cheapest way to travel within Europe

We're probably not going to do Eurail--it's too expensive. Buses are slower, and we will be spending more time traveling, but hey--traveling in Europe? Still amazing.

Where do you want to go? Have you used the search feature?

We're starting in Spain b/c of a church conference, and we want to visit Paris, Nice, Venice, Switzerland, the Netherlands, and London. I'd love to see Greece but it's way on the other side of the country. What search should I use?

2 weeks is not sufficient time to cover all of Europe. I would suggest narrowing this to one, two or at the most three neighboring countries. Eurail offers several options and it is by far the most efficient way to travel. A rental car would be horribly expensive if you plan on putting any significant mileage on it. Part of the experience for many of us, is the riding of the rails.

2 weeks is all I get...probably forever. :(

I've also looked at the Eurail passes for 3, 4, or 5 countries, and they're only like $20-50 cheaper than the Global Pass, which is for 20 countries

How sad that you have the thought that two weeks may be all you have forever. If you are old, you might be right. If you are young, I would suggest that you are slightly dillusional. Life is much better than that.

Since it appears that you not only want to fly to Europe you want to fly through it as well, a global pass is not a good value as you may only have one or two train trips in each country. Where you can research and find them, buses are usually a more inexpensive way to travel.

In Italy, anywhere throughout the country, it's a good value and they are almost as fast as the trains. You can try www.sitabus.it and www.sena.it for starters. There are many more smaller companies. For Tuscany, try www.trainspa.it and www.sangimignano.net. In Switzerland, there are bus routes througout the entire country.

The search feature is on the upper right section of your screen. Type in a specific question or phrase.

Two weeks is enough time for one half of your listed countries. Maybe Spain and France this time. Where are you flying in and out?

I'm young but my husband hates to travel. He's sending me with his sister "to get me off his back about Europe". My question about buses is if they travel across countries as well as within countries.

I strongly agree with the others who have recommended that you cut back on the number of countries you plan to visit. As it stands you will spend too much time traveling and too little time actually experiencing life in a city or town. Two nights is a minimum stay in a major city. You'll use part of the first day getting to that city and part of the third day getting to your next destination, leaving you with only one full day in each city. Three or four nights would be far better.

When will you take this trip? If it's far enough in the future, you should be able to get cheap tickets on budget airlines which will cut down your travel time between countries. See these search engines: www.whichbudget.com and www.skyscanner.net. Travel by budget airline for long distances and by train for shorter distances, buying point-to-point train tickets rather than a pass. Or if you limit yourself to neighboring countries, do all your traveling by train. Or possibly by Eurolines bus.

Bus service varies by country. It's good within Spain and Italy, but train travel in Italy is relatively inexpensive. Within France there is regional bus service but no long distance service. For service between countries, see www.eurolines.com. A Eurolines pass might work for you.

Thank you for the website for Eurolines! That's exactly what I was looking for. Our trip will be the first 2 weeks of December.

The more experienced travelers all agree that your travel plan is "nuts." BUT, lets see if we can prove that assumption. OK -- you have 14 days ?? knock a day off of each end for travel - 12 days? Now decide if you want to a tourist or travelers -- my definitions. Tourist tend to fly by and say, "Yep !!! been there, saw that !!" Travelers absorb, linger, understand,learn, appreciate. May spend a whole afternoon sitting in a sidewalk cafe watching the people pass or wandering through streets with no direction in mind. Simply enjoying the experience, the atmosphere. In someways, there is a lot of sameness to Europe -- old buildings, castles, narrow streets.

Ok -- if you are a tourist -- you need to change locations frequently, pack, unpack, find train stations, waiting for trains, find hotels, etc., etc., etc., -- that all takes time. When we change locations we plan on losing at least a half if not a full day plus the travel time. You need to account for that in your travel plans. So add it up yourself.

Most of us will probably recommend you pick three or four cities. If you are starting in Spain -- Madrid or Barcelona to Paris to London -- maybe Amsterdam in between Paris and London --- would be an agressive schedule but provide an excellent overview of Europe. For you, booking an open jaw ticket is critical.

