Car or Train in Germany?

Some companies won't let you take their cars into CZ. You'd be more comfortable on the trrain. Your 6 legs could be covered with a 2nd class saverpass at $238 for 6 travel days within Germany. Rick's time/cost map shows about 35 Euros for German border to Prague to German border, so add that in for point-to-point tix in CZ cand you're at $273 each.

With this pass, you'd be covered for 6 legs of travel on separate days: Frankfurt-Rothenburg, R'burg-Dachau, Dachau to border, border to Dresden, Dresden to Berlin, Berlin to Bacharach.You can get to FRA for around 10 Euros each from Bacharach, less on a Minigruppenkarte.

This would be the easiest way to go by train. You could also look into getting advance sale tickets tthrough DB, but handling all the tickets for individual legs and the non-refundability of the cheap versions can play havoc with plans if you miss a train. The passes are really easy.

First question would be, did you check point-to-point ticket prices on the Deustche Bahn website? Rail passes these days are usually good for "peace of mind" (whatever exactly that is) rather than money savers. It is often cheaper to buy individual tickets. You can get a discount on certain routes if you buy in advanced. Paging Lee and Tim to explain further...

From what I can see of your itinerary, you have a few relatively short routes. Without crunching the numbers myself, I doubt a pass will save you any money.

Hi Russ - thanks for the info - would I get the saverpass through DB?

Hi Tom - yes, first I did point to point pricing to get and idea of cost, but wasn't finding fares posted for routes from Prague to Berlin and on - so started looking around on the DB site and found that 6 people gets us group pricing. I then did point to point with the discounts and came up with about $1,900 for all

If we make a rez on a specific train and miss it - do you have to buy another set of tickets? Is there a great difference between 1st and 2nd class?

Have only had a rail pass once - otherwise we've rented a car - so I appreciate the help!

Russ, AutoEurope said we could take the car to Prague - but would have to pay for supplemental theft insurance (included in the 1,800 EC) We wouldn't be driving in the cities - parking it at the hotel and taking public transport. Thanks!

I've re-read your original post just now. I don'tknow if you have flight tix already, but it would make your trip easier and your travel legs fewer to fly into FRA and out of MUC or Berlin. You could go FRA-Bacharach-Berlin-Dresden-Prague-Rothenburg-Dachau just as easily. And if you're only "stopping" (what, for a few hours?) in Dresden, you may need only a 4-day German twin pass, which is $201, + your CZ tix and your 10 Euros to Bacharach (I guess you'd need to get to MUC from Dachau too for a few Euros.) These prices are from Rick's pages where I've gotten my passes in the past, but you might just check the DB pricing too - I've heard it's a little better.

Thanks Russ, you are right that it would be easier to fly in /out of different airports but we are using miles and and in/out of Frankfurt was what was available. Which explains our big circle of travel. I've just been looking at the rail pass site, if we use the twin pass for the longer routes and then buy tickets for the shorter ones that could work - the 5 person pass might work too - thanks!

Yes, we were hoping to see Dachau on the way to Prague and also to stop for lunch and do Rick's walking tour in Dresden - so just a few hours

So if you could pick either one - you would prefer the train?

First of all, you would be far better off to go from Frankfurt to Bacharach and Cochem, then to Rothenburg, Munich, and Prague, then fly out of Berlin.

Thanks Lee, I agree the route you mentioned would be better! oh well. I do like putting the big cities in the middle of the trip and the smaller towns first and last. (a suggestion of another traveller)

Howdy from central Texas. We were just in Germany last fall. Wanted to go to Czech Republic but the car rental agency would not allow it. We were in Germany for a month and spent a week in Leipzig where we used it as home base and explore Dresden, Wittenberg, and other areas. Used trains a lot there as the train system, as you say, is very efficient and reliable. We also stayed in Berlin 3 nights and loved it. Berlin felt a lot like Paris to me. Very exciting place to visit. I would consider using the trains myself and not worry with a car. I think pricewise it would be perhaps better.

Thanks Jerry, where did you stay in Berlin?

7 Passenger van is about $1800. Do you realize that according to ViaMichelin for a Sedan, fuel alone, not including parking, for that trip is $500. That was for a sedan; does a van get as good mileage as a sedan?

What is the relationship of the six people, six unrelated adults or 2 parents and 4 children, what ages? I'll assume 6 adults.

