Barcelona and Madrid

Jim - In Madrid you should visit (even if you aren't a big art museum fan) at least one of the Big Three art museums. The Royal Palace tour is also interesting. All of this leaves plenty of time at night for cafes, clubs, and tapas. If you want a day trip, Toledo is only 30 minutes away by train. In Barcelona I'd recommend the Picasso Museum. After that the Modernista sites (the Tourist Office has a good walking tour) particularly Sagrada Familia are Must Sees.
The evening on Las Rambla can be entertaining. The beaches around Barcelona can still be usable in September also.

Don't miss the date in July for buying tickets on the high-speed AVE train between the two cities at 60% off!

For two people it's obviously more economical to fly between the cities than take the AVE even considering the transit to and from the airports. Is the train ride from Barcelona to Madrid scenic enough to justify rail versus air travel? How do you find the discount AVE tickets?

Are you sure that it is obviously cheaper to fly? The discounted price for Barcelona to Madrid by train is 58.80 EUR. Are flights really cheaper once you factor in transportation to and from the airport? I wouldn't say the journey is particularly scenic. The main reason to take the train is that it is just so much more convenient than flying. You can buy tickets from RENFE. If you go to the tripadvisor Madrid forum, on the right side of the screen is a link to a very detailed post about when and how to buy.

Obviously more economical to fly? The Web fare for the AVE can go as low as 35 euro. There are no "add-ons" like you will see with budget flights. I see seats at that price on the 18:00 train traveling on 2 June. Other trains that day have seats at 41 or 47 euros, and lots have the 58 euro fare. The travel time between the two, city center to city center, is 2.5 hours. The flight will take considerably more time by the time you add travel to and from each airport to the city center, and security/waiting time at the airport. We liked Hotel Jazz in Barcelona.

Jim asks ' How do you find the discount AVE tickets?' See at least this concise guide - http://www.seat61.com/Spain-trains.htm#How_to_use_www.renfe.com If necessary and as you are from the U.S. read -
http://www.tripadvisor.co.uk/Travel-g187514-c80518/Madrid:Spain:Buying.Renfe.Tickets.Online..html If you do not want to travel city centre to city centre in comfort with the ability to walk about, no multiple changes and little difference money wise when you add it all up, go ahead and fly. Jim - why do want everyone else's ideas of what to see, when there is so much available to choose from that might suit you? Huge amount of info. available on the www. if you do not pick up books. Lodging - how much or little comfort do you want with whatever budget?

Why do you want to know how to buy AVE tickets when you obviously are not interested in taking the train? Just make sure when you buy your air tickets that the flight leaves from El Prat (BCN) and not the other "Barcelona" airport used by some of the budget airlines. It is an hour away.

And if you are thinking of Ryanair (which will leave from the Girona airport not BCN), yes the price shows up at 26,99 euro. But ooops! there is a 6 euro admin fee for booking, 10 euros if you want a reserved seat, and checked bag charge (in case your carryon doesn't meet their tight size requirements) of 25 euros (15 k) to 40 euros is you're over 15 k but under 20k. Maybe you can find a Vueling flight for 50 euros but most of them are 60 euros or more. At least they fly out of El Prat. Don't forget to add the cost of getting to the airport.

I can't imagine flying for a 2.5 hour train trip. The to-from time from airports means that flying only starts to be somewhat advantageous from a time standpoint if the train trip is 5-6 hours or more. And that's just factoring in time. When you factor in stress - take the train, even if it's not scenic, it's easy.

It would be easier to make recommendatinos if we knew what your interests are. Art and architecture? Food and wine? Culture? And if you do wish to visit the Picasso and other art museums in Barcelona, look into the Articket, which includes free entry to some and allows you to skip the line. We wished we had done that after we saw the one-lhour long line at the Picasso. Sagrada Familia is not on the Articket, but you can buy tickets in advance on the web. Again, highly recommended if you want to avoid the long line.

That is true that the lines can be long at the Picasso. I avoided them by taking the late afternoon Picasso tour offered by the Tourist Office in Placa Catalunya. It ends up at the Picasso with a partial guided tour. Then you can explore on your own.

I was in Barcelona in August, and we rode by Sagrada Familia on a HOHO bus around 13:00 and the lines were ridiculous. We came back about 90 minutes before closing and not only was the line non-existent, but the afternoon/setting sun shining in through the windows was magical. So glad we waited to go then. I don't know if this advice would hold true to all times of the year, but avoiding mid-morning to mid-afternoon at Sagrada Familia and getting there at opening or before closing is probably a fairly reliable way to avoid horrible lines.

Whoa! Not anti-train at all! Last fall took the hi-speed train from Moscow to St. Pete (great), then buses to Estonia. Some of the AVE rates I saw were 100+ euros. I'd rather take a train then mess with airport securities, etc. but not at a cost of 100+ euros each. I'll look for some of the discounted AVE tickets. I agree Ryan Air is OK but can also get pricey with the various "add-ons". Got the RS book on Spain and usually find his recommendations pretty reliable. Pres Reagan used to say "trust but verify" and we have always found that comments on the Travelers Helpline are great verifications. Thanks for any inputs. We're planning to visit in late Sept.

To see the discounted Web fares on the AVE go to "purchase" on the Renfe website, not "fares and schedules." Choose a day 60 to 62 days out and you should see them. Mark your calendar for the day and go for it. Make sure you understand the purchase procedure and register your credit card with Verified by Visa before you try to purchase. Also call your bank to advise of the foreign purchase. I don't know what hotels Rick recommends in Barcelona but I'll repeat my recommendation of Hotel Jazz. Great location (near Place Catalunya), nice trendy modern hotel, good price. And a pool on the roof. It is a very short walk from the Aerobus Universitat stop-almost across the street. Check the reviews on Tripadvisor to verify.

Since it seems no one really answered your question about sightseeing, here's what I've got: Madrid has great art museums, if you're into that. My favorite is the Guernica, which is in the Reina Sofia, free admission after 7pm. The Palacio Real is great, but go at a time the pharmacy (the old apothecary rooms in the palace) are open. I like Puerta del Sol better than Plaza Mayor, but both are worth a stroll. The Retiro is great for a picnic. Lots of benches if you're worn out after sightseeing. The Rastro is great if you're there on a Sunday morning. I always stayed in Hotel Gran Legazpi. It is a bit out-of-the-way in a business district, but is easily accessible by metro, safe, decently priced and I'm not the type to go back to my hotel in the middle of the day anyways.

I would definitely budget more days in Barcelona than in Madrid. While to me, Madrid felt like just another bland, big city, Barcelona felt like it was burstingto the seams with life. The big market (La Boqueria) just off La Rambla is fun and good for grabbing lunch. The whole city is full of Gaudi architecture, and his park, Guell, is beautiful, but INCREDIBLY packed on the weekends. My biggest 'can't miss' of course is the Sagrada Familia. If you see nothing else, see that. It is especially beautiful if you have visited other, more traditional European cathedrals. There are long lines, but they are worth it. I also liked walking down by the waterfront. I'm not sure if you are on a budget, but I stayed in a great little place full of character that was only 2 blocks off the Ramblas. Message me if you want the info, and I can go look it up for you! My favorite cant miss experience is the tapas bars (great in both cities). Patatas Bravas (roasted potatoes with a delicious sauce) and Tortilla Espanola (thick potato omlette, if they offer it "rellena," it's stuffed and delicious! Don't be afraid to ask how things work and how much stuff is, it's fun and they are nice about it!