from the one the agent you spoke to gave you.

First class really is offered — just not under that name. It’s more business class.

For JFK <—> SFO, the premium cabin is Delta One, the same premium cabin name as for transatlantic & transpacific flights. I am surprised that customer service didn’t tell you that. I picked several days in June to/from SFO and there are plenty of seats all day.

I’ve been looking at flights SJC to ATL and I keep seeing “not offered” for first class on flights that I know have that cabin. On other flights it shows sold out. Rather bizarre

Terminology alert...be careful about what you call the nice seats up front. And it makes a world of difference if you are talking about international versus domestic flights.

"First class" (aka "domestic first") on domestic flights isn't particularly special or fancy. It's typically a nicer seat, definitely more roomy, but no lay-flat seat/bed; you'll typically get some sort of food/drink that's not handed out as freely in the back.

Not to be confused with "international first class" (which is indeed disappearing rapidly from almost all airlines), and "Business class" which is now often a lot nicer that what used to pass for "first class." Only a handful of airlines still have true "first class" on international routes. Mostly you'll find international "business class" which can be very luxurious, or just slightly better than premium economy, it all depends on the airline and individual plane.

"Business class" within Europe is typically nothing to get excited over, it's often nothing more than a coach set with the middle seat (in a set of three) "blocked" (so empty), plus maybe free drinks/better food.

To further muddy the waters, some airlines use their own marketing terms which may or may not help. Delta calls their business class "Delta One." United calls their business class "Polaris." There are other names and minor variants.

Generally speaking, on smaller jets, the difference between coach and domestic "first" may be pretty minor (flights on the smaller jets usually are fairly short, so hopefully not a big deal).

To the OP's question - flight schedules, and the details of the aircraft slotted for that flight, often change. It's quite possible that Delta (or any other airline) may not be displaying valid, reliable details for seating. Those details should become more clear as you get close to the actual flight date. I don't know what's going on in your case, but the regional flight will be on a small jet (or prop plane) and I wouldn't expect too much accuracy for seat layouts. As mentioned above, there are other tools which are generally more reliable for viewing seating details, but they're not all free and often quite wonky (I use ExpertFlyer's paid version and it's very useful at times, but there's a learning curve). If your flight isn't until June, I would not be surprised if how the seats are represented changes (maybe more than a few times) between now and then. Delta shuffles their schedules (and aircraft) regularly, so expect some churn.

Seat Selection Not Available at this Time
Unfortunately, seats in the Delta One® experience you have chosen are not currently available for selection on this seat map. After booking you can explore your seat options at any time in My Trips.

If you are certain of your plans, you could by the ticket, then go to the "My trips" to select seats. If that does not work you coulld cancel within the 24 hr refund window.

Oddly, it is possible to book a coach itinerary and select seats.

Cue Rod Serling.....

Thanks, everyone. I’m really just exploring options right now and was mainly surprised by the “not offered” for anything beyond Delta Comfort on many flights.

Mardee, I did see several rows of seats in coach marked “not available” and others marked “this seat is taken,” as your article indicated. But the seats in delta one show up on the plane without either of these designations when you choose to look at seats. They’re just not showing up on the page where you see the various prices for each class and choose one of these. So…odd.

Scudder, I was extremely polite and thanked the agent for her help.

Continental, I know the cabin is called Delta One. That’s specifically what was shown on the plane seat map. But numerous flights say “not offered” for everything higher than Delta Comfort on the page where you choose which type of seat you want. Not every flight— but enough of them that it seems odd to me.

David: As I said, I’m just exploring options right now. If I were flying to Europe on a red eye and wanted to splurge on seats, I’d want lay flat seats. But if I’m flying a red eye SFO to JFK and the price was right, I might spend more for first class because of the 2 seat configuration (there are 2 of us traveling) and slightly larger seats. I’m more likely to actually get some sleep that way, vs being sardined in coach. Alaska offers not-so-fancy first class for a few hundred dollars more than coach on some routes thru Newark. United and American want thousands for their first class seats. I just wanted to explore what delta charged, and for the flights that did show a Delta One option there was a huge range of prices.

I’m fine with coach on daytime flights, but since SFO to JFK basically means an entire day or an entire night (given the time zone changes) I just thought I’d explore red eye options.

It is my understanding and experience that the "x" on a seat on the seat map are seats set aside by the airline to be assigned at a later time. Often they are exit rows or back of the plane. I believe it is to allow for flexibility for families that want to sit together but purchased basic economy seats. If a seat is already selected by a passenger, it will indicate, "Unavailable".

There have been times when I've been unable to pick a seat for myself because all the seats were either unavailable or X'd. I've called Delta and they've opened up a x’d seat so that I could select a seat.

Ruth, can you provide a date or two and departing and arriving airports so I can see what you see? Thanks.

"And saying the Delta agent might have given a “throw away answer” is an baseless, ignorant attack on someone just doing thier job."

Holy cow, Scudder. I certainly did not mean to push a hot button here nor did I set out to insult your and yours or a possibly not-well-trained phone agent. BTW, I am not ignorant. I've had conversations with Delta agents that I knew were just wrong, hung up and called back and got better trained agents.

I see a lot of theories about tennis groups and staffing, etc. Just a note that’s not it - it’s Delta IT. It’s not as bad as Southwest that day but it’s hardly state of the art.

This is the same company that occasionally tells me they don’t fly planes out of Atlanta on their website. Think about that for a few minutes, they don’t fly flights out of Atlanta and their Delta Airlines. .😂😂😂😂😂🥲😂

Have you tried searching for Delta One seats only? Not First Class? It’s my understanding that Delta’s lie flat seats are all now called Delta One.

Have you considered running this question through the Delta forum on FlyerTalk? We have extensive knowledge on this forum, but they have “experts” who are either employees or follow the individual airline routinely.