BTW, FRA-Rothenburg, Rothenburg-Prague, Prague-Berlin, Berlin-Bacharach, Bacharach-Cochem, Cochem-Frankfurt are six days. Why are you looking at a five day rail pass? Or was that a typo?

Day 1: Frankfurt to Rothenburg, one RMV Gruppentageskarte (€23,60)+ one Einzelfahrschein (7,15) gets you to Kahl am Main. One Bayern-Ticket (€28) plus one Bayern-Ticket-Single (€20) gets you from Kahl to Rothenburg. That's €78,75, $106.31, for the first day.

Day 2: Rothenburg to Praque, Bayern-Tickets (again one 5 person Bayern-Ticket, €28, and one single, €20 gets you to Furth im Wald, on the German-Czech border, 6 times €11.69 for Czech Rail tickets to Prague. €118,16, $159.52.

Day 3: Praque to Berlin, 6 Europa-Spezial-Tschechien Tickets at €29 each, €174, $234.90. Build in a stop in Dresden.

Day 4: Berlin to Bacharach, 6 Sparpreis tickets at €138, $186.30.

Day 5: Bacharach to Cochem, Rheinland-Pfalz-Ticket, €28, plus RL-P-Single, €20, €48, $64.80.

Day 6: Cochem to FRA, Rheinland-Pfalz & RL_P-Single plus 6 local RMV tickets at €3,80, €70,80, $95.58.

Rail tickets for all SIX day come to $847.41, compared to $2160 for Railpasses and $1800+$500 = $2300 for the van (plus parking).

Hmm.

BTW, I assume the $1900 was the group discount (6 or more @ 50% off of full price). That's not usually the best deal.

To the extent that you are willing to plan your trip so as to use specific trains at specific hours and don't mind advance-purchasing and porting around the Europa-spezial and Sparpreis tickets Lee suggests, they are good, cheap options. I have used them several times and saved big $.

Remember however that if one person is late for a given departure time on your tickets, he'll need to purchase a new ticket at full price. If you change your minds about a departure time more than a day in advance, you can pay 15 Euros each to exchange your tickets, but later than that and you forfeit the fare. Remember also that capacities are controlled; they're available 92 days in advance and should be purchased 92 days in advance if you want to be sure to get the low prices.

The cheap Länder Tickets (Bayern Ticket etc.) Lee suggests are also big savers. Remember though that they will restrict your travel to after 9 am on weekdays and to the regional trains rather than the high-speed equipment you can use with a railpass; you'll spend more time underway and will need to change trains more frequently on most routes. Check the travel times and changes for these trains on your routes through Germany by stipulating "only local transport" at the DB itinerary page:

http://reiseauskunft.bahn.de/bin/query.exe/en

With the railpass, you can hop on any train you like whenever you like. If you want to stay longer than planned, or if you want to jet over to some other nearby town on one of your travel days, no problem - just do it. You can also use the pass for the Rhine Cruise boats (no extra travel day charged if you use it on the same day as the train.)

Whether Lee's tickets are right for you depends on your travel style, the time you have, and your group. I generally use the cheapies for myself and my wife when we travel in Germany, but if I were on a tight schedule with a group of people, or if I needed flexibility, I might find them more vexing than helpful.

Four of those legs, FRA to Rothenburg, Rothenburg to Prague via Munich, Bacharach to Cochem, and Cochem to Frankfurt use mostly regional trains anyway, and little time would be saved with a railpass, for a lot more money.

Frankfurt to Rothenburg: 15 min to an hour longer using regional train from Frankfurt to Würzburg vs express. Würzburg to Rothenburg all regional regardless.

Dachau to Munich Prague: The only thing faster than one of the four regional connection through Furth im Wald uses a non-stop bus from Nürnberg to Prague, and you have to reserve the bus in advance. Using a regional pass also covers your bus from Dachau station to the memorial; a rail pass won't.

On second analysis, you can use two Bayern-Böhmen tickets from Rothenburg to Dachau to Pilsen for €33 each and €5,60 local tickets from Pilsen to Prague. $135 for 6 people (I originally said $160)

Bacharach to Cochem: Most connections are regional anyway. Using one of the few ICs from Koblenz to Cochem only saves 5 min.

