Masks requirements on the bus?

This week's tour report was just posted
https://www.ricksteves.com/tours/on-the-road-reports

This is what makes me nervous. My tour isn't for another four months, and I just got my second booster, but I'm so afraid of getting stuck for several days in a foreign country which would delay me going home, back to work, extend my dog sitting needs, and more.

I sure hope so. No one is being asked to storm the beaches of Normandy. Just wear a mask.

There was a slight rise in the percentage of travelers testing positive last week (2.4%, up from 1.9%).

I am glad to see they are tracking these numbers. It allows everyone (tour members and leaders) to adjust behaviors/expectations if needed. Good job.

Yes, masks are still, thankfully, required.

@Jill. I understand your worries. My sister, who loves to travel, made the decision not to travel right now for that very reason. The stress of wondering about the final testing was too much for her. I have a bit more flexibility as I have no pets or work commitments. Even so, there was always a bit of stress in the back of my mind on my recent trip about "what if."

Each person needs to make their own decision about how much uncertainty or stress they can endure and still enjoy the trip.

There was a slight rise in the percentage of travelers testing positive last week (2.4%, up from 1.9%). Most groups have been unscathed while
COVID caused more of an impact on a couple of tours. A Best of Ireland group had six people test positive and a Best of Europe (in 14 days) had 10 travelers quarantine at various times during and after the tour.

"Random" certainly comes to mind.

I suspect if the tours with 6 & 10 cases are excluded, the increase from 1.9% to 2.4% would vanish.

those that are hit, have had one or two people test positive with most of those cases occuring at the end of the tour when taking the required test to enter the US

I see that as an indication that for those who are properly vaccinated, covid is becoming an annoyance, like the cold or flu, and not the killer it was in 2020.. Hopefully the 'going home' test will vanish soon

My husband and I tested positive in a home test last week. We both wear our masks ALL the time other than walking outside in the forest and in our home. Covid is truly endemic. What I should have done is had a PCR test so there was a record of my positive test. My understanding is if you have a positive PCR test, you don’t have to retest for 6 months, because you could still test pos from the original test. Anyone have further information on that.? I tested negative on the home test today, so makes no sense to have the PCR now.

We are on a RSTour in September. In Canada if you are fully vaccinated, you don’t need to test coming home from anywhere. We still have to be masked on planes coming to or leaving Canada. I’m glad about that.

With the boost of immunity from this infection, and the second booster which I will hold off getting until July, I should have a great immune response just in time for my tour. Of course I will continue to wear my mask when out of my hotel room and on the bus. I don’t care that most of England is maskless.

Check with your doctor on the timing of your second booster. I think the medical establishment may be suggesting a wait of a bit more than two months after infection.

I'm not sure infection recovery gets you a 6-month exemption from testing. Check on that timeframe, too, if you contemplate using that loophole. I've avoided COVID so far, but I have a vague recollection of reading 90 days somewhere--though I don't remember the source, so it may not have been reliable information.

Pasted below is what the CDC says about the requirements to return to the US for people who have recently recovered from Covid. They basically want proof of a positive test within the previous 90 days and a letter from a doctor that clears you for travel.

“People who have recovered from COVID-19 can continue to test positive for up to 3 months after their infection. CDC does not recommend retesting within 3 months after a person with COVID-19 first developed symptoms of COVID-19 (or the date their sample was taken for their first positive viral diagnostic test if their infection was asymptomatic).

“If you have had a positive viral test on a sample taken during the past 90 days, and you have met the criteria to travel, you may travel instead with your positive viral test results and a signed letter from a licensed healthcare provider or a public health official that states you have been cleared for travel according to CDC’s travel guidance. The positive test result and letter together are referred to as “documentation of recovery.”

“A letter from your healthcare provider or a public health official that clears you to travel, must have information that identifies you personally (e.g., name and date of birth) that matches the personal identifiers on your passport or other travel documents. The letter must be signed and dated on official letterhead that contains the name, address, and phone number of the healthcare provider or public health official who signed the letter.

“If you have recovered from COVID-19 but are not able to obtain documentation of recovery that fulfills the requirements, you will need to show a negative COVID-19 viral test result from a sample taken no more than 1 day before your flight to the US departs.

“Even if you have recovered from COVID-19, if you develop symptoms of COVID-19 you should isolate, not travel, and consult with a healthcare provider for testing recommendations.”

Here is the page on the CDC website that answers this question, as well as much more:

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/travelers/testing-international-air-travelers.html

So Rick says, "We currently require medical grade (N95, KN95, KF94) masks on our buses."

I've been wearing the regular pleated masks with ear loops for the past 2 years. One brand fits perfectly. One I have to tie a knot in the ear loops to make it fit perfectly. I'd be happy to adjust the ear loops like that if needed, but you can't make the straps or ear loops longer.

