6 days in Western Germany - Bacharach or Cochem&#59; Black Forest

I would suggest staying in St. Goar rather than Bacharach simply because you'll be staying within the boundaries of the Verkehrverbund Rhein-Mosel, and the ticket machine there will sell VRM Gruppentageskarten (day tickets for the VRM, which extends along the Rhein from Oberwessel to Remagen and up the Mossel past Bullay). If you stay in Bacharach and want to travel in the VRM, you will have to get off in Oberwesel to buy the ticket and catch the next train, an hour later. If you want to stay in a small quaint town closer to Burg Eltz, I would recommend Treis-Karden. I stayed in a Privatzimmer here; the Löhr family speaks English.

All nice places. Between Bacharach and Cochem, I'd go with Cochem, in light of their interest in biking (more pleasant on the Mosel,) the proximity of Burg Eltz and of Reichsburg Castle right in town (both of which offer tours, and Reichsburg a thrilling falconry show too) and even the hiking (to the castle, to the Pinnerkreuz lookout, to Valwiger Berg) and the many narrow, cobblestoned streets ripe for exploring.) Bacharach is lovely too and worth a visit, but it has no castle you can tour (it's a youth hostel) and overall, Cochem has a bit more to offer (like the chairlift ride to the Pinnerkreuz - they can then walk or ride down - no lift in Bacharach, sadly.) It would be hard to do accomplish Burg Eltz AND all there is to do in and around Cochem in a single daytrip from Bacharach. So if they split their time, I'd suggest 2 in Cochem, 1 in Bacharach, with Bacharach on the back-end so they're a little closer to the Black Forest. That said, I would consider staying all 3 nights in Cochem. A daytrip from Cochem to the Bacharach area of the Rhine for a look around town and a river cruise is totally feasible. And it's nice to be able to stay in one place for 3 nights instead of changing rooms and all. Travel times to Freiburg from Cochem are only about 30 minutes longer than from Bacharach. And a daytrip to Bacharach and back to Cochem isn't an expensive undertaking - only 26€ round trip with the Rheinland-Pfalz ticket (daypass.)

Lee writes, "If you stay in Bacharach and want to travel in the VRM, you will have to get off in Oberwesel to buy the ticket and catch the next train, an hour later." This is true if you want to buy a VRM ticket to travel within the VRM. But the solution is not to use the VRM Gruppentageskarte (21.20€) in the first place but the Rheinland-Pfalz ticket (26€) instead, which covers the VRM and more, a much larger area than the VRM. Think of the VRM pass as the hole, and the R-P pass as the actual donut + the hole.

Black Forest: Gengenbach is a great choice. Daytrips along the Black Forest Railway are an easy matter from there, and they're free with the Konus card. BF Railway Map of Black Forest area rail lines (BF railway in red, Gengenbach not shown but on the red line near Offenburg.) KONUS card

It's Lindsay and her sister and her parents. The Rheinland-Pfalz-Ticket for four people is 34€. For 21,20€, the Gruppentageskarte is good for up to five people. If you stay in St Goar and want to do the Rhein cruise from Bacharach back to St Goar, buy a ticket from St Goar to Bacharach for 3,50€/P. Then when you buy your K-D ticket in Bacharach, show the Bahn ticket and you'll get a 20% (2,50€) discount on the boat ticket.

Maybe you can clear this up, Lindsay. Does your use of the words "their trip" and "They are traveling by train" mean all 4 of you are on this anniversary trip? It's important to know, if that's the case. As far as the cruise goes... if you (or your parents) are pressed for time for some reason, Bacharach to St. Goar covers a mere 13 km and takes only 40 minutes and it's a very scenic cruise - but with more time, you'll probably want to start not in Bacharach but in Bingen, the southern end of the great scenery (your trip to St. Goar is then about 1.5 hours, 27 km of fine scenery.) Standard cruise fare from Bacharach to St. Goar is 12.50€; Bingen to St. Goar, 18.70€. Present your train ticket at the dock for a 20% discount. Longer trips from Bingen beyond St. Goar to Boppard (about 2.5 hours) or to Braubach (about 3 hours, home of Marksburg Castle) are also popular. KD Schedule

Thank you everyone for the speedy replies! To clarify, it is just my parents taking this trip. This one is all about the two of them. It sounds like Frankfurt to Cochem for 3 nights with a day trip to Bacharach and a Rhine River tour is the way to go, followed by 2 nights in Gengenbach. I've done some European trips where I have been changing hotels every two nights, and it can be a real grind. I believe my parents would much rather have a base and be willing to do a long day trip without hauling about luggage. Any tips on rail tickets from Frankfurt to Cochem? I assume that it will be more cost effective for my parents to buy individual and regional tickets rather than a EuroRail Pass... The second half of the trip is a train to Gimmelwald, then Gimmelwald to southern France, from there to Paris. Thanks again for the helpful travel tips!

