Spain and Protugal Dash in 10 days - appreciate tips and must see locations

"Day trip in Portugal" -- I assume you mean from Lisbon. I'm not sure you need any other diversion but Lisbon for such a short time, but if so try Sintra and its castles.

Rail pass may not make sense, I'd wait on that decision until your itinerary is clearer.

If you do get a rail pass, you may find that a night train to Lisbon is more attractive than that bus. You would take the AVE back from Seville, which is doubling back but with a pass you don't care, then a night train from Madrid.

Good luck!

I'd avoid overnight bus or train with the kids. Probably better to take the bus from Sevilla to Faro, then take a break there for the day before heading to Lisbon. Train ticket prices within Portugal are inexpensive....more like a giant commuter rail system. You can also get cheap discounts on Spanish trains by reserving up to 62 1/2 days in advance at RENFE. Click on "Buy Tickets" at the center top. Check the prices, and you may find it'll be cheaper than a railpass.

OK, first mistake everyone makes....are you being honest with yourself? How many days do you REALLY have? Do any of your "10 days" include the day you arrive or depart? You can't count the day you arrive, after a red-eye flight from the US, you will be a zombie. The next day you and your kids will probably be half-zonked out, at best, but let's ignore that for now. The day you fly home doesn't count either.

Any day that involves long distance travel also is pretty much useless for much else (you MIGHT have half a day after traveling to sightsee if you're lucky; try to travel in the early morning). To avoid "losing" even more days to travel, minimize the number of days you're going someplace rather than being someplace.

I think you have time for 3 locations, maximum. That obviously includes Barcelona and Lisbon, both great places to spend a few days. To my eye, you really only have enough time for one more stop, and that should be someplace that allows you to efficiently connect Barcelona and Lisbon. That really only leaves you one choice: Madrid. Fortunately, it's a great choice.

Honestly, I don't think you can "afford" (in terms of time) any other stops.

Consider this itinerary:

Day 1: Arrive Barcelona. You're a zombie, accept it. At least you're a zombie in Barcelona. Wander around, sightsee, and try to stay awake.
Day 2 & 3: Enjoy two actual days in Barcelona.
Day 4: Fly to Madrid, enjoy a half-day in Madrid.
Day 5-6: Madrid
Day 7: Fly to Lisbon, enjoy a half day in Lisbon.
Day 8: Lisbon
Day 9: Day trip to Sintra (it's easy, take the train; great castles!)
Day 10: Fly home

Even if you fly home on "Day 11" I would just spend an extra day in one of these 3 cities, or MAYBE add a day trip from Madrid to Toledo or Segovia or maybe Cordoba. Save Seville for another trip.

There are cheap flights between Barcelona and Madrid, and Madrid and Lisbon.

Hope that helps. Good luck.

Thanks for great advise. Although I did not count the day we were flying out, I did count the day we arrived as we should there at 7:10 AM. But I get the point. I think I will pass on Seville. I am very curious to experience the "super fast trains in Europe" so will explore the AVE from Barcelona to Madrid - looks like it gets across in less than 3 hours.

a) What would you recommend a must see day trip out of Madrid if I have to experience some Spanish country side.
b) Is it advisable to guided tours in all three places (Barcelona, Madrid and Lisbon) or will we be lost without it.
c) If we take guided tours, any recommendation on on something that is compelling. Love history and like to see a lot, but would like to keep the kids entertained too.

Appreciate the inputs. Huge Thanks.

Check carefully - if you book far in advance, flights can be cheaper (or as cheap) as the trains. While the trains are comfortable and nice, you'll get there faster by air. But don't forget to figure getting to/from the airports, time for security, etc. Trains work direct between city centers. It might come down to about the same time & money - consider the convenience of the times of available flights/trains.

One can do a nice day trip from Madrid to any of the following:
Toledo (frequent fast trains, and a magical old city)
Cordoba (it's quite a bit further, but has fast trains, too, and one unforgettable sight - the Mezquita)
Segovia (now there's a new fast train, fairly close and easy - great roman aqueduct)
You'll want to do some research using Rick's Spain book to see which of these is most to your taste. I loved them all - tough choice, fortunately, no matter which one you choose, it'll be great. For your first trip, I'd probably choose....Toledo.