Cochem to Frankfurt: With a pass, you can use an IC from Koblenz to Frankfurt and save an hour.

Those four legs, by regional passes and local tickets, will cost a total of $401 for 6 people and take a total of 2-3 hours longer. The other two legs will be as low as $421 for all six. Can it really be worth another $1300 not to use non-refundable tickets for two legs?

Hi Guys - wow, a lot of good information. Yes, Lee you are right - it is 6 days of travel - the RS consultant suggested buying 5 day rail passes and purchase one leg separately, probably the Bacharach to Cochem or the tickets in CZ. I figured it in the individual pricing but didn't add it to the rail pass pricing.

The way you have it planned there is a big difference in price between the car and the trains - a couple of questions.

First off, if I buy the individual tickets would I buy all of the tickets 92 days in advance of each travel date from the DB website? Do you make seat reservations at the same time? Is there a big difference between 1st and 2nd class? The $1,900 was the point to point pricing with a group discount from the DB website. There was also a discount for under 26 with 2nd class tickets but I would want us to all have the same class of tickets to stay together.

We are 3 adults, 2 college age sons 20 and 21 and my 18 yr old niece. Traveling with young people, I seriously doubt we'd be on a train before 9A - but we will need some flexibility. I think we'd rather pay a little more and be able to travel faster (where able to) and catch a later train if necessary.

The flexibility of a car is attractive but price and convenience are a concern, thank you for all of your expertise. I appreciate your help!

A 1st class Saver for 6 days IS $360. You had the right price for 6 days, just wrote 5.

The first time I was in Europe, it was on the company, and they paid for 1st class rail travel. The second trip was on me, so I economized with 2nd class. I really couldn't see enough difference between the classes to warrant the higher price. I've been using 2nd class ever since.

Four of the legs (Frankfurt-Rothenburg, Rothenburg-Dachau-Prague, Bacharach-Cochem, and Chochem-Frankfurt can all be done with regional passes (Länder-Tickets) and local point-point tickets. There is no reason to get these in advance. You can get them at the station the day of travel. Only the Prague-Berlin and Berlin-Bacharach legs require advance purchase to get the best prices.

Thanks Brad, you are the first to say you like having a car! We like the flexibility and freedom of going when you want and stopping anywhere that looks good. Trying to be open minded about using the trains - and if it's not too much trouble and $1,000 euros less - well it's something to consider. Thanks for the info!

Thanks Lee - would I book them on the DB website?

Thanks Brad - I think we are spoiled with having a car on trips! here in Texas we drive everywhere and it's just normal. In Europe my husband drives and I navigate, easy. But, I am checking all the options - clean, fast trains could be good too! :) The people on this site make taking the train sound so simple~

Hope you and the family enjoy your trip - sounds great~

Yes, get the Prague to Berlin and Berlin to Bacharach tickets online from the German Rail website. I would get those tickets for those legs before you do anything else. The others you know you can always get. Then, if you can't get them at a favorable price, you can always get railpasses.

For the stop in Dresden, use the "Via" field to build in a stop in "Dresden" and put in a generous stopover time. If you have time remaining, enjoy coffee and a pastry.

Since there are six of you and the Bahn only sells tickets online for five people on one ticket, I would get the ticket for five people first. Then, if you go to buy the last ticket and have to pay full price for it, it won't make much difference, spread over six people. (Note, if you can find fares on the train from Prague to Berlin for €29, and you can't get them for the sixth person, it's only €61 for the last person, FULL FARE, and you probably won't have to pay that much.

Trains work well in Germany. The system is better than anywhere I've been. That said, my friends and relatives in Germany all agree that you can't live without a car.

For pricing, I usually find the price tips in favor of driving when you get to four people but your pricing doesn't seem to show that.

Also, we leased a seven passenger car for five of us and had just the right amount of room for spouse and I, three kids (16, 12, 8) and a carry on each. If you have significant luggage, a 7 passenger may not be big enough to be comfortable.

If you train, be sure to pack light. Getting on and off trains can be a hassle when carrying a lot.

My comment isn't about trains, though I would recommend trains, it's about the end segment. Spending 2 nights in Bacharach, 1 in Cochem and 1 in Frankfurt seems strange as all those locations are so close together. We stayed near Bacharach (in St Goar) and traveled to Cochem, Burg Eltz, and Frankfurt from there. I would pick a central city and spend all the nights in 1 spot (especially with so many people) and daytrip from there and leave from there the day you fly out.

