Germany 2011 itinerary

I agree with Michael on Frankfurt, mostly a modern feeling City with a very small ( 2hour) Old town and Cathedral. You could probably do it all on your arrival day, and then leave the next morning for your "real' sightseeing. Not going to disagree wiith Michaels suggestrd route(Rhine makes sense after Frankfurt), but i would have suggested Rhine, Wurzburg area(one day to to get there and see the town), down Romantic Road to Munich and then on to Alps, Austria and Berlin. Just seems to flow better to me

We would prefer to either fly into one city and fly out of the other (either Frankfurt then Berlin or vice versa) but we are unable to get a direct flight to or from Berlin (we are going on points). We will fly from Berlin to Munich as the flight looks like it is one hour as opposed to a 6 hour train ride (not sure we want to spend a whole day on travel from one place to another). We do not plan on spending any more than the first day we arrive in Frankfurt as it simply doesn't interest us much. Do you suggest 2 days to do the Rhine Cruise? Are you able to get off the boat and explore and then get back on the next boat? Would you stay in a town along the route and get back on the cruise the next day. If so where would you stop. At this moment everything is open for suggestions and changes. Thanks

Please do consider giving Frankfurt a bit of time. It is one of Germanys older, very historic cities. This was a Free Imperial City State, the Coronation city for the Emperor, home of one the oldest and largest Jewish Ghettos and medieval Jewish Cemeteries, most major highways through Europe came to Frankfurt during the middle ages due to the very important trade fairs. We have some of the oldest churches in Germany, the largest wall paintings North of the Alps, dozens of museums, one of the most moving and personal Holocaust Memorials you will see in any city in Germany. We have festivals galore, the city is 45% green space with 48 parks and a beautiful river to walk along. Our neighborhoods are filled with lovely turn of the century architecture, pedestrian shopping zones with lots of sidewalk cafes, and great farmers markets. A visit to the Klein Markt Halle, the Alte Oper, and dinner in a guard tower can all make a visit to Frankfurt well worth your while.

"Our main areas of interest are not necessarily museums, art galleries etc, we enjoy being in the mountains, hiking and just enjoying the scenery and nature." Your plan is too rushed. It takes 4 days to see Berlin. You don't even want museums or megacities - so why are you going there? I'd say the same for Munich, which will be a zoo, and for Frankfurt. If you have basically 2 weeks, I'd do it as follows. 3 or 4 days on the Rhine and Mosel. It's not only abour a boat ride. There are wine festivals in one of the villages there every weekend - a good substitute for Octoberfest. Don't try to cruise to Cologne. 2 hours is about right. Try the prettiest section - start in Bacharach and end in Braubach, home of Marksburg Castle - www.marksburg.de . St. Goar has maybe the most scenic location of the Rhine towns; Cochem is the prettiest and most atmospheric on the Mosel. Both areas are great for walking and hiking; you might enjoy the chairlift rides in Boppard and in Cochem. 3-4 days in the Black Forest: Titisee, Schiltach, Hinterzarten, Freudenstadt, Rottweil, Gutach, Gengenbach, Hausach, and Calw all are very attractive towns, mostly because of their scenic locations but in several cases because of their old world feel. Walking is great, but you can also ride the trains for free in this region, and they're extremely scenic train rides. 3-4 days doing Berchtesgaden, Innsbruck, Mittenwald area. 3-4 days for the Romantic Road + Bamberg and Nuremberg. Don't miss Rothenburg, Weikersheim (palace) and Würzburg. See also non-RR towns of Weissenburg (another old walled town) and Pappenheim (if you like interesting scenery - the Altmuehl River valley there is unique.)

Here's a good source of accommodations rec's from individuals who've done the Rhine/Mosel, Schwarzwald (Black Forest) and Bavaria and who have searched out authentic down-home places to stay in these very scenic areas: www.bensbauernhof.com/accommodations.html This might be your kind of museum: near Rothenburg: www.stripes.com/military-life/travel/bad-windsheim-time-travel-at-franconian-open-air-museum-1.102354 Or this one in Gutach: http://www.vogtsbauernhof.org/ You can skip O'fest and do the beer road: http://t3-kundenserver.de.dedi661.your-server.de/typo3/tourismusserver/cms/index.php?id=322

Jo: i always enjoy your insider comments; but although i have visited Frankfurt a number of times, it is difficult for a visitor to find out about the interesting points you mention. All i hear is Old Town, or how great it is for business men. maybe you should write a tour book

dropping Berlin for Black Forest- Yes, in a heart beat. it is out of the way. and to me more serious than i want on a vacation. There are many beautiful and interesting places you could go instead. But then i dont enjoy big cities. Berlin seems to fit more in with a trip to Eastern Europe. Although last time we were in Germany we got into the Thuringian countryside and enjoyed the very different feel from Western Germany. (Still stuck in the 1950s?)