I continue to try to find an N95, a KN95 or a KF94 mask that doesn't hurt. I've tried most of the styles recommended by forum participants and they have all failed in one way or another.

So far, the straps on the ones with 2 straps are too short. So are the straps on the ones with ear loops. And the ones with staples (staples? really? tight against your face?) and 2 too short straps are total losers for me.

I haven't yet tried the duckbill style Kimberly-Clark PROFESSIONAL N95 Pouch Respirator (53358), NIOSH-Approved primarily because I can't seem to locate a place to buy a just a few (instead of a bag of 50). Can anyone suggest a place to get a few of those to try?

Also, does anyone have any advice about masks that fit the tour requirement and have longer or adjustable straps along with no sharp staples?

My tour starts on 24 July in Dublin and ends 6 August in Belfast. I'd like to get this solved before my flight leaves the US. 😷

I wish the RS tour folks would make some specific recommendations for us. Then we could try them, knowing that if they work for us, they'll be approved.

Lo: There are straps sold on Amazon that are purported to be adjustable and more comfortable than the ear-loops on KN95 masks. I haven't tried any of them, but I certainly would if I couldn't find a comfortable mask.

I use N95s with loops that go over my head and under my ears. I don't find the straps uncomfortable, but KN95s are too loose on me, so I definitely can imagine that my N95s wouldn't be right for everyone.

Mask straps on Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/mask-straps/s?k=mask+straps

Would a fabric or hobby store have elastic you could substitute on the ill fitted masks?

Lo
I have the Kimberly Clark Duckbill N95 masks that I bought from Amazon. The straps are made of what feels like a soft cotton and are very comfortable and the masks areNOISH approved. The pleated surgical type masks are not very protective, but if you wear one over a looser KN95 mask, it might help to make the KN95 fit more snuggly.
For those having problems with ears hurting from ear straps, try bobby-pinning the straps in your hair.

I’m very concerned about group dinners as well as eating inside. It makes no sense having to wear a mask on the bus only to take them off for a long group dinner. I will be wearing a mask and may have to skip group dinners.

I also wonder how many remove their masks when out and about on free time? That might be the cause of positive testing results.

I have recently completed a RS tour and am now under a government imposed 10 day quarantine period in Milan,Italy after testing positive the day before my scheduled flight home. I also face the unknowns of getting home asap.
I’ve gotten a recovery letter from my Doctor in US to have once I can hopefully get a negative test.
I’ve read hundreds of comments in and around the RS forum and all the information provided by the RS company.
Warning…there is a real risk traveling currently! My wife and I discussed the pros and cons of traveling prior to our final payment/commitment. We are experiencing travelers and multi RS tour alumni.
We chose to travel and chose to travel with friends also RS tour alumni. That I’d say ,if possible, a “must-do”. My wife and friends tested negative and were allowed to travel home together.
My journey navigating the Italian and airline along with US re enter adventure is just beginning.
Regarding masks and what I experienced on Tour and before/after…it’s all over the board. As the tour went on people became more and more lacking in strict COVID precautions…just human nature unfortunately. Group dinners MAY be one big challenge in and around COVID protection.
Take- away…you can NOT be careful enough!
Unfortunately after 9 RS tours we’ve seen what happens…people bring along their “bugs”…and what we now call the “ the tour bug” starts…and spreads! Now we have COVID added to the mix along with all the still unknowns.
People get excited to travel…especially RS members…unfortunately there are some negative side effects everyone must be aware of and prepared for the NEW world we live in!
Good news …great trip!
Bad news …it’s all about how you finish…in my case and others on this adventure COVID has added a new dimension!
Travel with your eyes OPEN…travel with KNOWLEDGE…travel PREPARED…and be sure you have a BACK-UP PLAN!
I want to end that despite my current situation I’m a strong supporter of the Rick Steve’s Company…it’s staff, guides and their beautiful relationships they’ve established.

Ronmillerco - see my post above that quotes directly from the CDC website. CDC does NOT require you to get a negative test in this case. As they point out, you may test positive for as long as 90 days after the original positive test. Instead, you may present to the airline proof of the original positive test along with the letter of recovery from your doctor. Print out or bookmark the CDC requirements to show them in case you get an argument. I put the link in my post above.

Masks were required on the bus on the RS tour we just returned from. Although the word from the website is that they must be medical grade (N95 KN95 KN94), the type of mask was not regulated on our tour and only a few people were wearing those kind. The disposable surgical mask was the most popular. Some had cloth masks. It was easy to forget to put them on when entering the bus, after spending hours with them tucked away, mask-less while visiting outdoor sites, non-crowded indoor sites, drinking and dining together, etc. Our guide made it clear at our welcome meeting that she was going to rely on us to be mature and responsible adults who would comply with the bus rule. Elsewhere, mask-wearing was at each individual's discretion. Our guide didn't go up and down the bus aisle enforcing the mask, or even announce reminders. When those who forgot realized it, they'd put them on.

