Germany train and bus questions

The best way to get to the Regional train station in the airport from Terminal 2, is to take the Sky Train. I just did this earlier this week and timed it. To go from the "Meeting Point" near the arrivals gates in Terminal 2, entering the monorail and then all the way to the Regional train station, took me all of 6 minutes, total.

After you get off the plane, you go through passport control, pick up your luggage if you have it and then emerge into the main area of Terminal 2. This whole procedure should only take about 30 min. depending on if you have to wait on luggage.

Emerging into the main area, sort of walk straight ahead to the Sky Train signs, you will take an escalator up to this. One comes every 2 min. Get on, ride 1 minute, get off and take the escalator down to the main level. Follow the signs to the Regional Bahnhof or train station. This will bear off to your right. Finally, you will take the escalators down to this train station area. If you should take the wrong set of escalators down, it is not a problem, as you will probably find your self near the arrivals gate B-1. Just take the escalator here down one level. Again, there will be signs everywhere showing the way.

Your train will be on tracks 2 or 3 which are next to each other. The Deutsche Bahn counter opens early in the morning if you need to have your pass validated here.

Continuing: How does the Rhine scenery from St Goar to Boppard compare with Bingen to St Goar? Is it worth the effort to do this on our one day in St Goar or would it be better to go back towards Mainz and see a particular town or castle? I know they are all beautiful, but with limited time is there one or two that are in the catagory of "What! You went to the Rhein and didn't see ______?" We already plan to see the castle ruins in St Goar that day.
Is the KD reliable? If it says it will leave St Goar at 10:30 (earliest time) and get to Lorch at 11:40, will it probably make it on time?

Do Regional Express and Regionalbahn trains have 1st class cars?
I did see mention that Rothenburg and Nuemburg are supposed to be on the same local system and there is a local pass for about 14.5 euros for 5 people. Does anybody know about this pass?
Otherwise, going from Nuemburg to Rothenburg ob der Tabor should definitely be a Bayern Pass day which from what I understand we buy at ticket machine for $27 or $28 and sign it and then all 4 of us just get on, with the ONE pass, any train with IRE,RE,RB or S in name for the whole day (except weekdays start after 9am). How can the train afford for this pass to cover 5 people for such a small fare when the smallest distance usually is 25 euros and up per person?

Continuing: On other days we will be going to Fuessen and Garmisch-Partenkirchen so these would probably be logical Bayern Pass days instead of Flexipass days for 4 persons. I am seeing buses such as Oberbayernbus 9606 leaving Fuessen at 8:05, 12:40, 16:05, and 17:15 on Saturdays going to Garmisch. Are these buses included in the Bayern Pass or do we have to buy these tickets in addition to the Bayern Pass if used on the same day.

Another connection I just have found is Bus 74 (not on any bus schedule I have found yet except bahn.de) leaving Fuessen at 14:00 and arriving Reutte Bahnhof, Osterreich at 14:47. Supposedly 3 min walk to train station where train leaves at 15:03 as R5489(to Griesen(Oberby))and then becomes RB5489 to Garmisch arriving at 15:59. Again does anybody know if the bus part of this is included in the Bayern Pass? I think the train should be but would like verification if anybody knows.
For the moment, my final big question is whether anybody has been on the Expressbus from Nuemburg to Praha that is currently replacing the trains that I was told they were working on? (example: Bus 1061 leaving Nuebmerg Hbf (Bahnhofvorplatz Hauptausgang) at 12:41 on Sep 14.) I want to know what the configuration of the seating is. The literature calls it a double decker bus, but it says how much better the first class(14 seats) right behind the driver can see because of the front window. Second class evidently goes up a stair that makes them sit higher so they can not see through front window, but if they are higher do they have better views from their elevated seats? Is there not a window to the front up higher? Is it a true double decker bus or just staggered from bottom 1st to top 2nd class? Could someone help me understand please. I am trying to assure myself that 2nd class doesn't have a better view up above even if the seats are smaller.
Is the place where the bus leaves outside the Nuemberg Hbf really close and easy to find?