I've never felt any need to hire a guide on any trip I've ever taken. Everyone has different likes and dislikes, tough. I think with Rick's book you have all the guide you need. Finding your way around is an acquired skill to some extent, and depends on how well you can find your way around at home (some of us have it, some don't). Some feel getting a little lost occasionally and figuring out how to navigate in a foreign land is part of the joys of travel.

You and the kids should find plenty of history - it's everywhere in Spain and Portugal. These are 5-star, world class cities you're going to...great stuff there, you'll love it.

PS: Be sure to take the kids out for churros and chocolate for breakfast in Madrid...you'll all remember it forever...maybe not the healthiest meal you'll eat, but it's a heavenly indulgence not to be missed.

Have fun - you will.

Please avoid overnight train/bus when possible.

I just returned from a grand one-month European tour and have learned (amongst many things) to avoid night trains.

Though I paid $175 Euro (2 person compartment)from Rome to Paris, I now learn that I could have flown for a lot cheaper. Use Easyjet.com.

A friend only paid 3 euros!! Though there are hidden costs (extra $$ for luggages, at the end of the day, it is worth it!)

Plus, by staying in hotels, I would have access to proper toilets/shower in the evening/morning and a good night rest which is what you need when you do intense traveling.

At the least, this is how I am planning my future trips.

Thanks - I see that it is really good prices on Easyjet - Madrid to Lisbon for 20 Euros before all the fees. There is an option called Speedy Boarding - which costs additional $50. Can you please advise if that is useful and worth spending?

Appreciate all the insights.

Thanks.

Sorry. Don't know what "speed boarding" means. Maybe others can help :)

Don't know about "speedy boarding" but remember, the discount airlines are not making any money on those crazy low fares, so they look for (and invent) every opportunity to "up sell" extras. Like checked bags, or heavier bags, or water on the plane, or "premium" seating, or having the opportunity to beat the crowd when boarding the plane (presumably so one can grab a better seat). This "speedy boarding" is probably just an extra fee you pay to be able to board before all the non-speedy boarding cheapskates line up (or fail to form a line and just squeeze through a door).

We flew EasyJet from Madrid to Marrakesh in October 08 and did not pay for any extras, and had no trouble boarding the plane and getting two decent seats together. Personally, I would not recommend paying for special early boarding, seems unnecessary to me - just be aware of when the line starts forming and do your best to (politely) maneuver yourself for an advantageous position.

Our experience with EasyJet was fine. Just know about ALL their little (or not so little) extra fees.

With many discount airlines like Easyjet, there are no "reserved" seats.....the sooner you check in, the earlier you get to board and choose your seats. Now some of them (such as Easyjet) have introduced a fee that is supposed to put you at the head of the line. If you're not fussy about where you sit, it's not really worth it...especially on such a short flight. But be prepared for a stampede whenever you do board.

Since you like the idea of taking the AVE fast trains in Spain, you can get excellent discounts up to 62 1/2 days in advance, if you're sure of your travel dates. Click here to go to RENFE, the Spanish national rail service, and click on "Buy Tickets" at the top center of the page. I say 62 1/2 days, because they start loading new fares each day at midnight, Spanish time. That means you'll start seeing the new fares pop up shortly after 5 pm your time. You may have to wait an hour or two for them all to be loaded in, but you'll get a big jump on most Europeans, who will still be asleep at that time. Check some similar dates less than 62 days ahead, and you'll see some of the bargain fares available. You can print these tickets out at home.