But if still stuck on flying through Europe, an organized tour might work for you since they take care of the relocation problems and provide a quick overview of everything.

When do you want to do this?

Find a package bus tour if you really want to see the most in two weeks. They will take care of the transportation and accommodation planning and zip you around plenty of sites.

Thank you, Frank. I'm a stay-at-home mom with 2 small kids, and 2 weeks away ANYWHERE is a dream. That it's Europe is unbelievable. Rick Steve's website recommends the Global Eurail pass for those who want to see lots of countries w/ travel almost daily. So it IS done, and that's what I want to do. I'm a tourist.

A package bus tour sounds great. I don't need hotel accommodations anywhere since I know people in almost every city (through my church).

Just to let you know that your Eurail pass is for trains and not buses. Also, if you ride any Eurostar trains in Italy, you will pay and additional 18Euro extra for seat reservations. Some trains in other countries also have supplemental fees on top of your Eurail pass but it's usually much less.

PS -- I forgot to mention how exhausting it can be to constantly travel and shift locations. You will have to sleep for a week after you return. If you are determined for a whirlwind tour of Europe, look for packages. That will be the only way to retain a little sanity. And probably cheaper.

To me, that's a small price to pay. Actually, I would love to sleep for a week... :) Thanks for all the info!

Jody, have you thought this through? Think about taking a bus from Austin, TX to Cleveland, OH, then on to Atlanta, GA. Still sound like a ton of fun? Scale back your plans and ENJOY the trip.

If you decide to go with the Eurolines pass, be sure to read their conditions. It's not nearly as flexible as train passes. You can only use it for international journeys with a few exceptions (Madrid-Barcelona and Hamburg-Frankfurt). So basically you can only go London-Paris-Rome, etc. not Paris-Nice or Rome-Venice. Also - they only serve major cities, so you won't be able to visit the small towns in Switzerland unless you buy a separate train or bus ticket.

Also, they strongly advise you make reservations at least 48 hours in advance for each leg. Because almost all journeys are significant distances they are overnight - the plus is this maximizes your sightseeing time. However, be aware that you probably won't sleep very well, so try to spend at least 2 nights in each destination!

One last thing - try to plan ahead and book your departure flight out of the last city you visit so you don't have to backtrack all the way to Spain. Oh, and leave your husband AT HOME if you want to go back! I do it all the time!!

Never thought I would ever say this, but I think an organized tour would be the best way to go.

Jody, you should take a step back and reconsider. You are getting good advice here from people who know what they're talking about. You, on the other hand, admit you've never been to Europe. You really think you know better? Why?

What you are proposing will be an utterly miserable experience. It will just be an utterly miserable experience in Europe. Does that make it worthwhile? I don't think so. Especially when you could have a great time in Europe if you simply take some of the advice that has been offered.

Maybe this will be the only time in your life that you get to go to Europe (actually, it sounds like that's your choice....the fact that you have kids and a husband who is unenthusiastic about Europe does not disqualify you from returning, unless you make that choice). If that's the case, what a tragedy it would be if your one and only trip to Europe was essentially a tour of a string of bus stations. That's what it sounds like you're in for. Why waste the money (never mind the opportunity)?

Do yourself a big favor and be realistic. After you get home you will be glad you did.

Having traveled in Europe for over 20 years, I can recommend travel by bus.

Auto rental is far too expensive. I would research as much as you can on the net to plan your travel by bus.

And as one poster recommended, fly open jaw so you don't back-track.

I am afraid a lot of time our geography fails us and we think we can just flint from city to city in
Europe losing little time in between. For this trip a little research might help so that you can decide what you wish to see that means something to you instead of just wanting to be in Europe. I know you wish to savour your freedom for the two weeks and so you should, but if you relax and visit with a reasonable stay in two or three cities you might be in a better frame of mind, with better memories than just hoping on and off various modes of transportation, to convince your husband to travel with you and enjoy the splendors of europe. Good luck.

I'm not suggesting that there's anything wrong with traveling by bus.