Jo,
Thank you so much. This was the detail I was hoping to get especially for the airport when we first landed. I know that we could run around and find our way eventually, but I know we are going to be punchy after nonstop flight and your instructions will be printed and taken with us. I feel a lot more confident now that we know where to go and we might actually make the connections I hoped to make. Again, thanks.

Can't help with too many of your questions, but for the Rhine a little bit.

No, the boats do not fill up. Going north on the boats is faster than going south. With a Rhineland-Pfalz ticket group ticket for 5 people, you can ride up and down the Rhine.

Personally, I like the Marksburg castle in Braubach. This is near Koblenz. English tours are at 11 and 16:00.

There are lots of small towns all along the river. By riding the trains, you can get on and off all your want all day long, any time you see a place that interests you and your group. If you go up one side of the river and back down the other, you get to see all the same castles as you do on the boat, just that you have a bit more freedom to get on and off and the trains come by every half hour at least, in either direction.

CJ - the train you are planning to take to Bingen at 09:23, goes directly from the airport to Bingen. You do not need to take an S-bahn to Mainz, nor switch trains anywhere. As I said in my earlier post, this train will go through from tracks 2 or 3. Most of the trains do require a switch, but no all of them.

The only station in Frankfurt (not -fort) airport you need is the Regionalbahnhof. It is under the building across the access road from Terminal 1. You get to it by going down stairs or escalators just inside the streetside wall of the terminal, then through a mall under the street. There will be signs. One of the signs will probably be a large green circle with a white S, for S-Bahn (but I don't think that is what the 'S' on the map stands for). The Reisezentrum (ticket counter will be to you right going in. Look for the red 'DB' symbol. You can validate your pass there, in the Regionalbahnhof.

You want to go to Mainz. All trains (S-Bahn and Regional) going to Mainz leave on track (Gleis) 3. If you can tell the difference (it's on the schedule board) you want S8, not S9. The S8 should come every 30 min, at 29 and 59 past. If you take the S8 at 29 past, you'll have lots of time in Mainz to catch the train to Bingen; if you get the S8 at 59 past, you'll only have 5 minutes to catch the regional train. It leaves on track 11, which does not go completely through the station and is not with the other tracks that do. Track 11 is across the platform from track 1, which should be the track on which you come into Mainz Hbf. It's near the opposite end of the station from where you come in.

There are two stations in Bingen, Bingen Stadtbahnhof or Bingen Stadt Bhf and Bingen Hbf. You want Bingen Stadt. According to the Bahn, it's a 10 minute walk (couple hundred yds) from Bingen Stadt to the K-D dock. If you take the RE (4362), it only goes to the Bingen Hbf and you have to take a bus back to Bingen Stadt Bhf.

Jo,
Does the Rhineland-Pfalz pass cover only KD ships all day or are some of the other ship lines covered too? So if we bought one for 4 people for 28 euros on our non train pass day, we could use all train and at least KD ships for the day on and off along the Rhein? If we used that pass on our first day from Frankfurt, we would have to buy a single ticket from Frankfurt to somewhere in that district. Do you know which town is the first that is in the district of Rhineland-Pfalz?

Lee,
Thanks for the information.

To all,
Notice that I continued my questions onto two of the replies following my initial question. If possible I hope someone can help me with those issues also.

Mainz is in Rheinland-Pfalz, as is Bingen and St. Goar.

The airport and Wiesbaden are in Hessen.

It basically is everything between the Rhein and France down to beyond the Mosel.

A Rheinland-Pfalz-Ticket does not include travel on any boats (K-D) on the Rhein, except the Lorelei ferry from St Goar to St Goarshausen (you might get a 20% discount on K-D with it). Free use of K-D boats is included with a Eurail pass or a German Rail pass.

In my opinion, the best part of the Rhein is between St Goar and Bacharach. You get to see both the Pfalzgrafenstein, the midriver toll castle, and the Loreley. Do it from Bacharach to St Goar, with the current. It's awfully slow against the current. St Goar to Boppard you can pretty much see from the train (particularly from the left bank train).