We just returned from a 2-week trip to Spain with a 13 & 10-year old. We've travelled with them plenty when they were younger as well. With what you're currently planning, I have some advice that might help you salvage parts of your fly-in day in Barcelona...I find that with children, new forms of transportation are an event in themselves. In Barcelona, I'd recommend taking the bus to Park Guell at some point on your first day and letting your kids run around that wacky, wonderful park. You'll get great views of the city, visit an excellent Gaudi site,and get fresh air and freedom of movement after a long plane trip. RS's Spain tells you how to do it on bus (it gets you right there), instead of metro, and you see all the passing sites as well. Also, spend time on Las Ramblas as the kids will love the street performers, and in La Boqueria, where the food is fresh and fabulous and definitely a must-do destination. I believe the Museu Nacional d'Art is the one up on Montjuic....if you're there Thurs-Sun, go later in the day so you can see the Magic Fountains show outside the museum.
For Madrid, the key to the free entry into the Prado is to go later (if possible around 6:30pm on Sunday...no lines, little crowding compared to just after opening time at 5.) If you do still make it to Sevilla, I thought the river-front stuff was overrated but absolutely loved the old Jewish quarter near the Cathedral and Alcazar. Hope this helps as one parent who loves to travel with her kids to another!

I was in France and Italy last year with my 2 year old, and am planing a trip to Spain in September. It was my experience last year that Europe is a very family friendly place. We flew from Nice to Rome and did not have a problem with stampeeding travelers. Everyone was very polite and helpful.
Search out the big parks and squares. They are in every city and are a wondeful for the kids to play. Caroselles were everywhere in France and Italy, to my daughter's delight! Hoping to find some in Spain, too!
The best advice is to pack light, especially if you're planing on taking a train. The trains are not in the stations for long and it will be difficult to get the kids on board, along with a bunch of luggage. Some trains are 2 levels and you will be passing people trying to disembark. A difficult task with 2 children and your own luggage train...
We like to rent apartments, some have only a 1 or 2 night minimum, and are equally priced to the hotels. It is nice to have a fridge and microwave for leftovers, or early am snacks. Also gives you a chance to experience more of the "true environment," which is why we go to Europe in the first place, n'est pas?
History is everywhere, but I wouldn't push it with a 2 year old, no matter how well traveled or behaved. Leave time for silly fun and strolls through the parks. It is these memories of leisure times that I value most from our trip last summer.

Taking the fast train from Barcelona to Madrid is actually faster than flying but it is more expensive than a Spanair flight.

Actually, Ambrosia, if you book far enough in advance to grab one of their web discounts, the AVE from Barcelona to Madrid can cost as little as 44 Euro. The cheapest Spanair flight I've seen is 101 Euro, and even Vueling's cheapest, at 34 Euro, can only be found months in advance. With RENFE, it's 62 days in advance.

To David; Speeding boarding with Easyjet means that if you are in about the first 35 passengers, you are to board the plane first to choose your seats. After that its open seating for everyone. Frankly, I have flown many times with Easyjet and its just not worth the extra cost unless you want a particular seat to get off early to catch another flight. They board from back and front.

Museu Nacional d'Art de Catalunya in Barcelona. we were just there. the exhibit on church frescos from all over spain was OUTSTANDING!!!!

I agree with limiting the trip to Barcelona, Madrid, and Lisbon--and with choosing Toledo if you have time for only one day trip from Madrid. The hour-long tourist-train ride around Toledo would be fun for the kids while giving you a good overview of the city. In Madrid, a worthwhile "ride" for the kids is the hop-on, hop-off bus. It stops at the major plazas and museums, including the Prado, and at Retiro Park, where you can row the kids around the lake in a boat. We never waited more than 5-10 minutes for a bus, which is double-decker, open on top, and provides audioguides in multiple languages. Great transportation, educational, and fun.

Thanks for all the great advise - this is the coolest platform - I now have an itinerary structured. Any advise on good family/kids friendly accommodations is greatly appreciated.

Day 1 - Barcelona - fly-in - hotel – Thu night

Day 2 - Barcelona – hotel – Fri night

Day 3 - Barcelona – Madrid - hotel – Sat night (AVE train to Madrid)

Day 4 - Madrid – hotel - Sun night

Day 5 – Madrid – hotel - Mon night

Day 6 – Tue - Madrid (Toledo - Day trip) – Hotel – Tue night (is Toledo a good place to stay for a night of is it better to stay in Madrid)

(Fly Easyjet to Lisbon either Tue night or Wed morning)

Day 7 - Lisbon - Wed night

Day 8 - Lisbon - Thu night

Day 9 - Lisbon (Sintra - Day trip)- Fri night

Day 10 - Lisbon - Fly out

Thanks a million, again.

rk

Congrats on mapping out a plan :)

Onto the topic of Accommodation:

After planning and traveling for one month 2009 in Europe, I realize the importance of having good accommodation. This was my first time planning (I never made hotel reservations before!) and going solo abroad. I truly had no idea that accommodation can make or break your experience.

