Smoking ban in restaurants and bars killed in Germany

It seems that they have left a choice. You can go to a bigger bar or pub that has a non-smoking area. Kind of lets us act like the adults that we are supposed to be.

Here in San Francisco, the city council is considering a law that Pharmacy's can no longer sell cigarettes. The reasoning is that pharmacys bill themselves as a place dedicated to health and selling cigarettes is not healthy.

I think that says it all. What next?

I hope they also allow live sex acts in bars and restaurants. That's freedom too, and far less harmful to the participants and and those nearby.

I have always prided myself on being German because I feel Germans are highly intelligent, but apparently, in Germany, like in the U.S., when they get on the high court, their brains turn to scheiß.

and this is for economic reasons????? The judges should have read all those reports showing that business increases when smoking bans are implemented. All those people who'd rather stay home than suffocating in smoke tend to go out much more whereas the smokers might retreat for a short while only to come back eventually in old numbers.

But this only works if the ban is universal. As long as there's a choice bars who ban smoking struggle to maintain business ....

Such a stupid decision :-(

And it would make such a big difference. My kids had no idea about the recent legislation. But when we looked for a place to have lunch at Frankfurt airport this June that was one of their first comments: "we can sit where ever we want and don't have to limit our choices!!!!"

Apparently the German Supreme Court has more respect for private property than we have here.

Bar, pub and restaurant owners should make the decisions; they made the investment.

I'm not a smoker. I owned a restaurant and it was non-smoking. The significant investment to build the place came out of my pocket. It was my investment, my place and should rightly be my choice who I want to serve and how. If I choose right, customers will come and I'll make a profit. If I don't, I'll need to figure out what and how to change to be successful.

My customers investment was limited to what they spent in my place (ultimately I had to please enough customers to keep me in business). My employees were getting paid to be there (and were guaranteed their pay before we got any). The government's investment was zilch. To think customers, employees and the government believe they have the right to "manage" my investment for me.

As you can see, it's a touchy issue for me but extends to our treatment of private property in general.

Maybe the right answer is for the government to reimburse owners for any lost business that comes from their well-meaning interference. In theory that would limit government meddling; in fact they would just pass the bill to the tax payer.

Obviously there is a limit, but the last time I checked smoking was legal. If eliminating smoking is so important, make it illegal. In the meantime, let's crack down on children smoking in and around public schools. The public has every right to manage those buildings.

Some of my best memories in Europe involve relaxing at bars while sipping wine and enjoying a fine cigar after dinner. I enjoy doing that in the US as well, although I have to go to Portland, Oregon to get my fix at a cigar bar (Washington state has outlawed smoking in bars, so we lost a lot of good stogie bars in Seattle).

While I'm sympathetic to those who don't like smoke, I think it is unfair to create blanket bans like this one. A bar owner should be able to make the choice to ban smoking in his or her establishment. Perhaps some sort of tax credit can be given to banning establishments, or to smoking places that install filters and fans? If a choice is offered, some bars will ban, and some won't. That way, each party has a place to, well, party.

I suppose there's a bigger issue here: does one believe in legislating everything in order to create a "safe" society, or should there be some outlets, a la the Amsterdam model? Obviously, alcohol consumption messes up a lot of people - with that in mind, should Prohibition be reinstated? Personally, I'm more in favor of the A'dam model.

In the memory of the late comedian George Carlin:

"Sure, go ahead and smoke, but do you mind if I Furz ?!

In USA Today:

Soctland Smoking Ban Credited with Fewer Heart Attacks

However, I'm also concerned with precedent. First no smoking laws. Now we're seeing no trans fat laws. What's next...militant vegans getting meat banned? Evangelicals outlawing alcohol--again? The EU forcing food growers and makers to conform to one set of rules which would destroy all individuality.

Why not leave it up to the owners of the establishment. Just make them put up a sign outside so people will know what they're getting.

NOt a smoker, but, I have to agree, if a restaurant owner( note word OWNER) wants to do a certain thing with his or her own property,, then that should be their right. You have the right to not go there.

I personally get tired of non smokers( of which I am one ) bleating on about their rights, if you don't like it , go somewhere else.

PUBLIC places ,, such as train stations etc, should be smoke free as everyone uses those facilities .

First no smoking, next no trans fat, next no alcohol, next no red meat, next no.... You get the idea.
I don't think the government always needs to look out for our own good...we do.
Business owners along with suppy/demand should decide not politicians.

The ruling is a bit of a mix according to Spiegel:

http://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/0,1518,569305,00.html

Spiegel seemed to think that the complete ban by Bavaria will stand as it has no exceptions.

"The laws in Berlin and Baden-Württemberg failed to hold up because they made exceptions: They banned smoking in restaurants and bars, except where the owners could build non-smoking sections."

This would give competitive advantage to larger establishments that could have their cigarettes and smoke them too.

I was looking forward to no smoking establishments but learned to live with smoking in Germany long ago.

Regards, Gary

Eventually we'll have the "McScale". You stand on it and they tell you what you are allowed to order.

Restaurants and bars operate on licenses granted by the government. They can have their licenses revoked if they do not conform to standards of health. If they have a filthy kitchen, they can lose their license. If you sell food and drink to the public you have to operate by the rules.

When they eliminated all smoking in bars and restaurants here in SLC, several owners asked for an additional designation: a smoking club. I would support that. I am still glad that they do not allow smoking in restaurants that sell food and are licensed by the state.

Regards, Gary