Although larger towns with RE service have more than hourly trains, the RB trains that connect every town on the mittelrhein only come by once per hour.

All regional trains have 1st class.

Both Nürnberg and Rothenburg are in the same Verkehrsverbund, VGN (Greater Nürnberg, www.vgn.de). VGN has a group day ticket, called the TagesTicketPlus. It's €14,70 for up to 6 people, only two of whom can be 18 and older. If you buy the TagesTicketPlus on a Saturday, you can use it on Sunday, as well. If more than 2 or you are over 17 you will be better off with a Bayern-Ticket for €28.

Would the left bank of the Rhein be the St Goar or St Goarshausen side? All this information is definitely helping finalize plans. I think I have a much better grasp of what is going on around the Rhein area thanks to you all.

Does anybody know about buses being covered on the Bayern pass around Fuessen to Garmisch-Partenkirtchen or anything about the Express bus from Nuemberg to Praha?

All bus routes of the RVO (Regionalverkehr Oberbayern) that are entirely within Germany, Bus 9606 is one, are included with a Bayern-Ticket. You can find all of the bus routes of the RVO on their website, www.rvo-bus.de (except it is only in German).

Bus 74 is not included with a Bayern-Ticket (at least not in full) because it runs through Austria. However, the train that goes from Kempten to Garmisch-Partenkirchen via Pfronten and Reutte, is not connected to Austrian Rail and therefore run by German Rail. A Bayern-Ticket is valid on this route, called the Ausserfernbahn. If you take the 56 bus from Füssen Bahnhof to Pfronten, the route is entirely within Germany and is covered by the Bayern-Ticket. And Pfronten is a lot prettier than Reutte. Then take the train from Pfronten to Garmisch, also covered. You might have to change trains in Reutte. Note that the 9606 bus goes from the Füssen Bahnhof to Hohenschwangau before going to Garmisch-Partenkirchen, so if you have your luggage with you, you can go directly to Garmisch without going back to Füssen.

The Rhein flows from SE to NW. The left bank is looking in the direction of flow, so the left bank would be on the Bacharach, St Goar, Boppard side. Castles Cat and Mouse and the feuding brother's castles are all on the right bank. After Rheinfels, I don't think there is much on the left bank worth seeing from the water. However, Boppard is very pretty seen from the right bank or from the water.

"Nuebmerg Hbf (Bahnhofvorplatz Hauptausgang)" What part don't you understand. The bus leaves from the plaza in front of the station (Bahnhof Vorplatz). Go out the main exit (Haupt Ausgang). The correct spelling is Nürnberg or Nuernberg. French, Brits, and other illiterates call it Nuremburg.

Lee, Thanks for the details. Sorry about the misspelling, but in addition to trying to plan this trip I am dealing with an ill 83 year old mother and a sister-in-law unconcious in the hospital, etc. My messages are being written rather quickly. The question I had was if anybody has been on the Expressbus from Nuemburg to Praha that is currently replacing the trains that I was told they were working on? (example: Bus 1061 leaving Nuebmerg Hbf (Bahnhofvorplatz Hauptausgang) at 12:41 on Sep 14.) I want to know what the configuration of the seating is. The literature calls it a double decker bus, but it says how much better the first class(14 seats) right behind the driver can see because of the front window. Second class evidently goes up a stair that makes them sit higher so they can not see through front window, but if they are higher do they have better views from their elevated seats? Is there not a window to the front up higher? Is it a true double decker bus or just staggered from bottom 1st to top 2nd class? Could someone help me understand please. I am trying to assure myself that 2nd class doesn't have a better view up above even if the seats are smaller.

I've never been on that bus, so I can't comment on the seating, but I don't think the scenery between Nuernberg and Praque would be all that inportant.

However, I do know this, that bus is considered a premium "train" and there is a passholder reservation fee of €10 for a first class seat and €15 for a first class seat. Reservations are required. I imagine you could purchase the passholder reservation at a ticket counter or if the bus is not sold out, from the driver.

RailEurope sells passholder reservation for 2nd class only for $23.

