Body scanners in Chicago

There is currently only one full body scanner at O'Hare, at the United Airlines terminal.

So I guess we all just go through the normal metal detectors then.

The body scanners are only supposed to be used for secondary screening. If chosen, you have the right to refuse and accept a pat-down instead. The TSO's may try to bully you into the machine but you have the right to say no.

This was taken from the TSA website:

Q. If a passenger does not wish to be screened using advanced imaging technology, do they have options?
A. This technology is optional to passengers in the U.S. Passengers who opt out of imaging technology screening will go through alternative screening, including same-gender pat downs. Passengers flying to the U.S. from international destinations should check with the country from which they are flying regarding that nation’s policies. For more information on use of advanced imaging technology in the U.S., visit TSA:Advanced Imaging Technology

I'm flying with US Airways so I guess it's a moot point if United is the only airline that has one.

Imho, body scanners are not to dissimilar from strip searches for improbable cause. It's an strip search, plan and simple. No different that if you were walking down the mall and a cop pulled you over for a strip search for no reason. A body scan would not have stopped the Christmas dude who tried to bring in explosives in his underwear. We have and are continuing to give up personal liberties in the name of security. Wait until some of these body searches turn up on the internet. Will you then want your 13 year old daughter or son to go through one?

There are more on the way. Over the next few years you can expect to see them much more frequently across the country. Personally, I don't see all the fuss, but like that people who do object can get a patdown. It's just that a patdown, to be as effective as the scanner, needs to get pretty "personal."

Bob: I fly out of ORD on United when it makes sense, and I’ve never seen the body scanner they’ve had in place since the March-ish timeframe. Most everyone will just go through the regular detectors as per usual. Just flew from there a couple of weeks back...nobody was scanned. Last international flight was on Swiss last fall…same thing (no secondary screening - didn't have scanner yet). My advice for the TSA person running the scanner, however, would be to enjoy the show! Then, maybe we can enjoy a cigarette together after the scan. :)

Happy travels.

The person reading the scan is in a separate room where he/she cannot see the person being scanned. If they see something suspicious they radio the personnel near the scanner and the passenger is taken for further screening. The person reading the scan is not allowed to leave their little room for any reason while any passenger that went through the scan is still in the area. The personnel near the scanner cannot see the scan, either, so it's actually a pretty impersonal process.

So, we couldn’t actually enjoy a cigarette together afterward since they can’t leave their private booth?

The body scanners are a lot more time consuming than the regular ones. I make sure I choose a non-body scanner line when flying out of DEN.

Mary - even if a scan could end up on the internet, how is anyone going to know who it is? I get a little tired of people putting down every security measure with the logic that a bomber/terrorist will always find a way to get around it. Using that logic, let's not have any security at all!

Body scanners don't bother me one bit. I have nothing to hide and we all have the same "equipment." And, just like looking at porn - after a while its impact fades. I imagine the body scanner staff get pretty numb to it after a while.

Mary, ANY search at an airport is a search without probable cause. X-Ray machines, pat downs, taking shoes off, TSA digging through luggage are all things that could not happen leagally if you were just walking down the street. But because you choose to fly, you give up your right not to be searched. The point being that the body scanners are just the latest technology to find something dangerous on your person. Since technology has made the list of what is dangerous much longer, it only makes sense for the scanners to keep up.

The idea that some dirty old TSA guy will be getting his jollies while 13 year old girls pass through is hysteria, not reality.

And Mary, a body scan WOULD have stopped the Christmas guy. That's the whole point. And the scans cannot be recorded in any way. They are instantly erased. Operators are not allowed to even take cellphones into the booth so that no images can be copied. If it is a concern for you, don't use it - just ask for a pat down if you are selected.

"body scanners are not to dissimilar from strip searches for improbable cause."

Actually, it is very different from walking around at the mall and being searched without probable cause.

You give implied consent to be searched when you buy an airline ticket. And you have the option to decline to be searched---and not board the plane.

I understand that Phoenix has body scanners now. I have no problem going through one. I have nothing to hide. I saw pictures of these scans, it looks more like an "Ghostly" appearance and outline of the body. It has to better than (as my son called it) "Very thorough" pat down at Heathrow.

Washington DC had one when we flew US Airways in June, but we were not chosen to go through it.

They don't bother me, I find them very interesting actually haha. If it makes me safer flying I am all for it, I have nothing to hide.

Sasha, you say intrusive questions are not going to be asked in the U.S. or Canada...well...I can't speak for Canada, but they are being asked in the U.S.