I work in the medical field and wear a mask all day. I have found the strap extenders A Craven links to on Amazon do the trick.

We are on our second RS tour and one tour member is consistently wearing his mask like a chin strap on the bus. The guide keeps saying to all of us to wear the mask over our noses but has no way to enforce it. But then we are all eating together at restaurants unmasked. So his being unmasked bothers me but we are exposed to him and the others on the tour at meals.

Does Rick's numbers include tour members who test positive a couple of days after the end of the tour?

Mary, it seems to me.........and someone from the RSEurope team please respond, too...........but seems that if the rules of the tour require mask wearing on the bus, and if a tour member is wearing it like a chin cover, then that tour member could be required to leave the tour (if reminded and they then fail to comply) . What am I missing here, RS staff?

Maybe the wording needs to spell out that the mask must be properly worn to cover both the mouth and nose...........so someone does not think they can "wear" the mask on their wrist (or chin).

I know many take pride in saying as a generalization that Rick Steves' customers are more responsible, caring, aware, etc...........but, that is a broad-based generalization and not one that can be totally relied on....it only takes one person to spread covid.

Mary, I would suggest your ask the guide to have him wear it properly. If the guide has, and he does not comply, I would probably ask for a separate method of transport to the next venue and onward..........afterall what you purchased is a transport with fellow tour goers wearing a certain kind of mask.

Yep, the meal are the part that worries me.................that is likely the biggest "spreader risk" of all. It would be nice if tour members could have the option of dining outside, at separate tables, or even (the extreme of) having a take-out box to have in their hotel rooms.

As always, thank you for sharing your on-the-ground experiences.

There is no penalty that I can see for not wearing your mask above your nose when on the bus. There is nothing that says you will be expelled from the tour for this. The guide says to please wear your mask above your nose very time we get on the bus as we are responsible for each other’s welfare. At dinner last night, six+ members of our group were at the same table, unmasked and really boisterous including the bus mask scofflaw. That to me is as risky as being unmasked on the bus. I don’t see any way around this. It is a risk we all face on a tour. I am starting to test as we are less than a week from going home. I just tested negative and hope it continues this way.

Does anyone have a suggestion how to stop my runny nose? As soon as I put my mask on, my nose runs. Yuck! I am constantly cautiously taking my mask off one ear to wipe my nose.

Here are a couple of my suggestions since I wear a mask everywhere I go. But to clarify, my RS tour is mid-September. I plan to take a few n95 masks which I don’t like, KN95s in both white and black and the level 3 surgical masks listed below. Living in AZ, I am used to lots of people not wearing masks and only 60% are vax’d. So it’s my responsibility to be as safe as possible.

I either wear a kn95 mask or a level 3 surgical mask. Not all surgical masks are the same. Most are level 1 with the least amount of protection. This Surgical mask was recommended by my orthodontist’s office: level 3; adjustable nose with extension so glasses don’t steam up a tight fit; adjustable chin so mask fits tight:
https://www.amazon.com/BeeSure-Vibe-Face-Masks-Luminous/dp/B07R1285CQ/ref=mp_s_a_1_3?crid=2MNNPF66KFEGV&keywords=beesure+mask+level+3&qid=1652538540&sprefix=beesu%2Caps%2C134&sr=8-3

Acraven posted about ear savers. I have not tried any but if you’re a knitter here’s a link to patterns. Since you choose your yarn and size they should be softer, more comfortable and fit better than the ones for sale on Amazon:
https://www.allknittingpatterns.com/face-mask-ear-savers-free-knitting-patterns/

I probably shouldn’t say this until we have negative tests to go home, but I think one advantage of the My Way tours is that group time is limited to the bus. Unless people are traveling together, we disperse once we get to our destination. We are currently on My Way Italy and there has been no problem with mask-wearing. On the ride today, the guide encouraged us to think about wearing masks in crowded situations, both indoors and out.

A few weeks ago, quite a few travel guides that I follow, were posting that they would continue to wear masks in certain situations. During COVID, they realized that not only are they not getting COVID, they aren't getting other pesky viruses. Since their livelihood depends on being able to work, they said, they'd continue with the masks. Made sense to me. Off the top of my head, they were Sarah Murdoch, Trish Feaster, Jorge Roman, and more.

I hate wearing a mask. They are hot, my glasses steam, somehow it feels like my vision is slightly impaired, but I hate having bugs, major and minor, more. Right now, at least, I wouldn't go on a tour that isn't requiring masks in tighter spaces (like buses)

We just got home from Italy. I think most of the masking mandates were dropped except transportation and certain venues. Many travelers continued wearing masks in restaurants, etc.

We met a man in Siracusa at a restaurant (outside). He was picking up takeout for his wife who tested positive right before their tour started. I wish I asked him their vaccination status. Afterwards, I was also thinking, should he been in quarantine as well? as the travel companion?