There are three or four regional train connections per day from Nuernberg to Prague, but they take about an hour longer than the bus. If your railpass includes the Czech Republic, you would be covered all of the way - no surcharge for passholders.

Jo, read my posts. That 9:23 train, RE4362, does not stop in Bingen Stadtbahnhof, which is the station nearest to the K-D dock. It goes to Bingen Hbf, from which you have to come back to Bingen Stadt by bus. That's why I suggested they change in Mainz to a train going to Bingen Stadt. Of course, the RE does stop in Mainz, so they could transfer to the RB to Bingen Stadt there.

Jo and Lee,
I appreciate all the great input.

Lee - You say that going from Fuessen to Pfronten (Bus 56) to Garmisch is prettier than going through Reutte. Do you know how the scenery on the Bus 56 route compares to Route 9606 which leaves Fuessen at 17:15 and goes a northern route to Echelsbacher Bruecke and circles through Oberammergau Post and then Oberau and on to Garmisch-Partenkirchen?

It is a great idea to just pick up the bus at the castle and head to Garmisch, but unfortunately we will have all our backpacks which we can not take into the castles. To my knowledge the only place to safely store them is to pray there are storage lockers in the Fuessen Hbf. This requires we have to go back there. Great thought though. If you know of any place else to try, please let me know.

Jo and Lee - The details you both gave have helped me to get an idea of the layout of Bingen transportation. I see I have options. I had resigned to walking the 800m from Hbf to KD pier. I didn't know there was a bus. Does it only go train station to train station or around the town? I will need to check times more closely. If I cannot make the 11:30 KD ship, we will just go from Bingen to St Goar on the train. We will be too tired from international flight to push any further that day. We will be realistically be looking for sleep quick as possible. I will see how the Stadt train schedule compares to the Hbf.
I just realized that my Nuernberg to Rothenburg of der Tabor day is a Saturday. I think I would still use a Bayern Pass. Isn't the Happy Weekend Pass

Sorry, my daughter jostled my arm and accidently hit Post message.
As I was saying, isn't the Schönes-Wochenende-Ticket (Happy Weekend Ticket) used only if you are going across into multi Lander-states? If we are staying only in Bavaria, we would still use the Bayern Pass on weekends? When we buy Bayern Tickets in the machines are they called Bayern tickets and easy to recognize? Are we asked to lock in the date we will use the pass when we buy it? If we buy them ahead of time on bahn.de do they have us print the ticket by computer? or do they send them to us in US? Can RailEurope sell them to us in US?

Thank to both of you for your time in sharing your info. After these questions are answered, I will go back to the computer and start checking routes again for the time being and let you rest. Have a great day!

In 2007, I took bus 9606 from Oberammergau (Post/Bahnhof) to Wieskirche via Echelsbacherbrücke. If I had to say, I would say that the scenery was a little better than Füssen to Pfronten. Both just kind of rural roads, Voralpen, nothing spectacular. Whichever is faster, I suppose. There are lockers at the Füssen Bahnhof, but it kind of defeats the purpose if you have to go back to the Bahnhof and wait for the next bus. I've addressed this issue with the Hohenschwangau tourist office, and they told me someone could leave their bags in the TI office. When I was there in last September, I asked in the office and they showed me where someone could leave bags behind the desk. I haven't needed to try it.

See my webpage on going to the castles in Füssen.

I think the bus from the Bingen Hbf stops a little closer (5 min) to the KD pier than the Stadt Bahnhof. Look at the German Rail website. Click the '>' symbol to the left side to expand the connection, then click on the bus number link to get the actual routing of the bus. Or put in "Frankfurt(M) Flughafen Regional Bahnhof" to "Bingen KD" to see the best connection.

You're right, the only advantage to the Schönes-Wochenende-Ticket is if you are going through multiple Länder. Again, see my webpage for a view of a ticket automat. No need to purchase the Bayern-Ticket in advance. They don't sell out. It only takes a minute to buy one when you arrive at the station. Push the Bayern-Ticket button, select the number for Bayern-Ticket (full), not Single or Nacht, select the date on the calendar, put in your money.