This is what I am doing for my Summer 2010 trip. I ordered RS travel guides (and am still waiting for them; I might use some of his suggestions) but I am definitely spending a lot of time researching places on my own.

Using google.com, I would type "Barcelona hotel tripadvisor" It would give you a list of hotels/BB/hostels. Don't be fooled by their prices. More often it is highly inflated. If you find a hotel that perks your interest, enter the name of the hotel onto google and try to find their website. Contact them and book with them directly. It is cheaper.

But I do use tripadvisor for the following reason:

1. To obtain a list of hotels in that region

2. I read the reviews. Some people will give high marks despite the fact "the room is dark, no AC, noisy" Everyone is different. What bothers one person will not bother you. Vice versa is true. I know people who do not mind spider webs, but personally, I cannot stand spider webs. Some hotels are family-friendly, while others are not. Some treat single travelers with fairness, while others do not. Finding accommodation within Your Budget And Your Preference is the time consuming part of planning...IMHO :)

We did Portugal and Spain in the spring. We flew Tapair from Lisbon to Sevilla. I'm sure they go the other way. But keep an eye on the fare. It was cheap one day and then several hundred Euros the next. But then it dropped back down. Ultimately we booked it for $205USD after conversion for two of us (total).
I've uploaded my copy of our itinerary, with costs, hotels, etc... which I worked from for our trip. You can access it and download it at:
http://tinyurl.com/lt5u7t
Feel free to download it and use as you like... If you REALLY like it, feel free to send me the total in the bottom right hand corner as there may be a few dollars or two outstanding!

We did Barcelona – San Sebastian - Roja - Leon – Santiago – Porto – Sedtra - Lisbon in one trip, which would be too much for your schedule. Any of these would be an excellent focus area for a side trip, but only one. You can see details of our trip and pictures at our blog at: http://gadtravel.blogspot.com

I have to agree with David, especially since you are flying into Barcelona, which is about as far away from Lisbon as you can possibly be in Spain. Personally, I'd skip Lisbon entirely and save it for another trip when you have more time. Barcelona itself is worth 3 days. If you take a train to Madrid, there are some wonderful sights nearby, enough to keep you busy for your 10 days filled with history and wonder. All of these are an easy distance: Avila, Toledo and Segovia. Avila has wonderfully intact ancient walls, Toledo is a protected heritage sight and full of El Greco paintings and Segovia has the wonderful castle which looks like something in a fairy tale where Ferdinand and Isabella lived. It also has an amazing Roman acqueduct that you can see for miles. I would visit Madrid and then take a train to Avila. Pick up a car rental there to visit the other cities and return to Madrid by train. Don't ever try to drive in or out of Madrid or any big city in Spain. I did that once and it was a mistake. The driving there is insane and there's never anywhere to park. You don't want to drag your little ones from hotel to hotel every two nights. When you do this, you only have one day left to sightsee, and you are constantly on the run. It's not fun and it's not worth the trip. Save Seville for the other trip when you visit southern Spain and Portugal. If you need any personal help just let me know. You could use a 3 day railpass for the trains Barcelona to Madrid & back, and to Avila. This would probably be a good deal, though I have to look up the current rates, and also save you from standing in lines at the train stations and trying to navigate the Castillian and the signs with two small children.

rk, I think your latest itinerary is great.

Personally, I liked Toledo better than Madrid, and nightime there is especially sweet once the tour buses leave at around 5, but I'm not sure I should encourage you to add another change of hotel to your already fast-paced plan.

If you are game, though, consider continuing there from Barcelona, so you go Barce-Tol-Mad-Lis, leaving from Madrid on Wednesday.