I know you're getting lots of responses about rail but here's a car perspective. I've done both. I went to Germany last May and used trains exclusively and my first trip there was by car. I'm taking a small group in September with a similar itinerary and we'll be driving this time. It's going to be cheaper, more convenient (we'll be able to stop and start at our own pace) and it's easier to get people "loaded" than the train. German trains are great and on time. You may only have a couple of minutes at some stops to change trains. Since this usually means going up and down stairs with luggage for several people, it can be pretty hectic.It's definitely doable but don't be surprised if you miss a connection or two. Also, have a contingency plan if someone gets separated from the group. If you decide to stick to your original plan try American car rentals. We'll be renting a van through Dollar Rental. The catch is that it has to be picked up and returned to Frankfurt but this works well with our circular itinerary. 12 days is about $1200, much lower than I found with European rentals. The last time I used Thrifty although Dollar's rate is better now.

Thank you Lee - again great information. I checked out your website, very interesting - thank you for your help.

Hi Brad - the larger vehicle is what bumps the price up so much, renting for a party of 4 is much cheaper. We could actually rent 2 vehicles for less than the van but that would be ridiculous! We've rented a 7 pass van for 6 people several times now and it works out fine. (had a 9 pass once and that was great) Everyone traveling with me has to carry on! (haha and no whining on vacation)

Lee is a whiz at figuring cheap ways to do the train but I know we will not be that tight on sticking to a schedule, so I'm going to figure in some of the specific tickets and be flexible on pricing the others.

I'm going to check out other options for renting (thanks for the Dollar suggestions) and compile the train vs. car pricing, then talk to my husband and brother. (who will likely tell me to do whatever I think is best! ahhh!)

Thank you to everyone who has posted - it's been a great help!

This Thread is very informative.
Can I ask a question too?
I will be traveling just Germany this summer for 4 weeks with my adult sons. (18,19)
Would you still suggest the car rental is easier or do you think the train is better with 3 adults?
It sounds like the challenges people are expressing with the train is the transfers with young kids?
Just a thought.. Thanks

Dani wrote:

"I will be traveling just Germany this summer for 4 weeks with my adult sons. (18,19) Would you still suggest the car rental is easier or do you think the train is better with 3 adults? It sounds like the challenges people are expressing with the train is the transfers with young kids?"

It depends on what you want to see and where you want to go. 4 of us (wife, two teen-twenty "kids" and self) have traveled twice in Germany on the trains. The train travel is part of the appeal of the trip. The "kids" know all about car travel. Train travel has been a hoot. Pack a lunch, make it an outing. Connections have only been a problem once, and it was better than running through an airport. You just catch the next train.

Wife and I have started traveling annually to Germany. We always take the train. We formerly lived in Germany and had a car; that was good as well. Taking the train is a new treat. Forget traffic jams, rude drivers and parking.

Regards, Gary

Gary,
Thanks for the insight.. The challenge I have with being the only driver is I miss so much trying to figure out where I am all the time. I love to drive and I like the flexibility of going off the beaten path but I think with 2 young men in tow it might be better to stay on the beaten path and keep them around other young adults. I think they will love the night life, given they are of age in Europe to go into bars. That alone should keep their attention for awhile. LOL
The train, as you mentioned may be an exciting part of the journey. Thanks for that thought.

HI Dani - I agree that if I were traveling alone with my 2 boys (men now) I would take the train and would not be considering a car. Although - my 21 yr old drove the van some on the last trip and did well - but I'd still take the train. Actually if it were just my husband and me - I'd take the train! Have a great trip!

Hi Guys - thanks for all your posts and information, it's been very helpful.

Regarding the GPS - we have one that my husband uses all the time (I'm the map reader in the group) checked with Garmin and it's $150 to load the maps for the several country region around Germany. Only $99 for Eastern Europe. But if you do rent a car - most of the websites I've seen have several offers for free GPS...rent for a week or 10 days, rent particular vehicles, rent from certain cities....

Hadn't really thought about the trains being 'fun' looked at it more of a keeping to a schedule challenge - interesting.

That's a lot of stops really far apart. Berlin is closer to Prague than the Rhinleand/Mosel. Check the driving times on Google maps.