Bavaria/Alps vacation

Hi Lauri this will be a great trip. I will be back later with more comments, and I am sure others will have their contributions, but for starters I want to say three things: 1. Generally a Swiss pass plus pont topint tickets for Germany works better then a 2-country pass. Advance purchase tickets or regional,trains in Germany should be better than the cost of using a day on the pass. And a two-country pass doesn't to cover as much in the Gimmelwald area as a real Swiss pass. So maybe you can take the beat route from Salzburg to the Bernwr Oberland instead of worrying about returning to Munich ( but that may still be the best option). 2. If your plane departs Zurich at 11:00 or later, itis very easy to reach that from Luzern. That means you can spend your last night in Luzern instead of Zurich, and maybe rearrange your itinerary accordingly. 3. I urge you to make reservations rahter than just show up. Myou are traveling at highest season,mand some of the best-located and best-priced places will be taken, especially in the smaller towns. Nyou will save time by booking in dance rather than trying to figure it out when you get there. As for Rothenburg, I was there 40years ago and yes it was nice, but today it is reputed to be overcrowded. It is out of your way, and may not be as meaningful to you and your son as it is to your husband. I respectfully suggest you skip it as you have little time for detours on your trip.

No Passes! Stick with point to point tickets in Germany. Both you and your son can travel on 1 Bavarian Day ticket all over the area including Munich, Dachau, Salzburg, Augsburg etc for an incredibly cheap price (~ 25 Euro total). Definitely get some sort of pass for Switzerland. The Half Fare card seems to be the most economical all around and will save you a boat of money. Gimmelwald for a particular reason? Yes, it's quaint for about an hour then it could get a little boring. Opt for Mürren which is a little bigger and sits just above Gimmelwald...about a 30-45 minute VERY pleasant stroll DOWNHILL from Mürren to Gimmelwald. Then use your HF Card to take the Gondola on down to the valley floor to Stechelberg and have a VERY nice walk along the sparsely trafficed road to Trummelbache Falls. Catch the post bus (with your half fare card) to Lauterbrunnen and have a snack at the little cafe/bakery just beside the gondola back up to Mürren. There's actually lots to see and do in the area. It will be a great experience. Yes, I would vote to SKIP Rothenburg. Lucerne will give you plenty of the medieval town city experience in an absolutely BEAUTIFUL setting.

I'm going to stick up for hubby. Rothenburg is along the way to Augsburg from Berlin. Its not that hard to get to. Change at Wurzburg and Steinach. It gets crowded because it is nice, especially after the tour bus groups leave at the end of the day. Spend a night. If you cross a place off your list because it's too "popular" or "crowded", you'll never make it to Venice, or Florence, or Paris. And how do you know if it really is touristy if you have not experienced it?

OK, incorporating the above suggestions, you have something like this: Berlin, one night? Train to Rothenburg O.d. Tauber ( 5.5 hours, 3changes), one night Train to Augsburg ( 2.5 hours, 2 changes), 2 nights Train to Salzburg ( direct train, 2.25 hours), 2 nights Train to Luzern (6.5 hours, one change at Zurich, do NOT go through Munich), one night Train/cablecar to Mürren ( or Gimmelwald), 3 nights Train to Luzern for last night before flying out, or Zurich if your plane is in the morning. One night. That is 11 nights and I believe you said you have 12 ( thirteen days). Add the extra night to Berlin.

Most of Europe has August off for school holiday and many, many business closures for holiday. It's prime travel time. I strongly suggest you get hotel reservations ahead of time unless you have an unlimited budget. Rooms may be available where you go, but the costs will be incredibly higher than if you had made a reservation.

Thanks to all for your replies. I have been reading other posts on this site and they all say that Switzerland is VERY expensive. Is it that much more expensive than Germany? Also, what about smoking. My son tends to asthma and neither one of us tolerate cigarette smoke very well. Where we live all restaurants, bars, hotels, etc. are non-smoking so we really are not used to cigarette smoke. will that be a problem?

Hotels in Swiss cities such as Zurich and Luzern are expensive compared to Berlin and Augsburg. But you can find places to stay in the mountain villages that are not so bad. A twin room at Chalet Fontana in Mürren is 85-95 CHF but you must reserve that now if you want to stay there. In Luzern, maybe try Hotel Stern ( or Goldenen Stern as it may be listed). A twin room at 195 CHf is not bad for Luzern. As for smoking, many or most hotels and restaurants are smoke-free. Ironically, the place you are most likely to encounter smoking is if you sit at an outside table.

So, after much thought, looking at train schedules, advice from friends and this board I think that this is finally what we will do. We will concentrate on Germany with a side trip to Salzburg/Bertchesgaden. With the time we were going to spend in Switzerland we will go to Trier and do the Moselle river and maybe have an extra day in Munich to do the Garmisch/castle area. We will still be in the Alps and I would like to see Linderhof in all of its glory instead of in February when the fountains are off and the gardens are dead. I finally figured out how to use the Bahn train schedules to get prices (I realized I was looking at dates too far out and when I put in a date 3 months from the day it is then I can get a price) and the advice to get the point to point tickets was right on. It is much cheaper doing it that way! I still think that we will fly into Berlin and out of Munich as that seems to be the cheapest way. I will have to save Switzerland and Prague (recommended by a friend here) for a later trip. I think we will have time for castles/WWII history/art and downtime exploring the countryside with this schedule. I want to rent bikes in the Moselle valley and also in Munich and the Garmisch area to explore and work off some of the delicious food. My son will be happy that he will be able to try wine again (he will be 19) and I will even bring back some Moselle wine for the husband. Another question - will the wineries mail the wine back to the states?