Spain to Italy in May '08 - Need itinerary suggestions please

In France, stop at and enjoy the town of Narbonne. It is on the line from Barcelona to Milan. Avoid Marseilles- it is dirty and has little to offer. Altho we have not gone there, we hear much good about Arles.
Italy has a lot to fill your plate. If you have not been, go to Lake Como ( 40 mins north of Milan) for the scenerey and rest. Verona and Bolzano are not to be missed,the former for its colisseum and walls and the latter for the "Iceman" in its museum and the mountain views.Also, when in Bozen(Bolzano), be prepared to speak German before Italian (tho English is widely spoken). We dont know what your rzn is for leaving Rome out but you seem to have time enuf for her.
Unless you must see Switzerland, we would advise saving it for another trip. This gives you plenty of time in each place.

Thanks for your reply.

I'd love to see Rome, but I don't feel like doing the night-train/day-trip/night-train which seems to be necessary due to the crowding. I spent 2 great days in Gimmelwald last time, so I don't need to see Switzerland on this trip.

Basically, I'm trying to parcel my time out evenly over the trip and maybe leave a little extra time for surprises. Ideally, I'd like to string together stripped down versions of the individual country tours.

I spent 7 weeks in Europe this fall. I spent a month in southern Spain. Great villages to see. I flew into Zurich but took a train (1 hour) to Lake Constance. I actually stayed in Friedrichshafen. This area if wonderful. It borders on Austria, Germany, Switzerland. I rented a bike to ride around the lake. It's beautiful. There are lots of little villages and winery's as you ride. I highly recommend.

Spain - Barcelona - By all means. Las Rambalas, full of people and excitement. Catedral Hotel,[ www.barcelonacatedral.com ] near the Catedral of course and the Gothic Quarter. Castell d' Emporda [ www.castelldemporda.com ]...a couple of hours east of Barcelona as I recall. Small village of Pal, 11th century or so Moorish tower. Excellenet restaurants.... Arles, van Gough's garden at the Hotel De Dieu.... Salvaord Dali house and Museum - Casa Museu Salvador Dali, Port Lligat- small sea coast village, and very interesting.

France - Caux (near Pezenas)Stone House B&B [ www.thestonehouse.com ] great B&B in rural area of the country. Montpellier - nice to spend a day in, much better than Marseille! Vasion La Romain, north of Avignon, excellent Tuesday Market, Le Eveche B&B in the citie medieval is a great accommodation.

Nice - nice for a sea coast city. I would recommend renting a car, you will be able to see more! and get a train for some of the trip as well.

In Spain I'm thinking of hitting the Madrid/Toledo region, as well as Tarifa (I want to visit or at least be within photo range of the rock of Gilbraltar - very touristy, I know), and Barcelona's on my way so may as well make that a stop - Is there any way to fly into Tarifa?

I'll probably skimp on Southern France, as Spain and Italy look like at least 4 weeks worth between them. However, I would like to stop someplace with a Mediterranean beach even if it's not Nice.

Thanks again everybody.

Mike...if you're in Tarifa, you won't see Gibraltar....there's quite a range of small "mountains" between it and Gibraltar. Algeciras is just across the bay from Gibraltar, while La Linea is the town that borders right on Gibraltar....if you're all the way down there, then you might as well go to Gib itself. No, no way to fly into Tarifa....train or bus (probably bus) are your best bets. If you're doing Madrid and Toledo, do Toledo as a day trip from Madrid, then head down to Cordoba and Sevilla...you have to go that way to get to Gibraltar/Tarifa anyway.

Thanks Norm.

I was thinking of flying into Málaga and staying at one of the towns which border Gibraltar, but as much as I want to see it, I'd rather not add 2.5 days to the trip.

I also thought it might be feasible to do a day-trip from Madrid, but even the AVE train takes a little over 6 hours 1 way to get to Algeciras .

Not really interested in the Cordoba for this trip, or traveling south from Madrid.

Ah well, I guess I can't get everything on the menu!

Thanks again.

You want beaches -- Barcelona has beaches. Also be sure to go up to Tibidabo to get a good view of the city.

The town of Collioure in southern France has a nice harbor, but it might be a little difficult to reach -- I don't know anything about the train service.

I would also recommend Montpeiller. I spent a weekend there when I studied in France. It's a pretty good-sized town, but it was a lot of fun. We took a bus to a beach on the Mediterranean.

Also, I loved Lucerne. I was there in December, so I'd imagine you'd have a much different experience, but it was beautiful and really enjoyable.