I wish when people report that they are COVID positive at the end of their travels, that they would also post their vaccination status. Not so they can be shamed or complemented, but to help people pondering travel plans. It seems like A LOT of travelers are posting positive COVID status and quarantines. It is hard to put that in perspective. People that do not test COVID positive generally do not post that, so who knows how prevalent this is.

The guy wearing is mask as a chin strap is unacceptable. I might not agree to get on that bus. He puts everybody at risk.

Hello Everyone,

Thank you Mary for letting us know that mask wearing is not being properly mandated. I have sent a message to your tour guide letting them know that proper mask wearing, and proper masks (not cloth) are required on the bus. We like to have faith in our tour members that they will wear masks correctly, but sometimes a reminder is required! Travel/vacation brain is a real thing.

To Gretchen's original question- yes, we are requiring medical grade masks on the bus in 2022 and highly recommend wearing masks indoors when not eating. Thankfully, the small percentage of people who have tested positive have had either mild cold-like symptoms or were asymptomatic and tested positive before their flight home.

For questions about boosters, we are following the CDC's definition of "up to date" (a similar link was posted earlier): https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/stay-up-to-date.html
Right now we are only requiring one booster for our tours.

And, the tour FAQ page is always helpful (I go there everyday!): https://www.ricksteves.com/travel-help/tours-faq

I hope this helps to clarify, happy travels everyone!

Julianne

Jules…great question/comments.
I’m in Milan stuck due to positive COVID test one day before my/our planned return home.
I’ve had all 4 vaccinations…hoping they help and I’m soon able to return HOME.
COVID has not gone away…even thou some travelers appear to be letting their guard down. I wasn’t one of them I thought.

Horsewoofie: A friend mentioned to me just two days ago that she had a big problem with a runny nose back in January when we attended a week-long indoor event. I hadn't noticed her issue, but it bothered her a lot. She subsequently switched masks, and the problem went away. It turned out she was allergic to (or at least sensitive to) whatever the original mask was made of or treated with. So I suggest you keep trying different masks (perhaps they need to be different brands?) in hopes of finding one that doesn't cause the sniffles. I'll email my friend and ask her what she's using now and PM the info to you, though I realize there's no guarantee what works well for her will also work for you. I have no problem at all with my 3M N95s, but I tend not to be very sensitive to environmental irritants. In case you want to try what I'm using, here are the details:

Box labeled: 3M GB2626-2019 KN95 (but they are N95s, not KN95s)

Masks labeled: EM 9502+ N95
TC-84A-8637

My masks were purchased from Amazon but made in China.

@acraven, wow!! Never thought of the idea that I could be allergic to my mask! I've commented to friends and family how crazy it is that every time I put on a mask, my nose itches and/or runs. One time, my throat and ears started itching. I never considered am allergy and I've had allergies most of my life. Silly me! It never dawned on me that I could be allergic to the mask. I use KN95s that my son gets from his employer.

I wish when people report that they are COVID positive at the end of their travels, that they would also post their vaccination status. Not so they can be shamed or complemented, but to help people pondering travel plans.

jules m. if they report that they tested positive while on a rs tour, then they are vaccinated since that is a requirement to be on a tour. There are plenty of people who are vaccinated and boosted who are testing positive these days, I have three friends who have gotten mild cases of covid over the past couple of months despite being vaxed, boosted, and diligent with masking.

“ I wish when people report that they are COVID positive at the end of their travels, that they would also post their vaccination status. Not so they can be shamed or complemented, but to help people pondering travel plans.”

I feel you may have the wrong idea about how vaccines work. Being vaccinated doesn’t mean you can’t still catch COVID and test positive. Being vaccinated means that your body will recognize the virus and put its antibodies to work to fight the virus. This should result in milder or less symptoms and therefore reduce your chance of getting seriously ill and needing hospital care.
Since even those who are vaccinated and double boosted can still test positive, I don’t believe it’s relevant to know the vaccination status of those who test positive. I already think it’s great that they choose to share the fact that they tested positive here. I mean, this is after all still a public forum.

well as RS requires vaccination and boosted (but not the second booster), the only thing you don't know about someone testing positive on their trips is if they got the second booster or not

Laura, I know this specific post relates to RS tours. My intent was express my wish that when people make any posts on this forum or other platforms about testing positive after their travels that they would indicate their vaccination status. There have been many people reporting that they've tested positive returning from Europe, but there are few posts about people that have traveled and have tested negative. My point, the positive tests give people pause, and I think they should, but its hard to get a sense of how much this happens and the relative risks. Its similar to negative hotel and restaurant reviews, people are more likely to report a negative experience than a positive one. You are reporting that you know people that have been vaccinated but tested positive. I myself, don't know anyone personally that has been vaccinated and boosted that has had a breakthru case. Yet, each of us have a pretty small sample size. I don't think its clear to anyone whether to get a booster prior to travel and whether it helps someone avoid infection. I think at this point, people are more concerned about contracting COVID and being detained in quarantine than they are about becoming infected in terms of medical outcome. I would just like more facts when someone reports they tested positive in Europe.

