Germany/Austria/Switzerland Itinerary

Elizabeth, As this appears to be your first trip to Europe, I'd highly recommend reading Europe Through The Back Door prior to your trip. That provides a lot of good information on "how" to travel well in Europe. I'll provide comments on your proposed Itinerary a bit later when I have a "normal" computer available (typing on an iPhone at the moment). Happy travels!

Thank you, Ken. I've spent most of the day looking through all of this website, and I plan to pick up one or two of Rick's books tomorrow. I will look forward to your advice.

Elizabeth, for days 4-7 I think you would have to choose between the Rhine/Mosel and Baden Baden. I think most people on this board would agree that the Rhine and Mosel and much more interesting. You description of days 8-12 is pretty open ended with numerous possibilities, but again I would say you should pick and choose. You could easily spend 4 days in Lindau exploring the Lake Constance area. A second possibility would be to spend them in Austria - split between Salzburg and Vienna or Salzburg / Hallstatt. Or third possibility would be skipping Austria and heading to the Berner Oberland in Switzerland for 4 days. My only other impression is that seeing Rothenburg, Wurtzurg and Nurnberg in 2 days would be rushing it a bit much. If you want to see Rothenburg you should plan on spending at least one night as that when it's at it's best IMHO. Seeing the sights in Nurnberg can easily fill one whole day. As most of your trip is in Germany a rail pass probably doesn't make sense. You can get great deals on regional tickets for groups of people that are generally a really great deal. Lee is our resident expert on this subject and he has a great website that explains all the nuances. Hopefully he'll chime in and add the link to his site.

I would skip Vienna unless your son really wants to show you specific things. I didn't care for Baden-Baden, but that's just my opinion.
Salzburg could be handled as a day trip from Munich if you are set on it. Since I spent 5 days there in Dec. and 9 days the time before that, I think it merits more time - perhaps better left for a future trip. I agree that you should spend a night in Rothenburg. The Night Watchman tour is fun and it is nice to see it after the crowds have gone. I especially like it at dusk or early in the morning. As mentioned, the group travel tickets are a great bargain and should be used at least when the travel distances are not too great. Look at www.bahn.de to get an idea of the times involved in your train trips. For the longer distance trains, purchasing tickets in advance is a great money saver.

I think your itinerary is overpacked and you're not really accounting for travel times. For instance, "Day 1" is the day you fly into Berlin, it's not actually a day IN Berlin. Ditto for Day 20. So you're left with 3 days in Berlin, which is fine, but make sure you think of it that way, not as "5 days in Berlin" which it is not. I would agree with others to skip Baden-Baden. It's out of the way wrt to driving or training and not exciting enough that it's worth going out of your way for on such a busy trip. Days 8-12 are a big problematic. I'd choose Salzburg, Austria/Brechtesgadenerland OR the Berner Oberland in Switzerland, but not both. Plug your potential travel locations into the Deutschebahn website so you get a realistic view of how long it would take to get from place to place by train and thus figure out how long you have "on the ground" in any location. Regional rail passes, as others have suggested, can work great for SOME of your travels but you're going to want to be on high speed trains that are not covered by those passes for other journeys. If you forget Switzerland and stick to Salzburg in Austria, a German Rail Pass might be the best deal in terms of TIME, money, and flexibility. It's not brought up on this board very often, but with the exception of Switzerland/Austria apart from Salzburg it will get you everywhere you're going on high speed ICE trains, without a need for a seat reservation, so maximum flexibility. And it's FAR cheaper than a 3-country Eurail pass. I don't see any major reason to rent a car for what you're considering. Cont.