I'm saying it's stupid to set up a trip that will consist of getting up in the morning, getting to a bus station, riding a bus all day, then getting from the bus station to someone's residence where you will sleep (that will probably take all day), going to sleep, then getting up the next day and doing the same thing all over again. Then doing it again, every day for 2 weeks.

The problem isn't the mode of transportation. It's the way you would spend all your time -- just dragging you butt from one place to another, and never actually being anyplace.

It takes time to get up, eat, gather your stuff, get yourself to the bus/train/airport, wait to get on your bus/train/plane, then ride the bus/train/plane, get off, get oriented, maybe get lost, find your way to wherever you'll be staying, drop your gear, clean up, eat, etc. The time adds up, and just moving yourself from one place to another can consume all day.

Sounds like my idea of hell on earth, but to each their own.

Goooooood luuuuck....

The other advantage of reducing your number of stops is that you wouldn't necessarily need to buy a rail pass, just buy point-to-point tickets for the stops that you'll be making. A group of point-to-point, 2nd class rail tickets can be QUITE a bit cheaper than a rail pass, especially in countries like Italy. Figure out your itinerary, then do the math on it.

Also, look into the discount airlines that are in Europe such as EasyJet, Vueling, Ryanair and others. You can sometimes fly from one city to another for a surprisingly low price.

My husband and I just returned from Europe, we had 3 weeks and it was barely enough to see Paris, Provence, Madrid & Barcelona. There were times we wished we had stayed longer & traveled less. You never know when the trains in France will go on strike which really will throw a monkey wrench in your plans if you are doing a lot of traveling. They were on strike twice in the 3 weeks we are there. We had never been to Europe before and for your own sanity and enjoyment slow down, go less places & see more.

OK, OK, OK! My husband and I talked it over last night and narrowed it down to 4 cities. He thinks this is very funny (what all you have been saying) b/c that's what he told me from the beginning. He's not anti-Europe (he lived in Nice for 2 1/2 months and loved it), he's just anti-flying.
Just wanted to say this is my first time ever in a chat room (is this a chat room?) and I've had so much fun! I wish I could meet all of you. My trip isn't until December, but I'll post pictures afterwards if you guys remember me. Thank you! :)

Sorry, one more question. What's an open jaw ticket?

Open-jaw is when you fly into one city and out of another. For example, on one trip, we flew into Madrid and out of Athens. You can search for these trips by using the "multi-city" option on airline websites.

Gald to see you've come to your senses.

4 cities in a couple of weeks sounds fine. You say you will be starting in Spain because of other factors; that's fine, there's more than 2 weeks of great things to see and do in Spain alone. With cheap intra-Europe flights or trains, you could combine Spain with either Portugal, France or Italy (pick one, not all) and have a great trip. It depends on exactly where in Spain you start -- Spain is actually a fairly large country. What are your constraints (e.g. "I have to be in X at some point for something")?

If your trip is in December, now is the right time to start getting the planning done. Don't wait until the fall to begin making at least some plans (getting all the arrangements done takes a lot of time). Traveling in December has advantages (it's the low season generally, so transatlantic airfares are low, although there will be busy periods due to the holidays; there should be fewer crowds at major attractions), but also has some disadvantages (the weather may be cold/rainy/snowy, but just as in the US exactly how much depends on where you go; some sites are closed more often; it can be less enjoyable to be outside due to weather; days are shorter; don't forget that you can run into holiday crowds there too).

My advice is to start watching the Rick show every chance you get, even if it's a show on a part of Europe you're not going to, you will still learn stuff and pick up tips. And if you know you're going to be in Spain, go buy Pick's 2008 Spain book now and start going over it. Don't balk at the price of a few books, they will save you so much money their cost will be repaid many, many times over in savings.

Also don't forget that the planning for your trip is part of the fun.

After re-reading your original post, I note that you're starting in Spain, and gave a list of other places you would like to go. We've already poo-pooed the idea of getting to all of them. However, you did include Paris. With 2 weeks, you could do a week in Spain (2 - 3 cities, depending on where you start), then do a week in France (which would get you Paris, which was on your original list).