I'm on the east coast, near Philadelphia.
I know quite a few people who have taken the pandemic seriously, have gotten vaccinated and boosted, and have avoided getting the virus for 2 years. Until
last month. Suddenly lots of people I know have been infected, including me.

Jules,
My husband and I have been vaccinated and boosted (x1). I have been careful. However, oftentimes I find myself the only one wearing a mask in a store. Nevertheless, Friday, my husband and I both tested positive. I guess you could consider our symptoms mild, but I still wouldn't wish them on anyone. I also have many vaccinated and boosted friends who have contracted mild cases of covid.

I agree with you that it would be good to hear more reports of positive and negative test results when departing Europe for the U.S. Info such as this would be helpful when my husband and I make plans for our first European trip since the start of covid. I'm hoping for 2022, but it's not looking good. Hope springs eternal!

Horsewoofie: Another suggestion for runny nose is ipratropium bromide nasal spray (available generic and brand name Atrovent). I've had a nearly constantly runny nose since turning 60, and this is definitely exacerbated by wearing a mask. I don't use it daily, but when I know I'll be wearing a mask for a long period, or if I have an appointment or engagement of some sort and don't want to be bothered by a runny nose, I use the spray in both nostrils about 30-60 minutes before leaving the house. Works great. By prescription only, with a few warnings/contraindications, most notably narrow angle glaucoma.

https://www.mayoclinic.org/drugs-supplements/ipratropium-nasal-route/description/drg-20064390

Thanks Grace. I will cautiously check it out. My ENT recommended Nasacourt for sinus problems several years ago. I reacted and lost much of my sense of smell.

Wish we didn't have to be so worried about an asymptomatic or cold like illness if we've had all the recommended jabs...

Very few of my US based friends and family have had breakthrough cases, but they lead very cloistered lives still, with the exception of my NY-based offspring. OTOH, many of my French friends have had breakthrough cases since Omicron. All were up-to-date on their shots. In France, it’s considered endemic, so life goes on. If people had to produce a negative test, it would be a different scenario.

Negative tests: my husband and I were negative last week despite being out and about in France for three months. All my kids who came to visit us were negative. All my friends flying back to the US have been negative. It’s always a bit nerve wracking until you have the negative results in hand.

As for tours: it would be useful to pinpoint the different level of exposure between group travel and independent travel and where that exposure takes place. Perhaps then, remedies could be found that replicate independent travel and reduce group exposure.

“ In France, it’s considered endemic, so life goes on. If people had to produce a negative test, it would be a different scenario.”

Exactly, Bets. At this point, it does seem endemic. The question is how long we have to deal with testing when asymptomatic or with mild cold-like symptoms. We’re vaxed and boosted and headed to France on Friday for RS Eastern France tour. I hate having the threat of testing positive before, during, and after but prepared to deal with it.

@travelgirl, I'm so sorry that in spite of your efforts you contracted COVID. I do understand that people can get COVID in spite of all their efforts to catch it. At present, that is what frustrates me the most. I've been home from Sicily about a week and I do occasionally wear a mask in certain situations, and often its just a few of us wearing a mask. We also wore one on the plane, even though that mandate was lifted, actually it was announced at the beginning of our flight to Sicily.

I should think it'd be a really good idea for people doing a tour in Europe to wear a good mask on their flight. I felt so bad for the couple we met in Sicily that missed their tour because they tested positive one day in.

Jules, both my husband and I are vaccinated and received both boosters, the last booster, two weeks before we traveled to Italy. The RS tour we participated in had several group dinners in small enclosed spaces and some tour members, unfortunately had to be told continually to wear their masks appropriately on the bus. During the last half of the tour several members developed colds including our guide. Our guide announced she had tested negative but there was no mention of whether the others with colds had tested as I believe is required. Obviously, they didn’t and continued to ride the bus and participate in the group dinners. On the last bus ride we were all transferred to a very small bus, stuck in traffic for over two hours and the tour member my husband was next to, who was coughing and wiping her running nose, tested positive before her flight and quarantined in Rome. That member had to have been vaccinated and boostered to participate in the tour. And now my husband has tested positive and is quarantined, waiting, unable to come home. I do not know of anyone else other than my husband that tested positive because RS did not offer up any more info after the first one. My points…. Being vaccinated and boostered is not going to protect you from contracting this virus, the masks even if worn correctly do not fully protect you, the RS group dinners and long bus drives in a confined space are the perfect places to spread the virus, you cannot stop people from being inconsiderate of others and until this virus is treated as endemic and the re-entry testing dropped be prepared to extend your stay isolated in a hotel room for 10 days.

