Are flights not full?

Our flight from SFO to Heathrow in May looked full. On our flight from Heathrow to SFO a week ago looked full. Can’t tell you what first class looked like because I always turn right upon boarding. :-)

And I was not looking at the seat map, I was on the plane looking forward thru business class and backward toward economy before they pull the curtains.

My flight from Amsterdam to Philadelphia was 100 percent full 11 days ago.

My November flight round trip to Venice that I bought months ago when it was cheap is still basically empty --- I assume people are waiting to purchase until prices come down? We fly to Italy in fall and winter a lot and I've never seen the seat map look like this.

We did RS Heart of Ireland and Heart of Scotland back-to-back last month and were on 6 different flights. (Dulles to Heathrow then on to Shannon, Dublin back to Heathrow then on to Inverness, Edinburgh to - you guessed it, Heathrow for the THIRD time in one trip - then back to Dulles. All those flights were full or close to it.

I flew Paris to Atlanta on Delta on May 30 (a Thursday), and there were tons of empty seats. I was surprised because all of my flights lately either way have been packed.

It was nice, I switched to a window seat and had a little two-seat section all to myself. The poor girl's Premium Select or whatever it's called. I have never had a transatlantic flight pass so quickly!! Heavenly.

How can you tell that it is less than 50% full? If you are looking at the seat map, that doesn’t mean much.

On my flight a couple weeks ago, it appeared there were many empty seats a week before departure. The flight was completely full.

With certain airlines and certain fare classes you do not get to choose your seat in advance. So there may be tickets sold but no seats selected.

Can't speak for Europe but recent experience for me shows some flights not full for other international destinations.

My wife flew down to the US from Canada last week and her flight was only about 1/3 full. And that is after Air Canada cut flights to our airport by half this year due to low demand.
I am heading out to Japan in two days and business class is only 75% full at this point. I went to Japan a few months ago and, for the first time in several years, I saw empty seats in premium economy and in economy as I did my walks around the plane during that trip. On both the outbound and return trips.
Subjectively, it seems as if demand is a bit softer than one would expect during the summer but my experience is very small sample.

Like Laura said. Seat map is meaningless as it only shows people who paid extra to choose seats. I know that groups cannot choose seats in advance, but only get assigned on check in at the airport desk.

Good to know about seat maps! I have always worried a bit that my flight will be cancelled if so empty AND always hoped that I could stretch out on all those empty seats in the back of the plane. Now my brain will be freed up to worry and hope about other things!

Also May 30th, Aer Lingus Minneapolis to Dublin was 40% empty, business class was half full. I had the Avios for business class but didn’t try to request business class via email the week before (that’s the AL method, can’t upgrade online, or even choose seats online). Interesting they didn’t send an email offering bidding for upgrades, or lower the price to fill the plane.

I was noting mostly business class on airlines that allow you to choose seats when booking. Flights were empty.

I flew Dusseldorf to London a few days ago and the plane wasn't even half full. Biz class held 16. There were three of us.
Economy was less than half full.

My biz class flight in six weeks is less than a third full. This is on an airline that lets you choose your seat when booking.

As I fly across the Atlantic a few times a year, I can't remember the last time I saw more than a couple of empty seats in biz. When I flew over in April, I got my tickets just a few weeks before and there were only a few empty seats to choose from.

There is plenty of evidence that fewer people are travelling from Europe to the US at the moment - just google US tourist numbers for evidence. On top of that there has probably been some impact from the Iran war in discouraging some trips from the US to Europe. In the last week or two the numbers travelling will have been boosted by those off to the World Cup, although even there those numbers are less than might have at one time been expected.

If your business class flight is on a US carrier, it’s probably going to be full. Will it be full with people that paid what the airline wanted? That’s a different issue.

But they’re a couple of things that happen on a lot of these airlines. Lots of them will offer frequent fliers , etc. a chance to upgrade. Or have upgrade certificates that don’t get applied to the last minute because the airline wants to make money. I’m flying Atlanta to Anchorage later this week. It’s an international plane and as a result, my upgrade certificate has not yet cleared. It will clear 24 hours in advance I think because there’s still a lot of empty seats, but Delta has hope that they’re going to sell that ticket.

And then the airline employees will get upgraded. One of the benefits of flying for some US carriers is when you are flying non-rev you can, if there are seats available, get that business class seat. Actually, if you want to watch some frequent flyers who don’t have upgrade options act like toddlers wait until they see that the flight attendant who is flying to Europe on vacation got an upgrade and they have to sit in the seat they paid for.

I do think business travel is soft right now. Delta recently sent me probably the best deal I’ve seen in a long time for mileage tickets in business class to Europe. I actually have one booked. I just haven’t decided if I dare take the trip, but I’m tempted.

For coach I do think a lot of people are buying the basic economy seats. They’re saving a couple hundred dollars and they’re just getting their seat at the gate.

Last August, our flight home from Iceland had 18 entirely empty rows. I was stunned that the flight even took off, and the flight attendants were saying the same thing. It was great though as as soon as I noticed, I grabbed what I wanted and left my husband to have the row to himself and I went a row behind and had it entirely to myself. Great for the long flight back to Seattle!

Then in March our flights both to and from Iceland were nearly full. Makes no sense with time of year, but it shows that you just never know.

Not sure why the FAs were "stunned" that a flight with 18 empty rows took off? After all if it didn't all the people waiting on that plane back to Iceland were just stuck!

