Another ATM question

"...Also, the bank rep told me that some banks in Europe will allow you to use the debit function of the card to make a Point of Sale cash advance..." I've used my debit card frequently to make point-of-sale purchases in Europe, but I've never been given the option by any merchant of getting "cash back" like I do here is the US at supermarkets, or rite-aid type stores.

Star network is a First Data product that is trying to compete with Plus and Cirrus. At one time it was only available in North America. I spent a few minutes on the web site (goggle Star network) and could not find anywhere an indication of where Star operates. There was a comment about "nationwide" and another comment about 37,000 locations. There is a place to enter a zip code to locate a terminal. When I put in Rome, I got Rome, NY. My credit union uses Star IN ADDITION to Plus but both logos are on the card. If I had a Star only network card I would not want to depending on using it in Europe. All bank associated ATMs give the same rate via the network that is used. At the same point in time someone using a VISA card might get a slight different exchange rate from a Mastercard user but it would a different of .0001 or 2. But all Plus networks would have the same rate at the same time. ALL DEBIT CARD CHARGES are solely determined by your bank or card issuers. The owner of the ATM in Europe does not charge anything for you to use it. I don't think your bank representative is well informed on the subject of European ATMs or usage. You might call back and hope to get someone who is better informed. I tend to avoid stand alone ATMs such as you find in airports and other tourist locations. Since I prefer to use an ATM attached to a bank during banking hours, I always carry a hundred Euro or so going in.

Glad I saw this post! It made me look at my ATM cards, and the one I have used in Europe many times now has the STAR logo on the back. I'm sure it used to have CIRRUS also. It also has ACCEL and The EXCHANGE logos. Does any one know if those two work in Europe? I leave in a few weeks, so I had better get cracking to make sure I can get bucks over there. I was planning on using multiple cards on the day we arrive in Paris, in order to make the final payment on the apartment before we move in.

STAR network ATM's are located only in the US and Canada. For ATM's in Spain, you'll need an ATM/debit card that has PLUS (Visa) or CIRRUS (Mastercard) access.

Over the past few months, my BofA ATM debit card and my Chase Visa card have renewed. Looking on the back of both, and the Plus logo no longer appears. I know that Plus is owned by Visa and Cirrus by Mastercard but neither is on my cards. Both cards have the Visa logo on the front (thus I wouldn't see the Cirrus logo anyway). My new Charles Schwab ATM check card does have the Plus logo on the back. We're going to Spain and France later this year. I'll need to get caught up on why the logos have disappeared from two of my cards.

According to their website, ACCEL/EXCHANGE has ATM's in Germany, Italy, Portugal, and the U.K. - but no other European countries. http://www.accelexchange.com/atmLocatorOther.aspx

To answer Larry's question. Since Visa owns Plus the assumption is that Visa will work on the Plus network so with all of the other stuff now on the back of cards I assume the logo was dropped to make room.

Frank, I'm assuming the same thing as the Visa logos are clearly on the front. But, I'm going to check anyway.

take 100 euros with you..you'll be exhausted from the flight and in no mood to figure out the ATM...take it from one who has made the mistake...my upset stomach made for a very unhappy traveler on arrival. Then I had to get my bearings, figure out the ATM, hunt for a toilet and watch my stuff...heck it's a vacation so make it easy on yourself.

Okay, so here's what I have been able to find out:
My card will work at European ATMs through the MasterCard part (that is used for POS/debit in the States). Presumably through Cirrus but my bank said to use only ATM machines with the MasterCard logo. For each transaction I will be charged my bank's flat rate plus a 2% currency conversion fee, and any fees levied by the owner of the ATM. My husband and I both have ATM cards on the same account, we can each withdraw up to the daily limit on the same day. I asked for clarification of the Cash Advance suggestion that a previous bank rep had mentioned. It must be done at a bank, by a teller. To my bank it would appear as a POS transaction, for which the daily limit is much higher than ATM. There would be a 2% currency conversion fee to my account and the European bank could charge me a fee since I wouldn't be an account holder. He also said that any POS transaction not in U.S Dollars will have a 2% currency conversion fee, at a store or restaurant etc. I don't think I have seen anybody mention that lately and I hadn't thought about it, so that was important to learn. I know that our credit card charges 3% conversion. Just out of curiosity we asked our credit card about cash advances...24.5% and they start charging interest immediately. Never mind! I'll come back to this post after the trip to update.