Margie, thanks for your info. I just returned from Sicily and went to Poland a half a year ago.Fortunately, we tested negative prior to both returns. We were quite nervous in a situation similar to yours. We took a small bus to a small town/church and even though masks were required, few wore them. I felt like we dodged a bullet, there.

It's disappointing that the tour guide didn't enforce the mask requirement.

Jules, our tour guide did repeatedly ask that members wear their masks correctly. What I’m upset about is that she had to and that the tour member we were told tested positive rode the bus and participated in the the last group dinner even though it was quite obvious she was sick as were others. If you’re coughing, and/or your nose is running, cover up and stay away from the rest of the group and for Pete’s sake, get tested. There’s a pharmacy on just about every corner in Italy.

I leave tomorrow for my Scandinavia tour 5/22-6/04, we’re arriving 3 days early. I’m appalled to read on this thread and others on the forum, that guides had to repeatedly tell tour members to mask up. And those people apparently ignored the guide’s requests. We all had to sign a pledge to abide by the health and safety rules of RSE before joining a tour so there is no excuse to do otherwise.

All I can say is, if this happens on my tour with tour members who do not wear their masks correctly or at all, I will discreetly tell my guide. If the tour members do not comply, then I will call the Rick Steves office and report my concerns. I am not putting my health at risk because of reckless behavior.

It seems to me, the guide could have those tour members removed forthwith.

In fact, I have forwarded this thread to the RSE organization for their input.

It’s shocking that people only think of themselves.I would have left the last dinner in this instance.

Hey folks, this is a quick message to say thank you for the reports and feedback. I've looped in those that operate our tour program so that they can ensure that our mask-wearing protocols are evenly followed across our tour program.

Judy B - I sent an email to RSE too. This is not the only story like this. My wife and I are getting very nervous about our upcoming tours.

If masking on the bus is very important to you (as it was to me), a cautionary tale:
I was on an RS tour end of April / beginning of May. The first time we got on the bus, the guide announced that we “probably didn’t need masks” since we were “comfortable with each other.” After that I never saw another person wear a mask on the bus.
RS’s tour updates were saying before, during, and after my tour that they require medical grade masks on the bus.

Mnoelle,
Did you report the guide’s behavior? RSE needs to know.

Judy B, I PM’d a staff member on the forum but haven’t heard back; will try another form of contact. I also gave details in my tour review.
I wanted to be discreet since it seems like this guide was an outlier. In the moment I was taken aback that no one else seemed concerned; but this post and others have assured me that others besides me would find this alarming.

Mnoelle,
I emailed the tour department at Rick Steves and also the Webmaster of the forum and received a prompt response. He said to inform your guide discreetly and wait for the guide to see what happens. If this non-compliance continues, then contact the RSE office directly. The guide is empowered to remove any tour member on the spot.

When I go on my tour in September if the mask requirement is still in effect, and the guide doesn’t either enforce it or boot off the scofflaws who are non compliant, I will leave the tour and demand a refund from RS.

I am aghast that a tour guide for RSE would assume all the people on the tour would be comfortable enough with each other that they wouldn’t need to mask on the bus.

Some of us are venturing out on tours this year ONLY because we have the assurances of safety protocols in place by RSE. It is not my job to police the other tour members, but it is RS and staff who are responsible to minimize the risks.

Yes, despite all precautions, we might all get Covid. If all rules are followed, and we get sick, that would be too bad, but not the fault of RS.

Susie and others, please remember that those masks are not foolproof especially if you are around someone with an active Covid case in an enclosed space such as a bus for an extended period of time. The mask requirement is important but in my opinion it is equally or more so that if a tour member comes down with cold symptoms that they be immediately separated from the group and tested. I had to sign a health and safety pledge that I would test if I developed cold symptoms. I’m extremely disappointed that my fellow tour members did not abide by what they had signed because my husband and I are now the ones having to deal with the consequences of their inactions. It’s extremely disappointing!

The email response from RSE seems tepid and ineffective. I emailed my concern too but have not gotten a response yet. Compliance with mask wearing will not solve all problems but will help and is an important piece of the whole puzzle. I hope the RSE group figures this thing out in a much better way before our tours start. We are really looking forward to our tours. We knew there would be COVID risk when we signed up but went ahead and still plan to go. One of my main concerns is the social tension that these COVID restrictions, or lack of compliance with them, might cause among tour members. We have always enjoyed the fellow travelers on the tours. For those of you on tours with scofflaws, did this cause problems among members?

Another point is that these stories are probably exceptions to the rule and we shouldn't panic too much. I've read other trip reports that described total compliance and trips that went exceedingly well with no COVID outbreaks. I suspect that this is the norm.

