Help with Rail Passes

Kristen, in my experience, a railpass is rarely the least expensive way to go. I think only two legs of your travel are entirely outside of Germany, and German Rail has a plethora of discount fares you can use. The other two legs of your trip are in Italy, and a railpass in Italy is rarely the most cost effective. If you go by Italian Eurostar (ES*), most of the time your passholder reservation fee will be nearly as much as the p2p ticket alone would be.

If you start in Amsterdam and have a few days there, so you can rely on making a specific train, your trip to Oberhausen can be as low as €19 per person. Similarly, the trip from Oberhausen to Rudesheim could be €49 for 2 P (€24,50 pP). The trip from Rudesheim to Munich might be a little more, €89 for 2 P. These are examples, you have to use specific dates and find the best fares.

But the bottom line is you have to find these discount fare yourself for your specific date and go through the trouble of comparing them to the cost of a railpass. Railpass companies thrive on travelers too lazy to make the comparisons.

Really tough to say when we don't know all of your possbile train journeys. However, I would offer a couple of thoughts. 1) you really don't need a pass for Austria if all you are going to do is pass through it. As Lee says above, the ticket to go from Munich to Venice, including the journey through Austria can often be purchased at a good discount from www.bahn.de, the German rail website.

In Italy, a railpass is often not worth it for two reasons: 1) parts of your journeys could be on a Eurostar train. With a railpass, you pay an 18Euro supplement for seat reservations. Sometimes, this supplement is half the cost of a P2P ticket that would include the seat reservations. 2) your side journeys may often be on lower category trains. No supplements on this R train or IC train categories but the ticket costs are quite low. For example, a train from Lucca to Florence is 5Euro. Florence to Rome on the Eurostar is 36Euro including the seat reservation but if you have a pass, you'll pay the 18Euro supplement. It just doesn't pay for a railpass in Italy.

Unfortunately, it's just too easy to buy expensive railpasses thinking it covers everything and not take the time to plan all alternatives. Please provide more detail. We can provide better assistance.

"you really don't need a pass for Austria if all you are going to do is pass through it".

No, but with a railpass that does not include Austria, you will need some kind of ticket coverage for the part across Austia. A p2p tickets from Kufstein (AT) to Brenero (IT) is €21,40. Or, you could just buy a SparNight ticket (rail plus accommodations) for the trip.

Thank you so much for your help. These are the main stops that we are taking, but we will have additional day trips. Here is our entire itinerary:

Aug. 29 - Sept. 2
Amsterdam (local day trips, no train needed)

Leave Amsterdam on Aug. 2nd for Oberhausen

Sept. 2 - 4
Oberhausen, Germany ( taking day trip to Koln on Sept. 3, which we will also need a train)

Leave Oberhausen Sept. 4th for Rudesheim, Germany

Sept. 4 - 6
Rudesheim, Germany (exploring the town, no train for day trips)

Sept. 6
Leave Rudesheim for Kamp-Bornhofen (no train needed)

Leave Sept. 7 for Munich (trying to decide whether we should leave from Rudesheim or Kamp-bornhofen since they are close to each other)

Sept. 7 - 11
Munich, Germany ( We will be taking a day trip to Dachau by train on Sept. 8. The other day trips will probably be book through a tour so we wont need a train)

Leave Sept. 11 for Venice, Italy

Sept. 11-15
Venice, Italy (No trains needed until we leave)

Leave Sept. 15 for Lucca, Italy

Sept. 15-19
Lucca, Italy ( day trip to Pisa and Florence possibly on same day if time allows, trains needed)

Leave Sept. 19 for Rome

Sept 19-23
Rome, Italy ( no trains needed, we will be doing local tours)

Sept. 23rd leave for United States

Any suggestions would help. Thank you so much!!

Kristen, that's much better. I can assist with the Italy trains. From Venice to Lucca on 9/15, CLICK HERE to see the morning schedule. You will change trains once or twice depending on which run you choose. Notice the train category columm. On the R (Regionale) trains, you will have open tickets for 60 days. No train number or seat assignments. You get on a find your own seat. If the train is full, you stand. It's the local. It stops frequently and people get on/off. It's like a local bus system. For the ES and A trains, you will have tickets with dates, time, train number and seat assignments. You will have one ticket for each train you are on. With 3 days or so in Lucca, you are 2hrs from the Cinque Terre if you want to make that day trip. You are 30 minutes by train from Pisa if you want to day trip there. Not much there to see besides the leaning tower and the adjoining historical grounds.