Here are a couple ideas for you and duable by train.
I was in Cinque Terre last year and loved it. I stayed outside of Manarola. The hike between towns is wonderful. Took a boat to Porto Venere. Loved Lake Como and stayed in Bellargio. Did you know there are 67 museums in Florence? Loved all of Florence. I have been to Italy around 6 time now and never get tired of going there. This May I shall go to Croatia, Austria and maybe to Italy. Can't tell you how many towns in Italy I have been too. If you need more info.. email me

I'm always amazed at how much help I get in this forum.

I'm hoping to firm up my plans for the Spain part of my trip in the coming week (and making hotel reservations, buying a eurail 3-country pass, and maybe even buying the first leg of my plane ticket). After that I'll be moving on to planning France (Nicole), and Italy (Virginia), but the information will certainly come in handy.

Thanks again everybody.

Still deciding on the middle part of my trip, but I'm thinking of ending with Rome then Venice (I'll be leaving at the end of May). Can anyone offer advice ?

Something along the lines of:

5/25
Florence (or another nearby region)->Rome, sleep Rome
5/26
Sightsee Rome, sleep Rome
5/27
Sightsee Rome, sleep Rome
5/28
Rome->Venice, sleep Venice
5/29
Sightsee Venice, sleep Venice
5/30
Sightsee Venice, sleep Venice
5/31
Venice->home, don't sleep at all

I'm sure I could save a couple of days by night-training, but I'm not comfortable bunking with 3 strangers.

Thanks.

• Mike.

Nerja on Spain's Costa del Sol is a perfect beach town. Smallish quiet town with old world charm with lots of great restaurants. Gives you some down time to enjoy the view of the Med and recharge. We stayed at the Parador right on the beach. It was very nice, not a castle or super chic, somewhat pricey but wow what views!

Don't know if you're planning to stop and visit the Tuscany area besides(Florence?)but I highly recommend Lucca. Very interesting city both for history and city formation. If you've never seen a "walled town" this is the one to visit. There are so many delightful towns, Sienna's cathedral is a must. I would skip Rome for another time, it is totally exhausting and takes alot of time to cover throughly. Also someone mentioned Lake Como, great idea, near Venice and offers you a chance to do a lake boat tour to visit many lovely towns and maybe see George Clooney! Oops that was my plan!

Hi Jacquelyn.

I think I have my Spain itinerary pretty much nailed down, but I'm still figuring out what I'll do in Italy.

I know I'll end up in Venice, and do the Florence region some time before that.

So far as Rome goes, the extra train trip and set of hotel reservations does not appeal to the lazy traveler in me. Right now I'm more inclined to skip Rome.

I'd need to decide on that before I make plans (hotel reservations) for Florence. Then maybe I can work back to Cinque de Terre or whatever schedule permitting.

Thanks.

• Mike.

Sounds like a fantastic trip! I love Spain!

If you can get to Girona in Catalonia, it is amazing, like Toledo only not touristy.

Think about Turin in northern Italy, another city off the beaten track. Have a blast!

Thanks. I'll probably do that if I skip Rome.

You're on the right track! Good destinations

The Algarve in Portugal (Salema)
Sevilla Spain (Flamenco & Bull fights if you're into them)
Madrid or Barcelona (tapas and live music)
Villefranche, France (perfect Mediterranean Beach town next door to Nice--but quainter and more authentic). Add a jaunt into Provence if you have time--I would recommend staying in Vaison la Romaine and Aix en Provence. I wasn't a bit fan of Arles--loved the Van Gogh angle and the Arena, but it was quite dirty. I had to watch my step at every turn. Ick!
Murren, Switzerland (the Alps)--wonderful if you have time
Cinque Terre, Italy (DON'T Miss it)
Lake Como, Italy (haven't been, but it seems quite like the Austrian lake district--if so, it's grand)
Florence, Italy (add a couple days and rent a car to drive through the nearby Tuscan hill towns)
Venice, Italy (you have to see it once)

This would give you a good mix. Also consider Sienna.

Thanks Kay.

Haven't gotten to the French itinerary yet. I'm sure it'll be fun, but my priority will be making time for Italy (Not that I have anything against France).

• Mike.

Just on Nerja - it is smallish - but not what I would call quiet. Maybe it is in the middle of winter but it is usually quite busy with tourists and any number of (mainly) British expats who live there or in the near vicinity.

It is lovely and worth a vist for sure.

Currently living in Italy and just got back from Spain. These links might help in your planning.

The English link for Renfe Trains in Spain
http://horarios.renfe.es/hir/ingles.html

The English link for TrenItalia trains in Italy http://www.trenitalia.com/en/index.html

Trains are the best way to tavel. Use the AMICA class fare in Italy (when available) and get 20% off your ticket, the only discount available to NON-EU citizens. (These must be bought at least 24 hours in advance!).

Good Luck!