TSA now have people know as Behavioral Dectection Officers (BDO). Their job is to try to find terrorists who may be acting a certain way. One thing they do is ask questions to see how you respond. They also take notes.

While waiting in line awhile back I was approached by one of these "officers." The conversation went like this:

Her: Where are you going today?

I handed her my passport and boarding pass.

Her: Yes, but where is your final destination>

Me; My final air destination is on my boarding pass.

Her: Is this trip for business or pleasure?

Me: Why do you want to know?

Her: You're not being very cooperative.

Me: Why are you asking me questions that I legally do not have to answer? I have to submit myself and my belongings to a search to make sure I'm not carrying anything that will cause harm to the plane or any of my fellow passengers. And I cooperate with your organization so you can do the job easily. But I don't have to tell a representative of the government why I'm traveling within the United States.

She stared at me, I stared back.

After a few seconds, she handed me back my passport and boarding pass, said "Thank you" and moved on. (She knew that I did not have to answer her questions.)

A couple of the people standing nearby just looked at me and smiled.

Good points, Michael. I agree that TSA needs to do a better job of doing the job they are supposed be doing 8-)

As far as bodily cavities - I can see it now: BREAKING NEWS! TSA to hire 5,000 proctologists and ear, nose, and throat specialists!

Michael, it's the same kind of logic I see people using when they start talking about TSA officers asking you if you have any Muslim friends or your party affiliations. Has anyone here actually been asked any of these questions by a TSA officer? I doubt it. Things are getting blown out of proportion.

Steve, I think you're onto something here. The sedatives you'd have to get for a pre-flight security endoscopy or colonoscopy would help you sleep through the flight like a baby, too!

Frank II: You mean you didn’t appreciate government agents essentially asking for…”Your papers, please!?"

Steve: Let's hope it doesn't get to that point, but TSA's budget is massive...who knows? Anna just identified another efficiency for the new health care system, though…early detection and diagnosis of disease right there at security before your flight.

The major question is how much of your rights are you willing to give up just to be able to fly?

Many feel the body scanner is fine. (I don't.)

Are you willing to answer any question the TSO asks? Where are you going? Why? Who are you visiting? What are their names? What political party do they belong to? What political party do you belong to? How much money do you make? Do you have any friends who are Muslims?

If an blue uniformed agent stopped you while waiting online to go through security and asked to see your ID and then asked these questions, would you answer? If they insisted saying it makes flying safer, would you answer?

What if it was a domestic flight?

Do you really trust TSA when they say they respect your privacy regarding the body scanners or that it is safe regarding radiation.

When the machines were first deployed, TSA said there was absolutely no way any of the images could be saved and they were wiped out immediately once the next person entered.

Then a reporter got hold of an operations manual for the machine and it showed how to turn on that function for training purposes.

Then TSA admitted that yes, images could be saved...but their people wouldn't turn it on while using the machine. All their people are honest and professional.

Yea, right. Ugh, what about all those TSO's who have been arrested for stealing from passengers? Or all those recruits you got from advertising on pizza boxes? Cream of the crop, are they?

Now, as to what questions I answer....what's on my ID and boarding pass...and then anything related to what I may be carrying. Otherwise, I refuse to answer. The TSA's job is to make sure I don't take anything on board that could be detrimental to the flight. As to the purpose of my trip, who I'm seeing, or anything else, they have no legal right to ask nor am I legally obligated to tell them.

"Are you willing to answer any question the TSO asks? Where are you going? Why? Who are you visiting? What are their names? What political party do they belong to? What political party do you belong to? How much money do you make? Do you have any friends who are Muslims?"

I've never had a TSO ask these questions and I don't think they are going to start - well, maybe the "Where are you going?" I consider that kind of question a way to confirm that you are the same person as the name on the ticket.

I guess it comes down to individual decisions regarding how much privacy you are willing to give up in order to fly. Like it or not, the events of 9/11 forced us to make many changes.

"Are you willing to answer any question the TSO asks? Where are you going? Why? Who are you visiting? What are their names? What political party do they belong to? What political party do you belong to? How much money do you make? Do you have any friends who are Muslims?"

That's an alarmist and very unrealistic question. It ain't going to happen, certainly not in the US or Canada.

TSA personnel don't even ask questions, in my experience. They look at your stuff, give directions, and tell you they are going to take a closer look at what's in the bag. No questions.

The most intrusive searches I've undergone were in Europe---full-on patdown searches, intensive questioning by a Dutch security officer before boarding a NW flight back to the US. That was one week before 9/11 and they knew something was coming. Even then, there were NO political or religious questions---it was all "where have you BEEN" (not where are you going); where have your bags been? What about your hair dryer? Ever send it out for repair? Do you have a radio with you? Etc. All very focused on the issue at hand.