CLICK HERE to see the schedule from Lucca to Florence. I would suggest not making Florence a day trip from Lucca but instead, leaving Lucca early in the morning for Rome via Florence. Spend the day in Florence and take the high-speed to Rome late in the day. It's only a 1hr. 40min trip on the Eurostar. You can store your luggage in the staffed luggage storage area in the Florence train station. CLICK HERE for the afternoon trains to Rome. Click on Next for later trains.

For your departure from Rome, make sure that you can get to Rome-FCO 3 hours before departure. You really do need the time out there. If you have an early plane departure, you may have to have your hotel have a taxi waiting for you very early in the morning. The 11Euro Leonardo express train doesn't start running until 5:50am with an arrival at FCO at 6:30am. If you plane departure time is 9:30 or later, your fine. If it's earlier, it's taxi time.

wow thank you SO much for your help. I have one last question....I have never traveled by train before....If I wanted to book a reservation for a certain train do I just call a day before or can my concierge help me out with that? (I'm staying with the Hilton hotels in most places and they have a concierge there) Thank you so much again!!

Kristen....Amsterdam to Oberhausen, 19 Euro...Oberhausen-Koln return, 28....Oberhausen-Rudesheim, 29....Rudesheim-Munich, 49....Munich-Dachau return @10....Munich-Venice, 53 Euro....Venice-Lucca, 25 Euro....Lucca-Pisa return, 12 Euro....Lucca-Florence, 9...Florence-Rome, 29 Euro. Total, around 253 Euro, or about $420 US. These are all second class fares and, in many cases, are non-refundable or changeable. I think the Eurail pass for 10 days over four countries is $697. All except local journeys available on-line for purchase (http://www.bahn.de and http://www.trenitalia.com/en/index.html) or, in the case of problems with Trenitalia (the Italian national rail system), probably OK for purchase as soon as you arrive in Venice. If you wish to register and try to purchase on Trenitalia, post or PM for some tips to try to smooth the way.

Kristen, hotels don't book reservations on trains. It's not like theatres or museums. There are so many North Americans who have never been near a train station. Now, they are going to country where the train is the principal method of travel. Also, the American traveler simply doesn't want to waste precious vacation time in a train station which is a shame because it's part of the local culture.

There are two ways to get your Italy tickets. One is easy but a bit more expensive and the second is a bit more adventureous (meaning that you have to go into a real train station). Here's the easy way. If you know the dates and times that you wish to travel, you can buy tickets on www.italiarail.com. You can also buy them on www.raileurope.com. They are both ticket broker so the tickets will cost more than if you bought them in Italy. Also, neither Italialrail nor Raileurope will pass on possible discounts that could be had if you buy early when you reach Italy.

For the adventureous way, you will be arriving in the Venice train station. Simply walk over to a self-service kiosk (there are a few) and buy your tickets for Venice to Lucca. The machine will prompt you in English, assign any seat assignments and will accept your Amerian credit card. While making the purchase, the machine will ask you which fare you want. The standard is "standard". However, if you do use the machine, ask for the AMICA fare. These are limited 20% discount fares. if they are available, the machine will give you the discount.

If you are really certain of your dates and times for your trips out of Lucca, you can buy them at the same time. Buying them this early gives you a better chance to get the AMICA fares.

Raileurope will also sell you you Amsterdam and other tickets but you will pay a premium. As Lee has said above, you can get special fares on www.bahn.de for your journeys originating in Germany.

Thank you guys SO much! I really appreciate it because I'm not familiar with the train stations at all, but your adventurous way sounds like a good idea and I think we will try it. Thanks again!

Kristen, I so glad to hear that you are up for a bit of local adventure. Be a traveler and not a tourist.

However, if you're still uncertain when you get to Venice, Trenitalia has an office in the Venice train station if you need help when you arrive. To find it, walk in the right door from the front of the station and walk towards the tracks (straight ahead). About 50 feet in, you will see a Tabacchi shop on your left and the Trenitalia office on your right. If you pass the pizza stand on your right and emerge at the platform, you've passed it. You have to stand in a short line outside the door and they buzz you in. The agents usually speak English and they will plan your trip and print it out but they won't sell tickets there. At that point, you can go to the self-service machine or to the ticket window and hand the paper to the agent. You'll be a train pro after your first 2-3 rides. It's really easy. When I work with travelers with teens, I advise them to let the teens work the train system. They can pick it up immediately. Larry