That's why in spite of fears its VERY unlikely a plane will get cancelled if it's not sold out. That piece of equipment is needed in the destination. Cancelling one flight often has a LONG list of follow-on effects and most airlines don't want that.

Flight back to US just now, 25% empty.

Perceptions are interesting. You wont know until you see the numbers in about 4 months. The estimate I saw is that tourism from Europe to the US is down about 7%. I dont know how the World Cup skews the numbers.

Economy doesnt get seats until travel day? I am sure there are some, but I am not aware of an airline that wont sell you a seat in economy on an international flight when you book (I have economy flights in July on American and Lufthansa and Iberia ... I think that's right). All seats booked.

And, for economy at least, prices are good. Budapest to NYC in mid July can still be had for $700 RT. How else could you be entertained for 12 hours for $350?

FrankII I buy about 60 days out as well. It works fine but thats a different discussion.

When we flew back from Greece in February, Economy was only ~50% full and First and Business Class were stuffed. A seat mate who later moved to her own row said people were hesitant to come to the US. We spread out and definitely had a good flight. Curiously, our domestic flights from the US and back were also not full.

I think that since then airlines have consolidated flights and eliminated those from small airports.

Travel news reports suggest that people are still traveling in greater numbers, and from the questions on this forum it seems that there are a lot of first-time travelers to Europe.

My son just flew and he reported a non full flight. https://www.visualcapitalist.com/cp/how-european-travel-to-the-u-s-has-changed-since-2019/ This link shows trends over several years. This year airlines were expecting a rebound after last year’s decline (fueled by FIFA) but the bookings were soft— yet another small decline. But the summer isn’t over and there is more travel to be had. Fuel prices — knock on wood— should be coming down.

Happy travels!

Economy doesnt get seats until travel day? I am sure there are some, but I am not aware of an airline that wont sell you a seat in economy on an international flight when you book (I have economy flights in July on American and Lufthansa and Iberia .

Delta with Basic Economy will sometimes allow you to pay for a seat in advance and sometimes won't. Seems to depend on how the flight is selling but on international it seems that they don't offer the "seat for sale" option a lot (probably trying to get people to pay more for the included seat selection) It's clearly advertised as seating assigned at gate or check-in however.

Carol--I was just saying what the flight attendants were saying to me. Btw, we had one flight cancelled because it was not full, and it was on Iceland Air flying from SEA to KEF. They cancelled it the same day, and then put everyone on an earlier flight that same day. So it does happen.

Carol, sometimes they get crafty with the seats. One of my up coming flights BASIC said I would have to buy my seat but didn't mention that I can chose not to and get assigned one for free. I had to go through thr whole process to find out the seats were almost $125. Well, the next catagory up came with free "select" seats and the next catagory up was less about $100 more. No brainer, I canceled out and started over. Got to the seat selection page and the free "select" seats were center seats only. The others were a bit more than the savings. Canceled out and booked Basic.

As for Franks observation. I agree with him that if 60 days prior half the seats are still open, the plane wont be crowded. Just noy that many folks taking pot luck on seats.

I don't agree that if the seats are empty they will remain empty.

I have gotten on flights where the seat map showed it was wide open but the airline was BEGGING for volunteers due to an oversold situation. I have gotten on planes where EVERY seat was shown as filled and wound up with an entire row to myself.

Seat maps are just lousy indicators of sold tickets IMHO

I dont think anyone said they would remain empty ... but okay. Frank you have a job now, a trip report on the flight in July. I will be the first to confess error of judgment if that's tge case. And maybe we learn something.

We’re flying United Premium Plus between O’Hare and Zurich in September. Outbound flight shows 12 of 24 seats in the section sold. Return flight shows eight of 24 sold. I would think most people booking premium tickets would be picking seats at purchase, as there’s no extra fee with United.

Frank you have a job now, a trip report on the flight in July

Flight? Try flights. I have two flights across the pond, two flights in the US, and two domestic in the UK? (Okay, one of the UK domestic flights is actually the beginning of August.)

I may actually add a third flight in the US but I haven't decided yet.

Another anecdote: my Air France flight from Paris to Los Angeles last month was only half full.

Just booked our flights to Madrid. Not full. Not close to full. Of course anecdotal evidence is unreliable. I asked google and it said "flights to Europe are generally less full right now than they were last year."

Why? Capacity is slightly higher, fuel price shocks, TSA issues were off putting to some, wobbly from world events (e.g. Iran) and also because the Europe isn't what is used be. Back in the day, you go live like a king on 10 bucks a day! Ah, those were the days! Was there a plane better than the 707? I don't think so.

Happy travels.

Frank, better you than me. I am worn out from my 1:05 flight from Podgorica yesterday. And yes, it was full.

Some little brat pushed through the line and got on at the front and headed straight to a window seat. My traveling companion's window seat (I dont like the things myself). The fought attempts to get her to move. She sat all hissy all the way to Budapest ... on the asile. I would have killed for that asile seat.

We flew United Paris to Newark on Wednesday this week. We were in Premium Economy and that small section was full although one person was upgraded right before the flight and his seat remained empty. I’m guessing Polaris was full.

However, economy was very sparsely populated. There were many rows of 3 with one person in them and other rows entirely empty. (It’s a gamble but we certainly could have saved the money we spent on extra leg room in Premium Economy and had ample room in economy.)

Ruth, when i was flying back 3 times a year I would check seats the day prior and move to an empty center row, lay down and sleep. More than half the time i got one. If not that, an exit row in economy was cheaper than premium economy and more leg room. No wrongs here, just different.