Frank II - I do get your point and agree that genuine security measures can cross a line. It's just that I don't think a scanner is any worse than a pat down. In fact, it's faaar less intrusive if the pat down is thorough. And it's really no more intrusive than someone going through all of your personal belongings in your suitcase - sometimes out of your sight (checked bags). They'll even cut locks off if they need to.

And actually, many of the questions you hypothesize can and are asked by border agents coming and going - both of American citizens and visitors.

Finally - to those concerned about the images being saved. Assuming (probably correctly) that there is a way someone could save them - what could they really do with them? The image isn't clear enough to really recognize anyone and the worker in a separate room would have no way of knowing who was passing through. So what harm would really come of it even if it happened?

Frank II has a point, and I’ll go a step further (since Douglas alluded to border control/immigration) and will suggest that Arizona’s new legislation is exactly how a society can incrementally start to lose civil rights and civil liberties, even with the support of a majority of unwitting citizenry right while it’s happening. Are the authorities going to ask every German tourist for their passport when their bus driver gets pulled over for speeding on the way over to visit the Grand Canyon? What about the Latino born in Tucson who might be hanging out on a street corner looking for day jobs…is it okay to ask him for some sort of papers or ID for no reason other than he could be here illegally because of his ethnicity? A lot of people might say yes, because this is happening to people on the margins and not to them. Well, it can happen to them. And we have a former governor running again for governor here who wants the same law Arizona has, so it’s a slippery slope that gets slick real fast. It’s not alarmist or unrealistic to think that our civil rights and civil liberties will continue to erode vis-à-vis the rules/restrictions put in place by the federal government specific to commercial aviation and the general public. I simply don’t understand the argument that says it's okay to have body scanners because they make flying safer (arguable to be sure)…you don’t have to go through them (for now) or you don’t have to fly. One shouldn’t have to make the choice. Where does it end when the citizenry is convinced it’s okay to do things under the guise of safety/security it wouldn’t otherwise approve of (invading Iraq, for example)?

Michael - I get your point - to a point. But when talking about airline security, what do you suggest as an alternative? The federal government, in instituting these security measures, is not reacting to a vague or "what-if" situation. Planes HAVE been blown up (Locherbie [sp?], planes HAVE been flown into buildings (9/11), individuals HAVE attempted to blow up more planes (Christmas and the shoe bomber).

You either attempt to prevent it from ever happening again, or you might as well not bother at all. I don't see any reasonable half-measures. No one likes the situation except those making money from it, but it is a reality that can't be ignored.

I really hate the "well, if this is allowed, what's next??" argument. More often than not, it's an alarmist tactic full of fairly unrealistic scenarios. It reminds me of anti-gay-marriage activists suggesting that gay marragine means we're just a step away from legalized incest and bestiality.

I personally have no problem with body scans at an airport. As others have described, the agent who reviews your scan cannot see you and the agent who is with you during the scan cannot see its results. Your face is not clearly identifiable. Who cares?

Like it or not, you have to give up personal information in a lot of cases these days. All of that information (SSN, passport number, credit cards, family names, credit score, fingerprints, etc etc.) could potentially be misused by the personnel that collects it, but if you want to travel, drive a car, buy a house, get married, etc., you will have to give people your personal information. As much right as you have to keep all of that to yourself, the other party has a right to refuse service to you if you do.

You should be more worried about all the information you willingly give away to places like Google and Facebook than what some TSA staffer sees under you clothes.

Fair enough, Steve, but the reality is that we’ve implemented a significant number of expensive, inconvenient, intrusive, and ineffective security measures that are easily thwarted by TSA itself when they do their own testing…something like a 50% failure rate at LAX when attempting to get mock bombs and weapons on board, for example. That’s a problem secondary screening with a body scanner cannot resolve. What is it those NRA people always say…we need to enforce the rules/laws we already have in place instead of creating new ones? And the body scanner wouldn’t detect a bomber who has stuck plastique up his cavity or down his throat. Richard Reid and Umar Farouk Abdulmutallab were dumb as a couple of boxes of rocks, thank God, but determined, intelligent, sophisticated, and well-funded people, such as the 9/11 bunch, will always find ways to bypass even the best security undetected. When they fail, they’ll try again. In the meantime, I’d rather not easily give up my rights in the name of an illusion of security.

Anna: I totally agree with you on your first point, but I fail to see how that applies here.

