car vs train travel in december

Assuming price is a wash, which mode of travel would be more relaxing for everyone? Your posting already suggests some hesitation. And which mode would get you to where you need faster? I'm fairly sure on both counts that train travel would be preferable. Germany has a fantastic train network.

I can't speak for Hannover because I've never been, but taking the train to the other three cities is fun and very user friendly. The train stations are centrally located and easy to navigate. Unless there is somewhere off the beaten path you must go, I would suggest taking the train. I would also buy tickets and reserve seats as soon as you can (60 days before travel I believe) because Germans travel a lot by train during the holidays and some tickets might be hot ones. Also, it's worth spending a few extra dollars to travel by the high-speed ICE train if available.

Pricing for the group comes out pretty much the same train vs rental
car

I have to wonder where you are getting you rail prices. Don't use RailEurope prices or that handy-dandy map in Rick's books. Both will inflate the cost. Your itinerary does not look to me to be one where a railpass would be economical. Get your prices from this Bahn webpage.

In over 15 years of travel, I've never found a case where a car was anywhere near as economical as rail. Make sure you understand the size of the trunk on any car you consider renting, or you might find some luggage has to go on the backseat passengers' laps.

For longer trips, commit to a specific train and purchase ticket well in advance (92 days). Most tickets for long distance trains (ICE/IC/EC) start at 29€ for one person (48€ for 2, 67€ for 3, 86€ for 4) if you book early. It doesn't look like you have any shorter days, but if you do, Länder-Ticket (regional passes) for regional trains are inexpensive.

Provided you don't drive during an actual snowstorm, road conditions are usually fine in December. Maybe a bit foggy and wet, but if a winter storm hits, the road crews usually have the main roads cleared pretty quickly.

But I agree with the others, if your only plan is to move between large cities, going by train is a much better option. The only reason I could see to consider a car is if you planned to make stops at periperpheral destinations along the way. Also, if you were hoping for scenic drives, think again. The weather is usually very overcast in December and you have the fewest hours of daylight. Instead of those brilliant technicolor vistas of rural scenery that you see in travel videos (almost always filmed under summer atmospheric conditions), everything in the countryside looks sort of hazy and gray.

I have driven a few times in December and roads were always fine except one evening when we hit some snow. Is bit slippery so just decided to stop. Next morning they were fine. City to city...train... I am always going off the beaten path so car is usually my preference...and those atmospheric, cloudy days that Tom talks about make for some awesome photography...especially when the trees are covered in ice crystals:). I am a photographer...so those are the days I dream of.

Our pricing overview maps show full-fare, 2nd class ticket prices on the fastest trains between the two points shown, converted to dollars in January, 2016 at a rate of $1.10 and then rounded to the nearest $5. If you have to add up several points on the map to calculate a single train ride, then you can usually round down a bit. The map cannot account for various advance-purchase ticket discounts, child discounts, or regional-train group deals, although those offers are discussed at https://www.ricksteves.com/travel-tips/transportation/trains/germany-rail-passes.

You have mentioned 3 train rides but no airport connections, so I'm thinking you probably need to plan for 5 train rides. Currently, 5 days of train travel within a month on a German Rail Pass costs $204 per person for adults who travel in pairs. They often have fall/winter specials on this pass, thought the exact nature and timing of that is unpredictable.

I don't know whether your group includes kids but provisions for kids traveling free are different for passes (under 12 with any adult) vs. tickets (under 15 with parent or grandparent).

An earlier post said, "In over 15 years of travel, I've never found a case where a car was anywhere near as economical as rail."

In our case, I believe it's pretty cut and dry that a car is more economical for us, by far! It looks like a rail pass for just Germany plus one add'l country is $391 each for 10 days (and that includes the 20% discount). For 3 of us, that's almost $1200. A nice, upgraded car is going to be $350 for the 10 days, including a fee for drop-off in a different location.

We would like to be able to travel as the urge hits us while in Germany and I believe this is the best option for us.

As far as buying a pass vs. paying for each trip, I learned my lesson on my last trip to Europe. We didn't think we would use the train enough to warrant an unlimited pass, but ended up spending more than the pass would have cost us.

