Itinerary Help: France and Italy for 15 Days

You seemed fairly definite about flying into Paris and out of Milan. Given that, a problem arises with doing Rome, as it is several hundred miles south of Milan, and definitely not "between" Paris and Milan. I would suggest that you play with an itinerary starting with Day 15/Leave for US from Milan and work backwards (you need to be in a hotel near Milan for the night of Day 14, for example) to your starting point Day 1/Arrive in Paris. Now given jet lag, day 1 is always something of a wash-out. It is a good day to do a lot of walking, a lot of outdoor activities if the weather cooperates and leave heavy-duty sightseeing for the next day. So that leaves something like this Day 1 arrive in Paris, transfer to hotel, relax Day 2, 3, 4 Paris with perhaps a daytrip to Versailles Day 5 through 9 Open Day 10 arrive Rome Days 11, 12, 13 Rome Day 14 Rome to Milan via Florence Day 15 fly home from Milan
So you really only have 5 days to fill. Why not Avignon for Provence, and then hop to Nice followed by an Easyjet flight to Rome? Actually if you don't have the airline tickets, you might rethink all the big cities, as your expressed interests seem to lie more in the direction of charming villages. Anyway, hope you have a wonderful time!

Thanks so much for your quick reply, Roe. The flights from SFO were booked with miles, so we had to be a bit flexible on where we flew in and out of. Milan wasn't the ideal departure city, but when the flights are virtually free, you can't complain too much :) Your idea of an easyjet flight from Nice to Rome might just be the solution we're looking for! I looked into Avignon and it looks amazing, but I'm worried that many of the great things to do in the area will require a car. Do you think it's easy to experience the city and surrounding areas without the need for a car?

Wow, this is tough! First of all, in 15 days, do not try to see too much. A few days in Provence would be agreeable that time of year, and enroute. I'd stay in Arles. Lots to see in town served by rail (Arles, Nimes, Avignon, plus Orange and Isle Sur la Sourge), and there are buses. Unfortunately the train from Provence to Italy is killer. On such a short itinerary it's an argument against the South of France, all together, unless you can get a cheap flight to Rome or Milan from either Marseilles or Nice. The train is about 12 hours to Rome, a little less to Como. It's actually a little quicker from Paris. I would save yourself a day and fly home from Rome instead of having to hoof it up to Milan. With only 15 days, why waste one of them?

Adam - what do you think about going straight from Paris to Laussane or Geneva via TGV, then to Italy? Seems like skipping the south of France might alleviate some of the issues.

You have gotten good replies. And I'm glad to hear that your flights were dictated by mileage availability and not your choice (we see so many people who, for instance, want to see Prague and Budapest, but booked RT to Frankfurt "because it was cheaper"). Given that, I think you have two sensible options: 1. After Paris, use trains to go south in France (Lyon to Provence to Riveria) and then into Italy, ending in Milan (Venice would be out of the way in your time frame).
2. After Paris, fly to Rome, then work your way north in Italy to Milan (Venice could easily be included, as trains from Rome to Venice and then from Venice to Milan are fast). So, you should decide if you want to focus on France or on Italy, and plan accordingly. continued..

continued.. I don't drive, and have been to some of your possible cities. I loved Lyon and didn't care for Dijon (others like it a lot, but for me, 2 days was about a day and half too much, and that included a day trip to Beaune). I liked Nice OK (again, not as much as others); I didn't care for most of the French Riveria, but found Monaco more interesting than most do. I found Marseilles very interesting for 2 days, but I found very little English there (my French got much better in my time there); I think it would be frustrating for someone who only spoke English. It's certainly the antidote to polished, "touristic" places. I saw "urban" Provence (no car means no villages or rural areas); really liked Arles, loved Nimes, liked Avignon, loved the Roman Theater in Orange (but the rest of Orange is skippable), found Aix merely OK. For Italy, Varenna on Lake Como was lovely and very restful. If you can't spare at least 2 nights, though, don't bother. The whole point of the lake is relaxing, not "sightseeing" in the standard sense. I didn't like Bellagio (reminded me of French Riveria towns, which as I said I also didn't like). You already know you love Venice. If you fly to Rome, Florence, Lucca (my favorite over Siena or Pisa), Ferrara (between Bologna and Venice, and criminally overlooked), and Padova are all wonderful stops. One man's opinion, for what it's worth.