I won’t argue about it when I’m at the airport…I want to board the plane, but I will continue to let my elected officials know about my positions on these important issues. And my offer to enjoy a cigarette with the TSA scanner after the show still stands (if he can get out of his private booth).
:)

FrankII--you know that the TSA BDO's don't have any enforcement powers.

The questions she asked---what is your final destination, and what is the purpose of your travel----are the same ones asked of almost everyone by customs and immigration officials. I think it has been pretty well determined that those questions do not violate anyone's civil liberties. Or do you think they do?

As for asking to see you passport/ID and boarding pass, you would have to show them to a TSA official when you got to the front of the security line anyway. What is so objectinable about being asked to see them while you are waiting in line?

Notably, she did NOT ask anything about your religion, yor politics, or your friends and associates, which is the fear you originally expressed.

On my last flight from Heathrow, I and my traveling companion were pulled aside after security and taken down to have a body scan. If there is someone that gets a kick out of seeing the image of a middle aged woman, so be it. We both found it interesting. As far as being rude to a TSA person who is doing his or her job, by being arrogant and not answering reasonable questions, I would never dream of it. They are simple questions, are not written down, are not researched, and are really meaningless other than one's reaction to the questions. Whether one thinks their tactics will actually protect us, at least they are making an attempt. I will continue to treat TSA workers with respect as I appreciate their efforts and make every effort to be kind and respectful to everyone. If you really think your rights are being compromised, you can not fly, get your own private flight or boat to Europe. I want them to have as much information as possible and I want them to keep pushing buttons. And I want a more civil world, which begins how we each treat one another each and every moment, but that's a different blogg.

For those who don't care what the government does or asks at airports because they are protecting you from "terryrists," then you have that right to cooperate as much as you want.

Just as I have the right to protect my Constitutional Rights. The funny thing is...when I refused to answer any questions, no one threatened me with arrest. Why? Because I was within my rights. I didn't have to answer any of her questions that had nothing to do with what I was carrying on board. (I wasn't even chosen for secondary.)

BTW--did you know, when coming through U.S. Immigration, if you can prove you are a U.S. citizen, you don't have to answer any questions as to the reason for your trip because they can't legally prevent you from entering the country. Now, if you don't cooperate, they can start a file on you, delay you, and make your life miserable while going through customs. But legally, you can remain silent.

Remember, Immigration and Customs officers are federal law enforcement officers with powers to enforce the law. TSO's are not. They have no law enforcement powers whatsoever. So why should I play their little power trip game?

When they stick to what they are mandated to do, I cooperate 100% and try to make their job easier. But when they cross that line, I stop cooperating.

But this has nothing to do with European travel so I guess we should get back to what this board is about.

I'm cursious what constitutional right you believe she violated by asking you those particular questions.

Wasn't she just doing the job she was "mandated to do" as a BDO? Why give her such a hard time? Did you think she was playing some kind of power game?

Since I have to go thru the "pat down screening" all the time (medical implants), I guess I won't be able to be seen by the body screeners after all. Oh, well. While I would not present ID to a law enforcement officer in Arizona without them having probable cause that they explain to me first, I do, and continue to, cooperate with the TSA folks when I fly regularly so as not to get on someone's sh.. list. I have never been asked any questions that I considered inappropriate. Happy travels all.

I think I'm more freaked by being on a plane while it explodes than having my body scanned, or being asked a question about my destination, but then again, I'm silly that way.

The goal of the terrorist is not to kill people. The goal of the terrorist is to destroy our way of life.

The new TSA director has said his next main priority is public transit. Are you willing to add an extra hour to your subway or ferry trip because you need to go through security to get on board? Are you willing to go through the same security they have at the airport, just to ride a subway a few blocks? Let's face it, sink a ferry, blow up a packed subway train, you can kill more people than on an airliner.

To date, the body scanners have not found one terrorist trying to smuggle anything on board. However, every suspected terrorist caught in the last few years, except those who got through airport security and were able to get on board an aircraft, have been found due to good police work.

But, I see I'm in the minority here. So, to make others happy, I'll come around. In fact, I have an idea that will practically reduce the chance of any terrorist getting aboard anything:

Anyone who wants to fly, take a train, ferry, bus, or even car, has to submit themselves to background checks and carry proof that they've done this? That way all the police or TSA or whomever is wearing a uniform, or a dark trench coat, has to do is say "your papers." Those without them, are immediately detained for further questioning.

The terrorists want to instill fear into us. They want to destroy our ideas of freedom. From what I'm hearing here.....they're winning.

I'm so relieved to know that terrorists don't want to kill people. I don't know where I got the idea that they did.