Every ATM I have ever seen has BOTH Plus and Cirrus so that is not a problem. No bank owned ATM in Europe will charge you a fee for using their ATM. Not sure how you are interpreting - "any POS transaction not in U.S Dollars will have a 2% currency conversion fee." First, you only should use your debit card for cash at an ATM and not for purchases. All of your transactions should be in a foreign currency. There is a bit of scam called Dynamic Conversion in which a vendor will offer to charge your card in dollars. Don't accept that. You will get a horrible exchange rate and still be charge conversion fees.

Frank, my comment about any POS transaction having a 2% fee is in reference to using the debit card to buy merchandise in a shop or pay for a restaurant meal, ways that I might use a debit card in the States. There's no fee for me to use it when dealing in dollars whereas I will have to pay something to use it in Europe (or anyplace that doesn't use $USD)the currency conversion fee.

We're back. Our experience with the ATMs was fine even though our debit cards do not say Plus or Cirrus. We always used bank ATMs that had a MasterCard logo, all of the machines we encountered had it. Some machines asked if we wanted "currency conversion" to dollars, others did not. We did not try to get a POS cash advance at a bank so I cannot report on that. We brought about 100 euro with us and I'm glad that we did. There were long lines at the airport ATMs and we were quite jet-lagged and didn't want to wait. We were able to buy euros at below the interbank rate at a money exchange house near the US-Mexico border, I think they just want to get rid of them. I realize that this tip is of no help to the majority of people here but for those who live near an international border it may be useful.

Charlie, I made the ATM withdrawls from my checking account, not from a credit card. My bank statement does not show any transaction fee, it just shows the amount of dollars debited by each transaction. I assumed that it included the $5 fee but since the dollar amount appears to be roughly the Interbank exchange rate at that time, I'm wondering if they charged me. It does not appear that the Spanish banks charged any fees either (although I did not expect that, based on comments by experienced travelers here). The only times we used a credit card was to pay for hotels and a couple of pricier restaurant meals. On the CC statement they show up just as the dollar value and a line for the currency exchange fee (at 3%). Only one transaction says how many euros we charged. Fortunately we had brought a second CC with us, an AmEx card. When we checked out of our first hotel (in Barcelona) at 6am the clerk insisted that our card would not work. We called our CC company in the U.S. who said that the card was not blocked nor did they see the hotel transaction trying to come through, but since it was the middle of the night in the US they couldn't do anything; and the hotel's bank was also closed so we couldn't insist that the clerk call them. Luckily, the hotel accepted AmEx so we were able to pay the bill and catch our train. The CC worked everywhere else, before and after that incident, so it was the hotel's credit card reader or their bank that was the problem. After that we made sure to settle the hotel bills during business hours just to be safe, so I wouldn't have to run out to get Euros to pay the bill. Based on that experience I would strongly advise taking a second credit card when traveling to Europe.

Yes, BOA removed the Plus logo in the back. I talk to them. They told me that nothing have change. Same as before. When I was in Italy a few weeks ago. All the ATM I used accept any Cards. ( not sure about Star) So I thing the system maybe changing.

Another issue of using a DEBIT card in Europe for purchases is that it is "practically" impossible to contest a charge and win your case as opposed to using a CREDIT card for purchases where you can always contest a charge and have it removed from your CC bill until a resolution is arrived at by the issuing financial institution. Sorry to hear that some folks are having problems in using ATMs when they arrive at European airports. We go to Europe every summer and have never had a problem, thank goodness. I would be curious if Elizabeth sees a $5 charge for each ATM transaction on her next bill from the CC company. My credit union has no such charges, thank goodness again.

In April in France I used my credit union ATM card everywhere. It has Plus, Interlink, Co-Op, and Star logos on it. The only charges on my bank statement were 1% transaction fees levied by the credit union and the exchange rate was not inflated like it would have been at an airport moneychanger. It didn't make any difference where the ATM was: airport or bank. There were no flat fees charged by the ATMs.