"Any tips on rail tickets from Frankfurt to Cochem?" They'll be traveling from FRA, not Frankfurt itself, so when you search for train connections on the date you have in mind, use these station names: Frankfurt(M)Flughafen Cochem(Mosel) Tickets: Normal fare is 61€ for two on the local/regional trains, or 68€ for two if they use the high-speed trains. Best deal (34.50€) involves the local/regional trains and 2 tickets - one VRM (local transit authority) ticket for two at 4.25€ each for FRA to Mainz, and a second ticket - the Rheinland-Pfalz Ticket for two at 26€ - which gets them from Mainz to Cochem. Both tickets can be bought at FRA from a ticket machine. High-speed trains will cover only part of the route, and they reduce the travel time by only 20-30 minutes, so they aren't all that valuable for this route. Note that FRA has two stations - if they get the "deal" tickets, they'll leave from the Regionalbahnhof station for sure. High-speed trains from FRA generally depart from the Fernbahnhof station. Both stations are right at FRA and easy to find. To find eligible local/regional trains at the DB itinerary page for the "deal" tickets above, be sure to enter station names and dates carefully and to specify "only local transport" under "means of transport." Once itineraries come up, you'll see station names, departure and arrival times, the number of changes required, etc.; click on the white-on-red arrow at the left of each one to see more travel details (platforms, etc.) HERE is the DB itinerary page.

(Cont.) If your parents travel to Cochem on a weekday, know that there is a before-9-am ban on using the R-P ticket from Mainz onward. This will only be a potential problem for them if they're getting in to FRA before 7 am or so. Before they leave Mainz, they will have a good bit of time tied up in getting through passport control, luggage, customs, ATMs, and then getting to the station and buying tickets and reaching Mainz in the first place. Also... you may actually find cheaper advance-sales-fare tickets for two (like 29€) for FRA to Cochem using the high speed trains (and if you search using "all" under "means of transport.") But because these tickets are train-specific, they may have to forfeit them if they don't board the train in time (if there's a flight delay, or whatever) so they aren't the value they appear to be. When your parents travel from Cochem to Gengenbach, those same advance-sales fares may become a very good value - they'll get to G'bach a good bit faster and might find fares under 50€ for two, and they'll have a lot more control over whether they reach their train in time.

Lindsay, We just returned from three nights in Cochem and five in St. Goar. While St. Goar is centrally located, allowing us to travel up and down the river, Cochem would be a good choice for three nights celebrating a 40th. Russ's suggestion of visiting Bacharach on a day trip but going to Bingen to start their river trip is excellent. Let me add that if I were to return to Cochem, I'd stay across the river from the castle and main part of town, in the smaller area, because not only is it quieter and more relaxing, but you also get to look across the river at the beautiful view. The walk across the bridge to the central area is 5-10 minutes at the most.

I normally like St. Goar better than Bacharach, but over the past year, the road along the riverfront in St. Goar has undergone all sorts of construction. I'm not sure if it's finished yet, but it looked pretty ugly for a few months. The main road in Bacharach was flooded out earlier this summer, but last time I saw it, they had cleaned up most of the debris and repaired the majority of the damage. One problem with Bacharach, though..."soaking in the culture." Which is largely North Americans walking around with their moneybelts and Blue Books, and the restaurants, hotels and trinket shops that serve them. If you want to avoid this, consider a stay in Oberwesel, Assmannshausen, Bingen or Boppard instead.

Bets writes, "Let me add that if I were to return to Cochem, I'd stay across the river from the castle and main part of town, in the smaller area, because not only is it quieter and more relaxing..." The other side of the river is the more modern Cochem-Cond and gets praise for its sunny location - the old town on the other side gets fewer rays because of its location against the hillside and the taller, denser buildings. But I've never thought of the old town as un-quiet. My old town digs in Cochem have always been very quiet except for the morning birds. I'm curious where you stayed, Bets. Moselstrasse and Endertstrasse get traffic, but the old town is mostly pedestrianized and closed to all but local residents and businesses, and I've always thought anywhere in that part would be pretty quiet. I guess not.

For longer trips where you might benefit by using the high speed trains, then advance tickets are a great bargain. Book online 92 days in advance. Our (wife and I) FRA - Gengenbach ticket next month is only 29 euros for the both of us.

@Russ, It was Pension Gundert, halfway between the train station and the TI. However, it was inside the town, the pedestrian area, that was filled with people, but I have to admit, it was the last half of July when many, many Germans vacation on the Mosel, in addition to the tour buses that bring visitors for the day. It would certainly be calmer outside of July and August. (Must remark that the towns on the Rhine have the opposite problem. You'll see hotels and restaurants closed and/or for sale, since it's not a vacation area for water sports Finally, in Bacharach, I highly recommend a tour with a local guide. RS lists three. We were lucky enough to tour with Thomas Gundlach, a licensed guide, born and raised in Bacharach.

Thanks for the response, Bets. Pension Gundert lies toward the north end of Cochem and is very handy to the station, but it's in a fairly modern area just a few meters off the Moselstrasse where traffic is not restricted - I haven't stayed in the area but I can see why it might be less than peaceful, if that was your impression; it's not in the old town, at least not the way I think of it anyway, which is that area south of Endertstrasse centered on the Marktplatz and where the old town wall remnants, towers, narrow streets and older half-timbered buildings are found. It is this zone where Cochem is at its most charming, I think. In summer a small part of the old town near the Marktplatz and on adjacent streets is completely abuzz with visitors during the daytime, just as you say, but no tour buses can enter the area, only residents and the occasional delivery truck, and the area is quite peaceful in the evenings and early mornings, overall a fine area to stay in, IMO, especially if you find a place a couple of blocks south or west of the Marktplatz, or to just wander around. But yes, the views of the river and the castle from the other river bank are spectacular.