Lee is right about the 2 stations in Bingen. Looking at the map and checking the connections, it still looks easier and faster to take the non-stop train from the airport to Bingen HBF and then take the bus to the other station. You will get there by 10:32, which leaves you plenty of time to get to the KD docks.

Jo and Lee, I feel I have been so enlighted. Of all the time I used the bahn.de, I didn't know it would go down to the town bus level. I am finding the detail level that I was striving for. This whole thread of discussion has led me to use the tools I had been using but at a deeper level. Thanks so much. Looks like in Lorch we will just have to walk but only 1/3 mile. But bus in Bingen is defintely a find. Looks like if I get off a the HospitalstraBe stop, we will be right acrossed from KD.

In Italy I was used to even the smallest train stations having 2 tracks that you had to get off and go down stairs, through a tunnel and climb back up stairs to get the the opposite track. Is it true that in Germany you can usually just walk across the tracks with no problem like so many here in US?
Also the website with pictures of the ticket machines and around the castles is most helpful. With all of this info and visuals I am definitely becoming much more confident of what we are doing and I will enjoy the trip more because of it. One question about ticket machines. The picture of the MVV autovat had a button for Bayern ticket and one for Regio-Ticket Bayern. What is the difference and which one is the 28 euro Bayern Pass?
The one disappointment that I have is that I envisioned at least one of the routes from Fuessen to Garmisch-Partenkirchen to be in the foothills of the Alps with maybe some Colorado type winding roads. Since you say it is not, I agree that the fastest way is the best. Is the terrain around Garmisch any more mountainous and pretty? What about the train ride from Munich to Garmisch? Is the ride from Garmisch to Innsbruck mountainous? Where are the pretty parts? I thought we were going to be at least at the edge of them.
Anyway thanks so much again. Both of you have helped answer questions I had almost given up on,but were necessary for me to plan. I will mull all this over for a while and test my new found skills and knowledge.

Also, after expanding the connection, there are symbols at the bottom for "Show map" and for "At the train stations". Click "At the train station", then "destination" and it will show you walking from Hospitalstraße to the dock, but on a straight line, not following streets.

I've seen very few stations where you could walk across the tracks. Most stations are like what you describe in Italy.

Get the "Bayern-Ticket", not the "Regio-Ticket" I think that the Regio-Ticket is a round trip ticket to anywhere within, ?, 100 km for a flat rate. Update: The Regio-Ticket Bayern is a round trip to someplace within 50 km in Bavaria, for one person for €11.

Look at the Pfronten website, and you can see what the terrain is like around that area. The train that goes from Pfronten to Reutte to Garmisch follows that river valley to the right. The route from Hohenschwangau to Garmisch is a little hillier, but you are not going to find Colorado type mountainous roads (I went over Brenner Pass last August, and by Colorado standards, it's pretty wimpy, but then, by Texas standards ....).

Garmisch-Partenkirchen is a little more mountainous, at least to the South. The Zugspitze, Germany's highest mountain at 9720', is right outside of town. There is a big mountain right outside of Mittenwald. Even in Mittenwald and Garmisch, you'll be surrounded by mountains but in the valley. The train from Mittenwald to Innsbruck goes over a mountain pass at Seefeld. I spent about an hour in Seefeld, but it was so overcast I couldn't see the mountain tops, but every direction looked like mountains going up.

If you are taking the bus(es) from the Bingen Hbf to the stop near the KD doc, make sure you know where to catch the bus(es). Bingen Hbf consist of a station building on an "island" between two sets of three tracks. The tracks come together just west of the station. On the east side, next to the river, there is a viaduct over some of the tracks connecting to a bridge (Brücke) over the river. There is a ramp from the station area up to the intersection of the viaduct and the bridge.

If you take the two bus connection from the Hbf to the Hospitalstrasse stop, I believe the first bus, bus 2, comes down the ramp to near the station building.

On the other hand, it looks like the direct bus, bus 231, does not come down to the station, but stops at the top of the ramp, at the junction (Abzw) of the viaduct and the bridge. You'll have to walk up the ramp to catch it. Hopefully someone at the station will be able to direct you.