Late Winter Trip with kids in Germany, Austria and ???

Your Germany travels will be cheaper by car - the "Bayern Ticket" (daypass) is 27 Euros per day per group of 5 and good on the regional trains, s-bahn and u-bahn, and buses in Bavaria - no driving hassles, lots of room, use the restroom at will.

This map shows the train lines - many of the RR towns are connected by train but not all - but then it's not really necessary to see ALL the RR towns, and there are many other worthwhile towns off the RR that the trains will take you to (Bamberg, Nuremberg, Weissenburg, Regensburg, and Eichstaett come immediately to mind.) Trains are frequent and dependable.

www.bahn.de/regional/view/mdb/pv/planen_buchen/liniennetzkarten/2007/MDB32333-streckenkarte_bay_feb_2007.pdf

Suggest picking maybe 2-3 base towns in Bavaria and rent a vacation rental for a few days in each town - much more roomy and relaxing for a family than just a couple of rooms. We rented once in Neustadt and daytripped to Rothenburg, Nuremberg, and Würzburg.

When my friends visited Germany several years ago, they signed up for a day trip to Venice--so it probably isn't too much out of the way. I think that there's plenty to see and do in Germany/Austria for 10 days. However, if you don't plan on going back to Europe with your kids, I think it's reasonable to push on to Venice.

Traveling by train is definitely more stress-free when the weather is iffy. Several years ago on a trip to Berlin we took an overnight trip to Gorlitz. We were debating about driving and opted to take the train. As it turned out, it snowed those days. When we were enjoying the beautiful snowy scenery from the train, we were quite happy that we were not driving.

OOps... I meant to say your Germany travels will be cheaper by train.

We drove the area. We left Salzburg in the AM drove through Hall, walked around ate lunch, through Innsbruck, Brenner Pass and stopped for night in Verona. Everyone (self, spouse, 16, 12 and 8 year old) enjoyed the Coliseum, Roman wall, and old section of Verona. We skipped the Romeo and Juliet stuff.

Next day we drove to Venice. Much better to park on mainland and train to Venice if driving, we wasted hours and hundreds of Euros to get a parking spot. Everyone enjoyed taking the Vaporetto, walking the city, feeding the pigeons in St. Marks, cathedral. Spouse and I really enjoyed walking in the evening and finding a nice cafe for quiet dinner. Be sure to see St. Mark's Cathedral when the lights are on inside (one of the most amazing sites I've seen).

For lodging in Venice we called Hotel d'Art and told them we were five. We had a two bedroom apartment with kitchen. It wasn't decorated wonderfully but it fit our needs well, was clean and the price was great.

I found driving for five was much cheaper than train. The cheaper passes for five are for local trains. They are nice for touring an area (stops everywhere, get on/off as desired) but not practical for covering distances.

Re: the cost of trains... The high-speed IC and EC trains are not included on the Bayern Ticket and are generally pricey. However, the trains that are included on a Bayern Ticket can often be used to travel good distances, depending on your destination, at minimal inconvenience and tremendous savings; the "RB" trains are the milk-run variety and do stop everywhere, but the "RE" trains - "regional express" - are also ok with the Bayern ticket and great for a route like Munich-Salzburg. The high-speed IC at 10:22 takes 1 hr. 41 min. and costs 28 Euros per person. The RE at 10:48 takes 1 hr. 53 min. and costs 27 Euros for an entire family of five. For Nuremberg-Munich, the IC takes 1 hr. 5 min. and costs 47 Euros per person; the RE takes longer - 1 hr. 45 min. - but again costs only 27 Euros for the family.

So yes, for a family, the car is usually cheaper than walking up and buying full-priced tickets, but savvy train travelers can do very well - and avoid the hassles of driving.

We traveled with our four kids (20, 18, 16, 14) this past summer for 30 days in Europe and we were never bored. Turn off the electronics, watch and absorb culture, and return home a changed person. Our 18 year son picked Venice as his favorite spot of the trip. A great city to let your teenagers roam freely in by themselves if you are needing a break from so much togetherness. Just getting lost in the narrow streets was a highlight. Venice is just so different from any other place. Park your car in Mestre at the parking garage across from the train station and enjoy a hassle free trip into Venice. We rented a van for our entire trip; a choice we don't regret as it gave us flexibility to travel down the less traveled routes. We spent time hiking to and around castle ruins in Germany and Austria, which may not work well in March, but would be worth considering if the weather is cooperative. Dachau is sobering and worthwhile. Salzburg is lovely. Enjoy every minute!

Just be prepared to drive in snow in Germany and Austris and No. Italy. It is the Alps, after all.

Thanks everyone! Here's what we are thinking - any feedback is appreciated! DAY 1- Arrive FRA, train to Nurnburg (21 y/o daughter lives outside Nurnburg). Afternoon w/ her showing us around. DAY 2 - Around Nurnburg. DAY 3 -rent car, drive to Rothernburg - family wants to spend 1 night here, do the Night tour, etc. DAY 4- continue down RR towards Munich, stop a couple places. DAY 5-Around Munich, DAY 6-Dachau, around Munich. DAY 7-day trip from Munich to castles - or would it be worth moving everyone to stay down there 1 night? DAY 8-to Salzburg area to see city, Eagle's Nest, etc. - What else? Ice Caves? DAY 9-either stay in that area or head up to Prague for 1-2 days. DAY 10 - Stay in Prague or back to Nurnbg. Need to be back in FRA on night of DAY 11 for early morning flight the next day. Son wants to go to Italy but then we would need to eliminate the Salzburg/Prague options I think, to make it worth while to get down there. Other suggestions? Esp for the kids? Thanks.

I forgot to add that we would probably drop off the car in Munich and then take the train from there. The Bayern day pass sounds like a great deal.

In Berchtesgaden the salt mines were a hit with the whole family.

We drove some of the RR from Wurtzburg toward Reutte with a night in Rothenburg. Nightwatchman's tour was also a hit. After Rothenburg, the family wanted to take the faster road to Reutte.

Even in mid October, there were crowds at the castles. Happily we arrived first thing and got early tours.

It was unusually cold so we stopped at a dept. store in Munich and picked up knit caps, scarves and gloves (affordable souvenirs) to augment our three-season packing.