Have sent lots of suggestions to Rick Steves in the hopes that he would someday come to Frankfurt again and I could show him some of the treasures that are here. The official city tour guides that he uses, often don't go to these places as they have a set tour and that is it.... There are many misconceptions as well as incorrect information about the city in many guidebooks and on many websites. Even Rick himself, in his Smithsonian article about Rothenburg, makes an incorrect statement about Frankfurt, but he wrote the article years ago. He states that Frankfurt was just a wide mud spot in the road during the middle ages when Rothenburg was thriving. In reality, it is the other way around. The population of Frankfurt was 1000 people by 800, we had built our 2nd Emperor palace and church expansion by 850, while Rothenburg didn't even exist until the 900's. We were electing Emperors, and having huge yearly trade fairs by the middle 1100's and had already built a 2nd city wall to contain the growing population....One of our churches was built in 850, making it one of the oldest in Germany. The Teutonic Order of Knights have a church here built in 1309, 2 of our other old churches in the city center were built in 1219 and 1290, and are pretty much in original condition....Anyway, can you tell I am a history buff? :-))

Thanks Jo for the info on Frankfurt, I hadn't read anything to make me want to check it out but from what you have said it sounds like we should take another look at Frankfurt. Thanks Russ for the links. Just to clarify, it's not that we are not interested in museums, it's just not our main focus, it wouldn't make or break our trip if we missed a museum or two. Last year in Italy and France we went to too many museums and found that after awhile the pictures and statues all looked the same to us. We do realize that Munich will be crazy (both with people and prices) but the timing is such that we will be in Germany during the festival so we figure we might as well enjoy it - after all we are in the town that has the largest Oktoberfest celebration in all of North America - might as well check out the original. Now I realize this could be a very loaded question, but would anyone drop Berlin (since it is out of the way) and perhaps do another region ie-Black Forest, the Mosel or anything other region that could be of interest. Thanks

I would say drop Berlin. It doesn't fit well with the rest of your plans. My wife and I spent 11 days in Germany/Austria a few years ago. Flew into Frankfurt and drove to the Middle Rhine area (see Burg Eltz) then to the Black Forest. From there we went to Fussen to see the castles and Wieskriche . Next to Munich . Then to Herrenchiemsee on lake Chiensee which is about half way between Munich and Salzburg. Spent two days in Salzburg and a day trip to Hallstatt then drove to Vienna with a stop on the way in Melk to see the Abby. Finally drove to Rothenburg and spent the night and next day. Last leg was back to Frankfurt to fly home. It was a long drive to Melk and Vienna but if I had to leave something out it would have been the Black Forest. I really would like to have seen Cologne but there is never enough time to see it all. We used Rick's book to decide what to see at each stop except Herrenchiemsee which was not in his book , If your not familar with Herrenchiemsee do a web search and you should find all the information you need. The scenery in rual Germany and Austria was beautiful and the small towns were picture perfect. I am sure you will have a great trip where ever you decide to go !

Look at the K-D schedule (www.k-d.de). There is only one boat the goes all the way from Mainz (not Frankfurt) to Köln. It's the first boat to leave Mainz in the morning, at 8:25, and the last boat to get to Köln, at 10 PM! In other words, if you go from Mainz to Köln in a day, you can't get off anywhere and catch the next boat. There is no next boat. And, getting into Köln at 10 PM, are you planning to spend the night and leave the next morning from Köln to Berlin. You'd be better off taking the train down to somewhere like Bacharach or St. Goar and doing a shorter trip from there.