And if I'm missing something and am totally wrong about the cost of a train pass, I'd very much welcome that information. I'm currently looking at this site: http://www.eurail.com/eurail-passes/select-pass/two-country/benelux-germany

To each their own. Consensus is that Eurail pass is not the way to go if saving money is the object. Usually they are the most expensive way to travel. But people seem to like them because they won't have to figure out how the ticket machines work, how Laender tickets work, or how local transport networks operate, or don't want to plan ahead and buy train tickets on-line at big discounts. They don't seem to have that problem with airline tickets. But everyone is free to travel as they wish.

This Forum, formerly called the Help Line, exists as a resource to help people learn all these travel methods. Renting a car has a lot of unforeseen expenses. Insurance, high cost of fuel, need for an IDP, prevalence of robocam speed traps in Europe, ZTL's in Italy, little or no free parking, vignettes. And yes, when the number of people traveling together goes above 2, the travel cost with a car starts to go down, on a per person basis.

For December 10, the latest date for which tickets are currently available, there are 29-euro fares available on many trains for each of the three major legs you've mentioned. As Lee said, the price drops a bit when 2 or 3 people travel together. On the other hand, those prices can increase to about 2-1/2 times that amount if you buy at the last minute. So the question is: Are you in a position to buy those three major tickets as soon as they become available for your travel dates? If so, your car rental will be far more costly than advance-purchase (and non-changeable) train tickets.

We would like to be able to travel as the urge hits

That is one of the most popular ways to make your trip more expensive than it needs to be. Flexibility costs money.

In our case, I believe it's pretty cut and dry that a car is more
economical for us

Hard to argue with that statement considering you conveniently didn't show your work. But it's hard for me to believe you came to that conclusion. For at least the last six trips I've made to Germany (over 10 years), I've carefully calculated the cost of a car (rental cost plus fuel and tolls from ViaMichelin) vs using rail. For my rental cost, for the most part, I've used a rental broker highly recommended here (although not exclusively. I'm afraid he'll get suspicious because of all my requests for quotes, and I never come back and rent through him.) I've never found the cost of a car to be anywhere competitive with what I paid for public transportation, and I don't have to worry about collision damage, photo radar, ZTLs, etc).

As for the cost of a rail pass, Eurail is the consortium of European Railroads made to package and market rail passes; RailEurope is one of the resellers. The cost of a rail pass used to be fixed, but in recent years they have allowed individual resellers to take less profit and charge less. Check the price on RailEurope. Last I checked they were the same or a little lower than the price from Eurail (Rick uses RailEurope for his passes).

But don't use the cost of a rail pass as the alternative to driving. Rail Passes are nowhere near the most economical way to travel by public transportation. Over fifteen years ago, I bought my last rail pass. When I got home I figured that, using the trains I used, I just about broke even with the pass vs full fare tickets, but as I learned more about the system, I realized I could have saved more money with regional passes without significantly compromising my trip.

Since then, in 9 cases, I've done the math before my trip, and a rail pass has never come close to being cost effective. Example: on a recent trip, we were in Germany for 21 days and spent a total of $390 for all transportation (train, bus, local metro). The five most expensive days of my travel cost 228€, or $255.60 at today's exch rate. I could have bought a 5 day German Rail Twin Pass for $390 (coincidence), but it would have cost an extra $134, a third more, than what I paid. (Actually, on several of those travel days, I spent some time on buses and the Bayerische Oberlandbahn, which were covered by the Bayern-Ticket, but would not have been included with the rail pass, so I've understated the cost with a rail pass.)

So, if you are comparing the cost of rail to renting a car, make sure you use the most favorable rail costs.

For travel between large cities train is much better and usually more economical. And especially in winter even if the price of renting a car would be lower than train which is very unlikely. I would use a car only if I want to go through the countryside and stop in a lot of small towns and villages.

"Pricing for the group comes out pretty much the same train vs rental car..."