If anyone is trying to instill fear in anyone else it's anti-government ultra-libertarian conspiracy theorists that see any government interference as Big Brother watching you and see these secret agents who want to see "your papers" around every corner.

If anyone is trying to instill fear in anyone else it's anti-government ultra-libertarian conspiracy theorists that see any government interference as Big Brother watching you and see these secret agents who want to see "your papers" around every corner.

I give you two responses: The Patriot Act and the governmental ruling that allows them to eavesdrop on phone calls and intercept e-mail messages without court order. (It wasn't Congress or the courts who decided this, just some committee of appointed officials.)

I'm not anti-government. I'm just wary of the way TSA operates.

Nor am I Libertarian, Democrat or Republican. I'm an independent American who would like the government to protect me from harm while still affording me my Constitutional Rights--especially those under the fourth and ninth amendments.

I'm guessing the people attacking me here are not frequent fliers. I am. And I can tell you that there is inconsistency as to which rules are followed at different airports. The TSO's seem to be able to do as they please--including levying fines if you they find something you're not supposed to have--even if it was an honest mistake. It's totally up to their own discretion.

If none of this concerns you, that's fine. It's your right

Civil rights and liberties aren’t typically lost overnight. They’re degraded incrementally over time, often with support of the people whose very rights are being trampled (in order to keep them safe and free, of course). Just ask a WWII era German or Pole. Do you really think it is okay for the government to review your library or internet records without probable cause? Is it okay for FBI agents to fish for criminal activity by spying on an Islamic worship service? Is it okay for government agents to demand papers for proof of citizenship when all you did wrong was fail to signal while making a turn? Is it really okay for agents to video strip search citizens at the airport when other, less intrusive measures work just as well or better? And is it really okay for government agents to demand citizens doing nothing but vacationing to inform them why they're travelling…it’s none of their freaking business! Sorry, but I prefer checks and balances to faith and trust that our officials won’t abuse their powers. As for terrorists just simply wanting to kill people, that demonstrates a real bit of ignorance with respect to understanding their motivations. Terrorists have political agendas, and that’s why they do what they do. No terrorist wants to kill you simply because they hate you, hate your freedom, hate your way of life, or hate your religion. That’s a fact. It might serve us well to try and understand what motivates our "enemies". Our government has a right, duty, and obligation to maintain safe air travel, but they don’t have the right to trample due process, 4th Amendment, or any of the other rights we enjoy as citizens.

Wait, TSA can fine you for not following their rules that you failed to read?? Anyway, Frank, I hope you can relax and not take everything so personally. Things aren't as dramatic as they seem.

I will leave you with a quote made over 200 years ago by Benjamin Franklin:

“Any society that will give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both”

When will we learn?

This is a strip-search, period. It makes no difference that the technology allows it to be done on an industrial scale, it's a violation of privacy that ultimately has ,at best, no effect on safety. At worst, it exposes frequent fliers to elevated doses of x-ray radiation which may cause more deaths by cancer than the terrorists could ever kill with an airplane.

Body-cavities are not revealed, thus making this simply an exercise in power-mongering voyeurism.

You MUST opt-out of these intrusive searches, and maybe be wanded/patted by a same-sex guard. I did this at SFO a few months ago, which gave me the opportunity to officially express my displeasure - the guard wrote down the reason for my opting-out for their official records (it's a strip-search, I said). I suggest more people do this.

Plus - do you want your kids showing up to Beavis & Butthead in the back room looking like this:

http://www.rupture.co.uk/Terminal%204.html

Send you wives and daughters through. It improves the moral of TSA!

I'm so relieved to know that terrorists don't want to kill people. I don't know where I got the idea that they did.

It appears at a minimum that they have succeeded in making some travelers paranoid.

I once had a job were I saw lots of nude bodies (don't ask). I can tell you that the ones who stand out are the ones with the perfect bodies, and they're far and few between. So that being said, body scanners shouldn't bother you, unless of course you're that rare perfect body, then I would imagine the person doing the scanning will give you a second glance.

The Behavior Detection Officers are on fishing expeditions. They have limited training, the method has been dismissed as folly but the TSA continues to use it.

I say nothing to a TSO except an occasional hello / good morning to the document checker. But I often skip that since matching my ID to my boarding pass does absolutely nothing for security.

I refuse the backscatter machines and opt for a pat-down every single time. (Except in the UK where you can't - no idea what happens if you physically can't raise your arms then.) I don't need the extra radition, I'll already get more than I want from the flight. (Proponents argue the x-ray is so low dose as to be meaningless. Critics argue that low dose on the body is fine but it's absorbed entirely by the skin and not the body, raising the risk.)