Bahn.com or Bahn.de, versus Separate Tickets

Sorry for the typo; I've corrected it, I think!

It would help to provide feedback on the specific itinerary if you noted the proposed
date of travel.

Apart from that, depending on your date of travel, it may be that tickets are not on
sale yet, in which case DB may show the trains but may not let you purchase a ticket.

I cannot be 100% sure, but there may be some lack of cross-posting of trains between
Trenitalia and SNCF sites.

Similar to plane travel, if you book 2 separate tickets and you miss the second train,
you're subject to the cancellation and rebooking policies of the second transport
company. It will also depend on the fare class of the ticket you purchase.

Hi Jane,

Thanks for the question. I will try to provide some insight into my past experiences.

If I understand correctly, your concern is booking though Bahn rather than through Trenitalia due to the departure city? I have booked through Bahn when travelling from Switzerland before, so I do not think there is an issue, so book it!

In this case, all of your ticket and confirmation are on the same itinerary and connected in case an issue arises. Bottom line, I would to simply book through bahn.de. As for the difference between bahn.de and bahn.com, it is simply the interface with which you are initially presented. Hope this helps!

I'm trying to get from Venice to Paris later this year, preferably by train.

"Later this year" is too general for anyone to be of any help. What is the exact travel date?

The best place to book this wouild be with Trenitalia, as they cover the whole route. Venice to Milano, then Milano to Paris. But tell us when you want to travel so we can help you better.

I went to Bahn.de and I looked at a random day in May (8th) and saw what i think you are looking at 08:18 FR9716 from Venice to Milan and after a 38-minute transfer, TGV9246 from Milan to Paris arriving at 19:14 for 86.90 euro so I guess a bit more then 90 euro with seat assignments. The Bahn site is easy to use, the train is there, the price is pretty fair. Not sure why I wouldn't book it on the Bahn site if the other sites are confusing or splitting it into two tickets?

The change at Milan route (Venice depart 0800, Paris arrive 1900) runs on Saturday and Sunday only.

On Monday to Friday that route runs 2 hours later, from Milan.

To my mind, if you did it as Trenitalia all the way on their Frecc trains there is a daily service (change at Milano Centrale, as opposed to Milano Porta Garibaldi for the TGV) where you leave Venice at 1248, and arrive at Paris at 2236.

By all accounts Milano Centrale is one of the great stations of Europe, whereas Porta Garibaldi is a more functional station.

Also the Frecc trains from Venice mainly (entirely?) go to Milan Central, you would need to change to get to Garibaldi normally, introducing another risk factor.

The whole journey can be booked on Trenitalia, where you can choose different classes for each leg (Standard, Premium or Business). Many people consider the Frecc trains to be better quality than the TGV's, especially in the premium and executive classes.

I would rather book a journey like that as a whole (be it with DB or Trenitalia) rather than in two disconnected parts (Trenitalia and SNCF) in case of any problems on the first part of the journey leading to a severed connection in Milan (or Turin).

I do appreciate that the Frecc. service would miss dinner in Paris, but then in executive class you dine on the train.

Since Beaune is your ultimate destination, why not stopover in Lyon rather than Paris? There are frequent TER trains from Lyon Part Dieu to Beaune, unfortunately the last one is before your arrival in Lyon on the direct Freccia train from Milan, but just as easy to overnight there rather than Paris.

Thanks for your feedback, everyone. I appreciate your suggestions.

The day of travel will almost certainly be Saturday, May 23. I have checked routes so many times, using up to four different platforms, that I was getting more confused by the minute. I do see that some of you have used bahn.de successfully; thank you.

Part of what is confusing me, is different available trains being shown on different websites. It is possible, or even likely, that I'm checking too far out, but I'd like to get this taken care of as soon as possible.

I will check Trenitalia again, as well as SNCF and bahn.de. I have found two different routes that only require one change: Venice-Milan-Paris, and Venice-Torino-Paris. There are others that require two or more changes, as well.

Thanks for your help. I think I'll set this aside for a day or so (Hah! fat chance!) and come back to it when my head is clear and I have nothing else to do. (Hah! again.)