Just wrapping up our second RS tour and everyone in compliance on both tours. No one needed to be reminded and lots of tourmates wore them outdoors as well. Our fingers are crossed for negative tests in Rome tomorrow.

Patty that's great to hear!

After reading the post from Mnoelle (several above) re: what she report happened on her Rick Steves' tour, I am completely shocked if this particular guide still works for the organization. When one signs up for a tour, with the statement that participants are to wear masks on the bus, then something like this happens, the brand promise is then compromised. I am really beyond surprised, I am actually shocked:

Mnoelle wrote:
"..... was on an RS tour end of April / beginning of May. The first time we got on the bus, the guide announced that we “probably didn’t need masks” since we were “comfortable with each other.” After that I never saw another person wear a mask on the bus.
RS’s tour updates were saying before, during, and after my tour that they require medical grade masks on the bus."

On her profile for the Forum she stated this (likely written well before her tour):

Mnoelle
About:

"Yes. I am signed up for a spring tour and we have been notified that masks will be required on the bus.
If they weren’t, that would be a dealbreaker for me."

So, it sounds like despite what was promised to her, the deal was broke, so to speak. A guide unilaterally decided not to keep the Rick Steves brand promise?????

I think the Rick Steves' organization should issue some serious apologies on behalf of that guide.

Agree Maggie.

One of my main concerns is the social tension that these COVID restrictions, or lack of compliance with them, might cause among tour members.

I agree, the whole point of a vacation is to enjoy ourselves and enjoy the people, places and cultures of Europe. Having had COVID twice despite vaccines, boosters, & masking we are just planning that we will quite likely catch COVID at some point during our vacation. Thus I will be planning on contingencies for when we do catch it for the third time. At this point COVID round 3 and perhaps 4 hopefully will be nothing more then a minor annoyance.

I also hope that by fall the US will remove it COVID testing requirement for re entry.

I will of course abide by the safety pledge and mask up to help protect my fellow travelers, but masks are really not stopping the current COVID variant, especially when you spend 8+ hours on a bus. As Risk says there is risk to any travel...

Well Jeff, I advise you not to travel to Italy because they are still taking this very seriously. With the vaccines doses, it has been reduced to a cold in most cases but it’s not the discomfort of the cold that’s causing the problems but the restrictions that have put in place, both by the US for re-entry and the Italian government that demands a 7 day quarantine and then a retest. And you don’t want to retest positive because then there are further restrictions. No, it’s probably not the norm per se as Jim mentioned but it is happening and probably more than anyone realizes if the tour we were on is an example of what is not being reported.

Maggie: I didn’t know that was on my profile - I’ve deleted it since it doesn’t make sense in that context. It’s true though. Maybe I started to reply to a thread and it got saved there somehow?

Re: “it sounds like despite what was promised to her, the deal was broke, so to speak.” I should note that masking on the bus was not required when we signed up, and is not mentioned in any contract. It was a big part of my go-no go decision but I knew there were no guarantees.

Jim: I agree things going well is probably the norm. Just wanted to make people aware that whatever RS’s policies, they can’t really control what happens on the road. So folks who are serious about masking may want to consider whether they will be able to relax and enjoy their vacation if others on the bus are not properly wearing medical grade masks.

I did, after about half an hour considering whether to leave the tour. (Though I stayed masked and in the back.) And as far as I know, no one on my tour tested positive.

I probably won’t be back to this thread - I’m trying to break the daily forum habit now that my trip is over. Thanks for your support and enjoy your travels!

I would love an iron tight guarantee that i will not catch covid on our September 11 best of England tour. I understand that is not possible. I do expect my fellow travelers to abide by the rules to minimize my risk of infection. I have been advised by my wife and sister who are on the tour to not be one of “those people” who make their feelings known. I do , however, want my trip to be as safe as possible. Masks help prevent other people from getting whatever you have, on that note I say do it for us not for you! If I were at home and a guest refused to wear a mask I would deal with it accordingly. Please act like you are getting on our bus not your bus.
We have been careful with our bubbles. When we get on the bus with you, we are expanding our bubbles to include your bubbles. Please respect our space even f you don’t respect yours’
No politics here, just science.
Ted

Just as a side note we were in Rick Steves store last Saturday and discovered not one staff member dealing with the public wore a mask. Most customers did but 1 or 2 didn’t. We found it rather interesting.

My husband and I both contracted Covid on the Athens and Peloponnese tour. We were quarantined in Kardamyli for 5 days and could not return to the tour. A doctor came to the hotel to check us. She gave us letters stating that we had contracted Covid and second letters after our quarantine stating that we had recovered and could travel. One tour member tested positive the second day of the tour and had to remain in Athens. Three other tour members tested positive the same time that we did and also quarantined in Kardamyli.

Our initial group meeting was in a small room where we were packed in like sardines. Since wine and snacks were served, masks were removed for a period of time.

I think we should have been testing regularly during the tour.