Caitlin, One point to mention to begin with..... "We're going to skip CT on this trip, due to the floods." Three of the five towns were not affected by the floods, the "old town" section of Monterosso is pretty much back to normal and many businesses in Vernazza are now open for business. Most of the trails are open, except for the Vernazza-Corniglia and Corniglia-Manarola sections (those may open sometime soon). Given your criteria of no more than four stops, would you prefer two locations in France and two locations in Italy, or does it matter? Would you like to include at least one location in Switzerland? Here's one possible plan.... > Day 1 - depart U.S. > Day 2 - arrive Paris > Days 3-5 - touring in Paris > Day 6 - EasyJet flight to Rome > Day 7-9 - touring in Rome > Day 10 - train to Orvieto or Siena > Day 11 - Orvieto or Siena > Day 12 - train to Varenna on beautiful Lago di Como > Day 13, 14 - tour Varenna, Bellagio or other locations on the lake > Day 14 (afternoon) - train to Milan, tour Duomo and Galleria Vittorio Emmanuele (possibly do some shopping in the posh La Rinascente stores prior to the trip home - they're right across from the Duomo) > Day 15 - train or Shuttle to MXP for the flight home There are lots of different ways you could arrange a trip of 15 days. This is only one suggestion. Another option would be to travel from Paris to Lucerne by train, and travel from there into Italy. I'd have to spend some time working out the details. Good luck with your planning and happy travels!

I like Ken's suggestion to include Lake Como. I have made that trip and it's fantastic. If you decide to spend some time around Nice, you can go to Venice on an overnight train. We did that and it was pretty easy to go to sleep in Nice and wake up in venice. Enjoy the trip!

A lot of good advice here. I think Harold has some very good ideas. And as to going from Paris to Geneva or Lausanne and skipping the south, that might be a good idea, but if you do something like that, consider adding Annecy to your itinerary. You can get there from Geneva pretty quickly by bus, and you don't need a car in Annecy. And from Annecy it's not far to Lyon by train, and Lyon is a great city. If you want to read a little about Annecy, as well as Lyon, here's a link to a blog I wrote: http://www.mainelywinenews.blogspot.com/
(Annecy is covered in all 3 years (2009, 2010, and 2012), and Lyon in 2010).

I really appreciate everyone's thoughtful input. Lots to think about! Looking closer, we actually have 16 days to fill, with a more detailed itinerary below. The question now, I believe, is just where we want to go in the South of France and where we'd like to see in the middle/North of Italy before returning to Milan. Day 1 - arrive Paris Day 2-4 - Paris Day 5 - Paris - Southern France via train, spend night in Southern France (Avignon or Arles) Day 6-7 - So. France (Avignon or Arles) Day 8 - So. France - Rome via easy jet, spend night in Rome Day 9-11 - Rome Day 12 - Rome-Siena via train, spend night in Siena (or other northern/centrally located Italian city) Day 13-14 - Siena Day 15 - Siena-Milan via train, spend night in Milan
Day 16 - depart Milan

"what do you think about going straight from Paris to Laussane or Geneva via TGV, then to Italy?" This is logistically a little better, by about 3 hours. (Still a long travel day though.) My own objection is that these destinations do not hold a candle to Provence or for that matter many more places than you have time to see in Italy. But chacun a son gout. You might weigh this option against simply flying or taking a night train to Italy from Paris. Sienna and San Gimignano give a nice, non Florence taste of Tuscany that is accessible by rail and bus. You could travel Venice > Tuscany > Rome if you fly out of Rome, or Rome > Tuscany > Milan otherwise. But if Laussane or Geneva are really calling to you, go.

I don't see anything wrong with the other suggestions. There are just so many possibilities. But you say you like wine, food, biking and wandering. I'd go with that. If that's the case, you want to spend less time in Paris, don't bother about Rome and spend your time in Provence and Tuscany. Days 1-2 Paris including the day you land Days 5-9 French countryside Days 10-14 Tuscany and Cinque Terre 15-16 Milan and travel too Milan. Or plan on one full day each in Paris and Rome (fly between them and spend part of that day one place or the other) and spend the bulk of your time in Umbria and Tuscany. I love Rome. But it's a museum and church city except for the ruins. It's less comfortable for strolling than Paris.

Caitlin, I think your latest plan is looking pretty good. Easyjet to Rome solves a lot of problems.

Caitlin, I have read with interest your initial post and the replies. I will take a very contrarian view. I think that your original ideas contained better choices given your reluctance to drive. I would not recommend either Provence or Tuscany without a car, when compared to your original options. If you will never drive in Europe and your original proposals are not that firm, then fine. If not, I would go Paris, Rome, Venice, Como, Milan. It appears that the train from Paris to Rome takes a minimum of 10 hours, so I would look into inexpensive flights. Trains should be very convenient from Rome for the rest of the journey. Follow your instincts; don't stop in Florence. Unless you are a real fan of art museums, you may find Florence somewhat disappointing.

It doesn't look like you're planning to go anymore, but Marsielle was the first place I ever went to in France, speaking not a word of the language but "bonjor" and "oui" (to be honest, my current state isn't much better) and I had absolutely no problems. I mean, I embarrassed myself frequently and not everyone spoke English...but it's the same way in Paris. Marsielle isn't everyone's cup of tea, but I wouldn't let a language issue deter you.

Caitlin, your latest plan looks pretty good. However, keep in mind that the Easyjet flight to Rome leaves from Nice, and Nice is about a three hour train ride from Avignon or Arles. You would need to plan for getting from A or A to Nice. Consult the DB train schedules to see how they coordinate with the times of the Easyjet flights.