Fly in to the city in Spain where your conference is, and fly out of Paris. I find it convenient to think of Spain as "Barcelona, and everything else" - that is, Barcelona (a great city, BTW) is kind of out of the way (in the NE corner of the country), while a bunch of other great stuff is more clustered together (Madrid, Seville, Granada, Toledo, etc. -- these are all pretty easy to move between; Barcelona isn't near these). If you're going to be in one of these other cities, then you can easily do a week between them, then catch a cheap flight to Paris, and do a week in and around there, with possible side-trips to the Loire Valley, Normandy, etc. On the other hand, if you have business in Barcelona, it may make more sense to catch a train to southern France and work your way north.

Time to get a map and start doing some mental exploration.

Jody, if your husband wants to get rid of you for awhile because you keep talking about going to Europe plan to stay 3-4 weeks. That way, you can get to a couple more countries that you would like to see. If this is your one and only chance - take it and make it worth the airline fee and trouble of planning such an extensive trip. Go, enjoy but don't rush it too much. Go for 4 weeks.!!!!!

Hi Jody. I've used Eurolines several times. The main problems are the frequency of service (only one or two buses per day for a given route; dozens with the train) and the level of service (traffic jam delays, rude drivers, you wouldn't believe some of my stories.)

If your destinations are very far from each other, consider flying with Ryanair, Easyjet, etc. I've flown London-Frankfurt and Frankfurt-Pisa for next to nothing. The website below can help you find these bargain flight providers:

www.whichbudget.com

If your destinations aren't too far apart, use the train; you likely won't need a railpass with 4 cities. Consider getting just regular old train tickets like many Europeans do when they travel. You can guestimate costs with Rick's time/cost map in the railpass section. You can check itineraries and sometimes get good prices here:

http://reiseauskunft.bahn.de/bin/query.exe/en

I agree with David's suggestion about getting Rick's books to start planing an itinerary. I usually get them from the library until I've made a more specific plan and then I buy the book(s) for the countries or cities that I need to take with me.

Jody, as one of the posters said, maybe you should look into a bus tour. This way, your trip, including hotels and travel are done for you. Some of your meals are included. Check out Rick Steves' tour but also check out www.cosmos.com My daughter and I did this 14 years ago and it was a good intro for her.

Jody, I'd respectfully disagree with the people discouraging you from seeing more than 4 cities. On our first 2-week trip to Europe we visited London, Rothenburg, Venice, Cinque Terre, Siena, and Rome -- as well as some sidetrips. Many on this site would say that that isn't enough time to absorb the culture. But guess where I got the idea for the itinerary -- a Rick Steves tour. And on Rick's travel planning CD it seems like he goes about 10 places in 3 weeks.

I think it's fine to talk about being a tourist versus a traveller if you have the opportunity to travel regularly. But if your life is limited by some of the factors you've talked about, I'd strike a balance and try to see the things you really want to. True, don't spend less that 3 days in London or Paris, but 2 days in other places is fine, or even 1, if you just want to see a particular landmark.

I regard my first trips to as "EUR 101: A Survey of Europe." Now I've gotten an overview and can spend more time in the areas I want.

On the practical side, Italy is cheap to travel in by train, and also check out some of the budget air travel, such as EasyJet. They still have some very reasonable intra-Europe flights that will save you loads of time.

Thank you, Lauren! I knew there had to be someone out there who visited more than 4 places at a time. What you said really makes sense--we'll see how it works out practically.

I can't stay for 4 weeks b/c of another factor I haven't mentioned--money. It's a miracle I can go for 2 weeks (actually 16 days). Also, I don't want to leave my kids for that long! :(

I understand completely. I would recommend that you do as much research ahead of time as you can. If you can check RS guidebooks out of your library, that would be a great way to start to pick what are the places you most want to visit.

Also, our first trip we bought a Railpass and realized afterward that it wasn't the best deal for us. I generally try to run the numbers all kinds of different ways to see what's the best balance of time and money. Also, a night train might be an idea -- save on hotel and get somewhere at the same time. It's easy to think you don't want to miss any scenery, but oftentimes from a train track the countryside may not look too different from home.

At any rate, do what works best for you and have a great time. If you have any other thoughts, feel free to send a personal message.