As far as Vienna goes, I think it's fantastic and would hate to recommend skipping it, but I only think you should go if you're willing to cut other stuff from your trip. Dresden might be a prime candidate, as it's also somewhat of an outlier wrt distance/travel times. Personally I'd do Vienna and Dresden and skip Rothenburg and Wurtzburg, and do Nurnberg as a day trip from Munich, but my tastes are not everyone's. This is also the only portion where a car might make any sense at all, but given that point-to-point tickets purchased in advance OR the German Rail Pass are likely to be cheaper than car rental + gas (remember, it's nearly $10/gallon here) I'd personally get my fill of quaint medieval towns in the Rhine/Mosel region and skip Rothenburg and Wurtzburg entirely for your particular trip. While these towns are lovely, they are also not spectacularly different in terms of what they have to offer compared with any old German town. But I know many people disagree with me and absolutely LOVE Rothenburg odT. All I know is I've taken two groups of people there after having shown them similar old towns closer to where I live, and they wanted to leave after a couple hours. shrug

Wow - you have all given me a great deal to think about - thank you! I will definitely skip Baden-Baden, and will have to make some decisions of just what we would most like to see of Austria &/or Switzerland. Have any of you traveled extensively in northern Germany? Is there anything you would substitute in that direction for something I have planned? Again, as a first-time traveler, I want to get a sampling of the best that Germany has to offer. I appreciate all of your suggestions and advice.

I'm afraid I haven't traveled in Northern Germany with the exception of Berlin - maybe somebody else here can help you out? Berlin is fantastic though, however you end up reworking your itinerary, I'd suggest 3 full days (i.e. not travel days) in Berlin. 2 full days at the absolute minimum. You won't get bored. I've been for weekend trips 3 times and still haven't done any of the really big museums or the zoo!

Hi, To answer your question on travel in north Germany, I have traveled there extensively, basically, concentrated on it in my travels in Germany. First of all, you'll be at the new airport in July...Berlin Brandenburg. As suggested, I would skip Rothenburg (doesn't do anything for me), Swiss Alps. and Baden Baden. Save them for next time. Depending on your collective interests, see Berlin, Munich, and Vienna, and spend the rest of the time up north. Hamburg, Lübeck, Erfurt, Magdeburg, Potsdam, Bremen, Meißen, Dresden, Kiel, Leipzig, Jena, Rostock are well worth seeing. Unless you want to see certain small towns and villages near the big cities, such as Berlin, Dresden, Hamburg, I don't recommend getting a rental car. But that depends on your priorities. If you go from Berlin-Vienna (vice versa), transfer in Munich, takes a bit longer but you avoid going through CZ which you'll need an additional ticket on top of your Austro-German rail Pass.

Hello, again! Yes, I know it's been a while, but I've been reworking our itinerary, taking into account everyone's advice. Here is what it looks like right now, and what I really need is some advice about transportation: when to use the German rail pass, when to use regional trains (yes, I have visited the DB site, but if you all remember negotiating that as a first-timer, you'll understand that I would like some guidance!). :) Day 1: Fly into Berlin (I didn't count this day last time) Days 2-3: Berlin Day 4 Dresden Days 5-6 Wurtzburg/Rothenburg odT Day 7-11 Munich - with side trips to Dachau/Bavaria/Salzburg Days 12-13 Lindau Days 15-17 Rhine/Mosel regions (staying in Bacharach?) Day 18 Bonn/train to Berlin Day 19-20 Berlin
Day 21 Fly back to US Let me know what you think, and how you would handle trains (especially, how do I arrange for transportation to Salzburg?). I do plan on using Bayern passes and a regional pass for the Rhine area, as well, but think I might need a German rail pass for the longer, inter-regional trips.

We're doing a similar trip and I'm happy to share it...just fyi: Fly into Frankfurt, train from airport to Bacharach (2 nts) Rothenburg (2 nts) Munich (4) Salzburg (2) Vienna (3) Prague (3) Dresden (2) Berlin (3)
Wurzburg (1)...early train to Frankfurt airport, 2pm flight home. Most are direct trains, and it makes a big loop back to Frankfurt in just over 3 weeks.

This trip looks a lot less harried than your first itinerary, although it's still fast-paced (nothing wrong with that if you've got the energy, though!) The Bayern-ticket INCLUDES Salzburg, so no worries there. To figure out P2P tickets versus a German Rail Pass, figure out how many days of a pass you'd need, find the price (germanrailpasses.com) and figure out your daily cost with the pass. Then figure out how much P2P tickets would be for your dates at bahn.com. If a lot of routes are significantly cheaper than a day of rail pass, skip the pass. You'll be able to tell pretty easily I think which will work better for you.