From the website it does look like there is only one boat, we have been thinking about doing part of it by train and part of it by boat. We are re-considering Berlin and planning on doing the German Alpine Road. When we arrive in Frankfurt and then do part of the Rhine. From there we will go to Munich and then we will travel to Berchesgarten and then travel along the German Alpine Road and then up the Romantic Road.

If you want to spend some time in the Black Forest region and avoid large cities, put Freiburg at the top of your list. We recently spent 3 days there and it was one of the highlights of our whole trip in Germany and France.

I just returned from a 10 day/11 night trip to Germany. I stayed with a friend for four nights and then spent a week traveling by car. We spent a night in Cologne, 3 nights in Zell (on the Mosel) and 3 nights on a farm in the Black Forest outside of Gengenbach. Cologne had the conveniences of a city, but yet did not feel too big - the chocolate museum was fun. I really enjoyed Zell (better than many of the towns in the vacinity, but the constant rain may have influenced that) and was a little surpised by the difference in feel between the Rhine nad the Mosel. I would do a farm stay again without thinking twice about it. Our location was great for exploring - we went to the glassblowing museum in Wolfach, the Open Air Black Forest Museum in Gutach and the waterfall in Triberg (If it weren't for the waterfall, I could have done without Triberg). We also took a day to go to Colmar France. The opportunity to spend time outside walking and hiking is all over and certainly worth taking the time to do.

The enjoyment of planning a trip is doing exactly what your doing now, researching, getting suggestions, opinions and discovering all sorts of new sites to see. Do get a nice large map of the entire area and start with post it notes and plot your initial points of interests You'll soon find out you can't do it all. Do internet research and discover. Accept the fact you will not see everything. Don't press yourself into exhaustion, you'll make yourself miserable and your travel mates, that's my opinion. My family did the exact same trip last year that your planning now. We had a blast.Rented a car and a GPS got along great!
Remember room rates double in Munich during Oktoberfest. This is a good time to lock in on your Munich visit and send in a deposit, you can always cancel it without penalty, the hotel will advise cancellation policy.
Have fun planning your trip...then all the planning will prep you for an unforgettable trip.

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Check out this site for car rental. I found it to be the most competitive and I really research car rentals.

Jo, thanks for sticking up for Frankfurt. I was stationed there in the Army in the early 1970s and got to know it well. Since I worked nights, I spent most of my days exploring the city, and I loved every part of it. That was before the restoration of the downtown, and the old opera house was just a burned-out shell. But it was then and remains one of my all-time favorite cities. There is not a lot of medieval architecture left in Frankfurt, but it is the essence of the modern European city with a proper mx of art and culture and should be experienced for its own sake.

Hello Darlene, Saw your itinerary on the RS Graffiti Wall. Planning the same trip for September. Fly into Frankfurt. Pick-up lease car at airport. Drive to Mainz. Do the Bingen to Boppard ferry. Drive to Koblenz to Trier. Drive to Karlsruhe to Baden-Baden. Stuttgart and The Black Forest Open Air Museum. Drive to Murten, Chamonix (Mt. Blanc) Across to Murren then south to Milan, to Genova. Along the coast to Pisa and across to Florence. Long drive to Venice and over to Vienna via Villach. Across to Salzburg, Hallstatt, and Reutte. The Romantic Road to Augsburg, then Munich. Across the Northern Alps back to Frankfurt. About 3,500 miles in 28 days should be doable. Al Benvenuti
Dundas, Ontario Good Luck on your trip.

Since you'll be there in Sept, you ought to try to squeeze in a day at the Bad Durkheim weinfest as well as a day in Heidelberg, possibly even for Herbstfest.

Darlene, sorry for the delayed reply. We returned from our 1st ever trip to Germany over Xmas (Dec 23-Jan 1) visiting our son who is stationed at Kaiserslautern. Since it was the holidays and there were so many of us (9) we were very limited on what we could do. This turned out to be a blessing in disguise, as we were able to enjoy the village where our son lives (Mehlbach) as well as some other villages around Kaiserslautern and Ramstein AFB. Anywaywe flew into Frankfurt and took the train to Kaiserslautern. By far the most enjoyable day trip we made was to Trier. I'd highly recommend this jewel of a town. It's steeped in history with the old Roman fort Porta Negra, and a fantastic vehicle-free pedestrian area from the fort chock full of shops, restaurants, squares, and museums.