I doubt this as well. Rental cars sometimes come with hidden costs. What - I have to pay for parking at this hotel? Then there's the parking ticket wher you may have paid something but you didn't fully grasp the parking rules. A speeding ticket you first learn about once you've returned home, courtesy of a hidden radar gun. A $1,000 charge for a door ding - or perhaps a deductible you must pay.

Trains = no fees, surprises or penalties.

You can compare the predictable car costs to the "saver fares" Lee suggests:
"Most tickets for long distance trains (ICE/IC/EC) start at 29€ for one person (48€ for 2, 67€ for 3, 86€ for 4) if you book early."

I've used a lot of these tickets successfully. However, a lot depends on the "book early" part. To ensure the lowest prices you really need to buy these tickets - and commit to the specific trains and travel times - around 90 days in advance of your trip. Well, what if your trip is sooner than that? Or what if you just want some flexibility?

For fun I checked your Cologne - Nuremberg trip on Dec. 8 - more than two months out - for 2 adults. Standard fare on the fastest route (3.25 - 3.5 hours) is €230. But the saver fares available now (October 2) offer little savings. On the 6 departures from Cologne to Nuremberg between 6:55 am and 10:33 am, the average saver fare is €153 for two. And that's if you buy them today and commit to that travel date and a specific train.

So IMO you really should be looking at comparisons with the German Rail Pass as well. A second-class twin pass for two for 3 days in one month costs €287 at the DB Railways. No penalties, no tickets, no traffic jams or door dings, no potty stops needed. Ride any trains you like on those days. Make an additional journey the same day if you wish. You can buy this pass online or at most airport stations in Germany (not a bad idea so as to avoid any confusion about online purchase and any shipping problems.)

https://www.bahn.com/i/view/USA/en/prices/germany/german-rail-pass-flexi.shtml

I have become frustrated with people on this debate about cars versus trains, buses, etc. They can achieve the same result and meet different needs. We have mainly rented cars because we like to travel independently, some times to remote areas and do not wish to be constrained by schedules. However on our last trip we rented a car for touring before the tour, took an organized tour and after used trains to travel for the last week between major centres.

For those who focus purely on price I am reminded of the phrase. There are people who know the cost of everything and the value of nothing.

Do what you want and meets your needs. Have a great trip; whatever your decision it will be right for you.

And then there are the "tourist scams" involving pedestrian only zone violations, radar camera speeding violations and rental car damage penalties. Fortunately, it seems that these "scams" surface after you return to the States so they don't interrupt your holiday. The closest train "scam" related to violating rules seem to be failure to buy a ticket or to validate the purchased ticket. Take your pick.

On the other hand, forum post on train "scams" seem to be mostly attributed to pickpocket issues. On the other hand, car "scams" or concerns seem to be mostly related to loosing luggage from break-ins. Take your pick.

My pick is the train. Driving is work and I'm on holiday.

Agnes asked "...which...would be more relaxing...". Edgar allude to driving being work and this being a holiday. Those, imho, are the two main things to consider.

"I have become frustrated with people on this debate about cars versus trains, buses, etc."

I don't think you're alone. This one is frustrating for some because there's a decision to be made when the talk ends. Many people get frustrated with debates of all kinds. But for me frustration is a rare component of debate. I grew up on debates/arguments and I always think debates are interesting as long as they don't end up in a lot of name-calling and efforts to silence opposing opinions, etc. They are a good way to view others' values and thought patterns.

Does any of you have any bad experience with renting a car? Do they charge you extra when you return it? I have found a lot of really good deals on the internet I'm just sure if those deals cover everything.

anja: The problem with cars is not so much the up-front costs the surprises. I've rented cars several times in Europe and have never gotten an ugly surprise, but many have. Car rentals always mean written contracts and insurance concerns, just for starters - something train users don't have to deal with. It's not uncommon for renters to open their mail boxes once they're back home, only to find a major bill awaiting them. Tripadvisor has dozens of threads addressing questionable business practices by Hertz, Sixt, Budget and others, like this one on the Germany forum. Before you decide, it would be wise to read up on some of the concerns.

https://www.tripadvisor.com/ShowTopic-g187275-i116-k4618853-Rental_car_scam_by_hertz-Germany.html