trip to Spain-Portugal -Morocco

The sortie to Portugal and back is going to kill you. Madrid to Lisbon isn't hard. Getting back into Spain at Seville will take up the whole day - - if you fly, it'll probably be via Barcelona or something. Ground transportation is equally grim. You might want to look into flying into Lisbon and from there to Madrid, work on Spain and Morocco, then fly home from Madrid - - or maybe even from down south. With such a short amount of time, you're really not going to get a feel for any of the three countries. Just looking at what you have in mind, it appears that you'll have the bulk of five days devoted largely to travel within europe/africa. Compounding the problem is that Lisbon is not the essence/best of Portugal, nor is Tangier the essence/best of Morocco. A gut-shot is that you can't get from Seville to Tangier and back into anywhere in Spain in one day - - there's some more time down the tubes. Since both the Portugal and Morocco excursions would eat up a large amount of travel realative to what you'd see, I'd chop both of them - - certainly one or the other. That being said, I can make a heck of an argument for a couple of months in either of the three countries. It's decision time.

Thanks Ed for your reply. I am thinking of cutting morocco out and portugal as well. I don't think I mentioned that we would be traveling with kids 5 and 6 . My son's wish for his birthday is to go to spain. He is fascinated by it. I am starting to plan and would like to get input from people who have gone to spain. We want to see things at a leisurely pace.I was thinking of taking them to a soccer match if it si safe, maybe a bullfightint match.
What are your suggestions?

Both are safe, but both are seasonal, so it'd depend on when you're going. I lived in Spain as a kid, saw a batch of bull fights, and didn't grow up to torture cats. I've also seen a lot of gore as an adult. I'm not so sure I'd take my kids to see an animal killed.

Do you have RS Spain/Portugal Guide Book yet? We took his S/P tour several years ago and although I enjoyed both countries, I really did like Portugal the best for several reason.

I agree with Ed. With only 12 days, I'd suggest you just stick to Spain. Both Portugal and Morocco are great and well worth a visit, but you don't have enough time to do them both, and you really don't have enough time to do either and still get the full benefit of your time in Spain. Save them for a later trip. I'd go one step further and suggest (pre-emptively) that you avoid the temptation to include Barcelona in your trip (most people are tempted to do this). Yes, Barcelona is great, but it's "the odd man out" in Spain - both geographically and in other ways, but its distance from all the other stuff (and its proximity to southern France) makes me think it's best done on another trip. There's plenty of great stuff in the primary parts of Spain for 2 weeks that I don't think it's worth going all the way to the opposite end of the country to check off Barcelona. With just 12 days (and do you really have 12 full days?), I'd stick to Madrid and nearby sites, and all around Andalucia. Rick's book has very good info and suggestions for routes to maximize your enjoyment. It's worth getting and spending some time with it. Have fun!

Thank you all for your great suggestions. I have heard great things about Portugal and I am very much tempted to include it. We didn't plan on seeing Barcelona . We are thinking Madrid, Seville, Grenada, that should be plenty for a first trip. I am looking into which attractions to do that will be instructive and fun for the kids.: mix and match of both old and new.
We are thinking of looking for B&B instead of hotels. Is it a good idea?

The problem with going over to Morocco (I will be doing that again on Monday) is that you can never rely on the ferries to be on time. The earliest one can be delayed until 11am for example. If the crossing is rough, even the fast catamarans can take hours. Always best to approach that trip with plenty of time to spare. Tangier can be a good "taster" but a train ride down to Marrakech is better. Even better is Fez!

Just spent 10 days in Spain with two teens, mostly in Andalucia. We flew into Madrid and trained to Sevilla. 2 days/3 nights there let us catch a soccer game too. Rented a car and in 3 hours we were in Tarifa. The next morning we caught the first ferry to Tangier. It's not the real Morocco, but it was still interesting and colorful. It was an easy day trip. The next day we drove 5 hours (stopped for lunch and made a quick run past Gibraltar) and we were in Granada. Only had one day there and spent it at The Alhambra. The next day it was a short drive to Cordoba for The Mezquita. We trained back to Madrid for 2 full days there. It was quick and we wished we'd had more time, but there is never enough time. I agree that adding Portugal is too much for 12 days. But you could do the rest of your plan in 12. Trains vs cars vs flights combine to make it possible. I'd be happy to share other details if you drop me a message or see hotel info I shared with Faisal farther down the "to the west" listings.

You really have to exclude one of Morocco or Portugal. But you could do the other if you plan it well. In Spain: Madrid (2 days), Toledo (day trip or overnight), Sevilla (2 days), Granada (2 days) are musts and minimums. From there you can plan the rest of your trip, either heading south towards Morocco or flying in-out of Portugal. If you include Portugal, you need to fly open jaw say into Lisbon and come home from Madrid. You also must fly from Lisbon to Madrid as the only train is an overnight and that would be a lot with 2 little kids. Though it would be an adventure for them. Portugal is Lisbon (3 days) and Porto (2 days) plus some side and day trips.

Douglas, the kids would definately love spending the night in a train it has sleeping berths. You recommendations sounds great but very hectic ont he paper. Janice, I will pm for the details. I know my boys would love to see a soccer match

We did a Granada- Fes - Seville - Barcelona trip in 2 weeks time and it was great... Going to Tangiers for a taste of Morocco, IMO, is like saying Las Vegas would give you an idea of what the West coast is like! Fes was very interesting but a lengthy train trip from Tangiers (4+ hours), and the previous poster who referenced ferry troubles in Tangiers was spot on....rough seas kept us from catching our 'planned' ferry back to Algeciras, Spain and we were stranded in the Tangiers port for over 11 hours, waiting for any ferry brave enough to sail back! Do NOT miss going to Seville, it is a beautiful, charming city with friendly people and a terrific mix of the old AND the new! I have also heard that Barcelona trumps Madrid, so maybe you could fly into Lisbon and work your way from Seville on over to Barca and fly our of there?

Unless etched in stone I'd be looking to start in Lisbon then head to Madrid (an easy overnight trip by rail). From Madrid rail connections between Seville or Grenada are easy enough, but the connections between those two cites are more involved and time consuming. I went from Granada to Algeciras and it still took a large of the day due to limited service and very slow local trains so for Moracco this means either staying overnight in Algeciras or taking the late ferry to Tangier and staying over night there. It then becomes a long trip from Algecaris back up to Madrid; I believe there is only one direct train and it leaves early in the morning (I am thinking 8AM). I did almost the exact trip you are planning in 10 days and it was non stop. 12 days gives you a bit more freedom but even so I'd skip Morocco this time out and spend more time in Spain.

Thank you all. We are skipping morocco and trying to fly into Lisbon and then take the night train to Madrid. If you have good and reliable hotels and bb address please post . Thank you all. Getting more and more excited about the trip.

In Lisbon, we stayed at Casa Florescente (breakfast included) which is centrally located (2 min walk to the Metro). While in the city don't forget to try their specialties, bacalao dishes, Pasties de Belem, etc. Also get on the funicular (walking distance from Cas F.) Bulls don't get killed in Portugal's bullfights. When in Madrid, plenty of reasonable lodgings like Hotel Europa in Pza. del Sol. I heard Hotel Acapulco has more reasonable rates and good accomodations as well. Check RS guide, it has plenty of tips for Madrid. If visiting del Prado museum, depending on your interest, you can save if you come in late in the day, it's free after 5:00 PM on Sundays. (check their website for details). Also go for the 'churros con chocolate' at San Gines and the 'bocadillo de calamares' at the Plaza Mayor. Did a day trip to Segovia while in Madrid and enjoyed it.