It was stressful being sick and having to get back to Athens and change flight reservations.

To close the loop regarding my earlier post, about the guide who said we didn’t need to mask on the bus:

I did receive a very satisfactory reply from RS tour management. They agreed emphatically that this was not OK, and are following up with him.

Thank you Mnoelle for highlighting this issue for the rest of us and making RSE aware. Your effort will help to make a situation like this less likely in the future.

Dear Ted….this was our ninth RS tour and we have never been “one of those people” but it’s a new world out there and I now wish I had made my feelings known and refused to get on a bus or engaged in a group dinner in an enclosed space with obviously sick people.

We followed through with our RS tour plans, only because of the RS policy of vaccination and mask requirements, we have just completed Best of Southern England , our Guide was more than clear and still had people waltzing on without masking, sneaking them off and such, however after a discreet word from some of us our guide was on it right away, laying down the law and making sure people masked up before getting on and in small spaces, it really makes a difference to a feeling of ease. One interesting thing to note was American travellers are not required to wear masks while on their planes thus travelling with 400 or so others for long duration a veritable Petrie dish of germs but are required to be tested before flying home, we don’t have the required test for return flights but are required to be fully vaccinated, answer an ArriveCan return questionnaire AND wear a mask in our airports and on all flights domestic and international. R S is so very clear before you book about mask wearing it does get irksome when people disregard the rules, nobody loves wearing a mask but it’s a seatbelt for your face, RS please have your guides have the same standard as our guide, don’t baby those who don’t follow the rules

This topic came up in a thread not long ago, but nobody responded to it.

It sounds like there are 2 camps on some of the tours….those that follow all the rules regarding masking, and those who are much more lax. For those who have completed their tours, was there tension between the 2 groups?

I’ve only taken 1 previous RS tour, and the camaraderie amongst the participants was wonderful. When I’m on my tour in September, if masks are still required, I wouldn’t be too fond of the idea of engaging with a tour member who was cavalier about the rules. That could change the dynamics of the group quite a bit.

Anyone willing to share your experience?

@susie

“It sounds like there are 2 camps on some of the tours….those that follow all the rules regarding masking, and those who are much more lax. For those who have completed their tours, was there tension between the 2 groups?”

We just completed two back to back tours and thankfully tested negative. We had two tour members who were cavalier about mask wearing. The tour guide was made aware of it and constantly reiterated the mask rules to all of us, posted a sign on each bus door. She did everything she could. She may also have spoken to the two “offenders” but I don’t know that. At one point, another tour member sternly told these two to put the mask above their noses and they only raised them barely above their noses. I believe it did create tension in our group. My husband and I avoided close contact with these two people during the tour.

We had no tension on our tour. No one was ignoring the bus rule, although sometimes it was momentarily forgotten. Some were diligent about masking when we were visiting an indoor site, or a crowded outdoor site, others were not using masks unless the site required it. The masking decision was left up to our individual discretion in those instances. We had wonderful group chemistry. Everyone got along great! Our tour itinerary shows about 20 hours of bus time. We had 8 group meals that averaged about 2 hours each. So that's about 20 hours of being masked while seated on the bus, with the ability to socially distance because the bus capacity was large. On the bus, our group tended to be quiet . . .reading, sleeping, listening to what our guide had to say. Versus about 16 hours of being unmasked while seated shoulder-to-shoulder indoors at group meals, talking and laughing, eating and drinking. Does the bus rule become irrelevant in this context?

There was no tension on our tour (March 30th Heart of Belgium and Holland). I’m from Texas and we haven’t worn masks in over a year. I wore my mask whenever I was required to. I didn’t like it, but I did it. I never really knew who was a no-masker or who was a dedicated mask wearer. Everyone complied and wore their mask when it was required.

Just came off BOE 14 days tour. We were all requested to wear the K or KN 95 mask on the bus and the guide was firm about that. At the intro. meeting, she talked about how she has to test before each tour and it is her livelihood. She also stated that the US requirement to test negative before returning home was our issue. I have to say that everyone complied without issue on the bus. Now in crowded venues such as the metro or on the vaporetto, she also requested the masks which we wore. I always wore my mask indoors at museums, tight spaces, etc. but not everyone did. My husband and I caught colds on the tour but we brought test kits with us and Covid tested every 3 days to make sure it was just a cold. We also tried to stay within our circle of friends as there were some tour members who wore their masks religiously everywhere, including outdoors. All of our group who were required to test at the end of our tour, tested negative. Very few masks were seen on the Europeans though, maybe a few on public transportation. They seemed to have moved on and with the tight personal distancing practices of Europe, it was the smart thing for us to do. It was a pain though, I'll admit.

I'm not a big fan of mask wearing, but I do it when I am in close contact with people I don't know well. Such as on a tour.

People who won't follow rules seem like Grumps to me. And we know the RS policy regarding Grumps. :-)