I just checked my notes, and reminded myself that the main reason for my question was the two legs of the most attractive itinerary are on different providers: Venice to Turin on Trenitalia, and Turin to Paris on the TGV, with an hour and a half between trains. I will probably just book the trip on bahn.de, but will ruminate on it a bit first. My own inclination is to get two separate tickets, avoiding going through a third party, but if bahn.de is a reliable provider, that would definitely be easier.

Thanks again to all who responded.

According to the Man in Seat 61 (and checks on random dates next month confirm it) you can't book SNCF connections on Trenitalia, or the Trenitalia connection (the Venice to Milan/Turin leg) on SNCF.- https://www.seat61.com/trains-and-routes/paris-to-milan-by-train.htm#How_to_buy_tickets

However on Trenitalia you can book the through journey on the longer route via Switzerland.

My suspicion of why trainline books you on the TGV via Turin is that it is a same station change, as opposed to having to change stations in Milan, which they may not be able to do on a through ticket.

Trainline are quoting me £84.68 for a through ticket (which would be just about €97 at the current exchange rate, DB are charging €92.90, so Trainline are charging a roughly €4 to 5 upcharge, for the same service. DB are German railways, so are cast iron reliable as far as I am concerned.

As far as I can see DB offer you either Venice- Turin, Turin to Paris with a 100 minute connection at Turin, or a Venice- Milan, Milan to Turin, Turin to Paris (to avoid the Milan station change) with 47 and 35 minute connections respectively at Milan Central and Turin.

To me the fewer connections the better, in 100 minutes you should have time for lunch or maybe a quick bit of sightseeing in Turin.

Given a straight choice, I would book on DB rather than the trainline. I certainly wouldn't want to book it as two standalone tickets (Trenitalia and SNCF), the man in seat 61 confirms that to do so means you have lost the protection of connections. (scroll down to 'Passenger Rights' on the above page.)

you can do Milano to Paris on Trenitalia. Both railways run trains on that route. However the SNCF trains are no permitted to take the high speed line between Milano and Torino, hence the planner suggests you change in the latter.

Regarding booking: The thing to be aware is that there are multiple sources of train information.

At the lowest level there is the actual train timetable. Train companies need to reserve a path with the infrastructure manager, and this then enters it in the system. This is than all updated in a central, Europe wide train timetable, and that is where Bahn.com (and others) get there information on what trains will run when from.

But a train can be in the timetable, but not bookable. The reason is that Italy and France use IRT tickets, whereas Germany uses NRT tickets. IRT tickets ("Integrated Resevation Tickets") cannot be sold until the seat inventory is loaded in the system as well.

En how the booking systems deals with "train is in the timetable, but seat inventory appears empty" varies.

DB will show the train, but then throw up a weird error. SNCF will not show the train at all. At least Trenitalia will show "temporarily not available"...

Added complication is that the French Railways are in a cold war with all other railways at the moment. So I would either travel entirely on Trenitalia, or just fly...

I believe the Venice Simplon-Orient-Express runs to Paris and I suspect its easy to book.

two legs of the most attractive itinerary are on different providers: Venice to Turin on Trenitalia, and Turin to Paris on the TGV,

since 2021, Trenitalia also runs on the route between Turin and Paris. So you can book the Frecciarossa instead of SNCF if you want (if the schedule is to your liking )

WengenK, thank you for that clarification. That explains why the bahn.de site suddenly popped up an error message!

Mr É, what a great suggestion! Gee, what fun that would be! So if I cash in our retirement accounts, not only would we be able to afford 2 seats on the Simplon-Orient-Express, we'd be eligible for having Medicaid pay for our nursing home!

I did actually go to the website....

Kim, thank you. I'll check that again. And going through Turin is not a requirement - but that putative route looked the simplest, with the best departure and arrival times.

I do see a Trenitalia route with two changes, one in Milan and one in Basel, that leaves about an hour earlier from Venice, but arrives in Paris in the evening.

And that one goes through Dijon. As someone else suggested (not on this thread,) we can get off in Dijon and then take the train to Beaune from there, bypassing Paris altogether! Which would mean booking another night in Beaune, or in Venice...

I'm getting a headache.