travelling through north and western Europe July 2013 with kids

Tania, this sounds like a wonderful trip for your daughters - and you! My parents & I took my daughter to the UK when she was 10, and I could tell you some of the things we enjoyed including the Tower of London, Bodiam Castle, Hastings, Warwick Castle, Hadrian's Wall - but we are major history geeks, so our interests might not be yours. What are your daughters' interests? History? Hiking? Art? If they haven't already, get them started reading books set in the places you are considering - I would suggest the Royal Diaries if they have any interest in history . I would suggest you read Take Your Kids to Europe, which I found very helpful. Also read Rick's Europe Through the Back Door; that has all kinds of good information including itineraries, hotel recommendations, etc. If you are going in July, I would start in the south and head north; it will be hot in Italy in early July and will likely get hotter through the month. Openjaw is definitely the way to go.
Do you have any family connections to any of these places, any ancestral towns or villages? That could be a good stop even if there don't seem to be major "sights" there, and could be a way to mix some relaxing time in with the big cities. I look forward to hearing more about your plans as they progress. Good luck and have fun!

I think you may need to rethink the Railpass, first of all, they are often NOT available in the country of use, must be purchased ahead of time from your country. And I think you need different railpasses for UK and Europe, so price savings may be doubtful. I am no expert on railpasses though, we have a few here though that I am sure will chime in with some more specific advice.
Secondly, depending on how many places you go, point to point tickets bought well in advance can be cheaper option, even flying believe it or not.. Also for Eurostar( Paris to London, downtown to downtown in 2.5 hours) you can get those tickets cheap if you purchase well in advance when the tickets go on sale( usually 90-120 days in advance of voyage) Tania, 5 or 6 countries in 4 weeks with two younger kids, personally, I would pare it down a bit. Basing yourself in an apartment while in London and Paris is a great option, more room for kids, and a small kitchenette to keep costs down ( even if you are not into cooking , breakfast and coffees at home save ) My kids loved Warwick, Eiffel Tower, Notre Dame Towers, and the Beefeater tour at Tower of London, the Coliseum, Versailles, we haven't been to Scotland or Ireland though.

Congratulations on an exciting trip to look forward to! Your girls are very fortunate. We started doing something similar in 2007 when our children were 11, 8 and 4 and we loved it so much we did it again and again. I will send you a personal message with our blog addresses if you have any interest in reading about what we did and how we did it. A person could spend a month in any of those places you mentioned, so doing them all, while possible, would only be skimming the surface. There is generally nothing wrong with being frequently on the move - that fits some people's travel style better than long stays - but it is a little harder on the children. I assume that you hope to give them great memories they can recall for a lifetime. The longer you stay in one location the more deeply the memories are driven. There are practical considerations, too. While an adult can see four museums in a day and still want to take an evening stroll through town, even the best child traveler won't. They'll want to be done by 5pm, eat and relax. Lodgings are an issue. Rooms for four can be had, but they are not the norm. In some hotels you will have no choice but to get 2 rooms at double the cost. To avoid this, you have to do a lot of research and emailing to find those affordable rooms for 4, or use youth hostels (which your children will love and are much quieter and more family-oriented than you might expect), or rent an apartment. We love apartments. The lodging cost is roughly half the cost of hotels, three times the space, and allows you to eat for less than half the cost if you eat in. But you have to stay for at least three nights and preferably a week. How to get from one place to another will be a planning challenge. City to city, your best bet is the train, and your best bet there is buying point-to-point tickets, well ahead of time if possible. Passes almost never save money...

(continued...) If it were me trying to do your trip (and it's very unlikely my preferences will match yours, but just as an example...) here is what I would try to do assuming each of the countries you mentioned was non-negotiable; Fly into London 4 nights in London, then train to Cambridge 2 nights in Cambridge, then rent a car and drive to Edinburgh 3 nights in Scotland wherever you prefer, then drive back south to the Cotswolds area for 2 nights (maybe Bath?). Then drive back to London early to catch the train to Paris Return the car - that's a 5-day rental Paris for a full week in an apartment (Versailles on one of those days & maybe another day trip out of the city) Night train from Paris to Venice (4-person couchette can be had for 220euro total if bought early & you'll have the cabin to yourselves) 2 nights in Venice, train to Siena Rent a car and stay for a week in a Tuscan cottage in or near any one of the characteristic towns. Return car - that's a 1-week rental. Train to Rome. 3 nights in Rome. Fly home. That's 31 nights, if I counted correctly - maybe slightly more than you were planning on, but the two 1-week apartment rentals will only cost as much as one week spent differently. So it's a bargain finacially, plus it's SOOOO much nicer for a family. Note that this plan has no 1-night stops, which is nice. Also note that the plan would be greatly simplified by either skipping Scotland or finding an economical flight to begin your trip there. Enjoy the planning and dreaming! That's almost my favorite part. You can have an amazing experience! PS; A private message can be seen by logging in like you would to post, then click on "My Profile" in the upper right...

I want randy to plan my next trip! Seriously, he has given you a great start on a trip that you can begin to fine tune. Along with specific places to visit his plan has what I consider to be some of the best family travel tips: Mix up city and country stays. Try to stay at least once in one location for a full week. Our family had a week in a Tuscan agriturismo in between stays in cities. and the kids really loved it.
Mix up driving and other forms of transportation. My kids loved the trains, ferries we took on our various trips. The one overnight train trip was a great adventure! But we also found that car travel for a family of 4 allowed us to see places that we might not have gotten to with public transport. I tried to limit drive times to no more than 4 hours as this allowed us time for breakfast and then I'd usually research a spot or two in between starting and ending point and we'd pick up lunch, visit the site etc. it would take us "all day" to reach our next hotel but we saw things on the way. One thing if I were you-I would book ALL accommodations ahead of time. The temptation with som much vacation time is to just go with the flow, stay longer where you want. But traveling with 4 is more difficult. Especially if you like "charming" places, then set your itinerary and start researching and booking places to stay. The least charming but most expensive stays have been the ones I didn't book ahead of time. You are traveling in high season (whichis what we did with our kids) so don't be spontaneous in regards to where you sleep at night! One change I'd make to Randy's suggestion is to do Ireland instead of Scotland. I only say this because we have not done Scotland with our kids. They loved Ireland though and we had good hikes in the Burren-it was our most outdoorsy trip. It is also one of the cheaper airports to fly to from the states at least. Have a great trip!

If you and the kids are interested in ancient history in nearly every culture, the British Museum is a must. It is free of charge, and easily accessed by the Tube. Some of the most famous exhibits on display are the Rosetta Stone and the Elgin Marbles. BTW, it's never too early to plan for a trip like yours! :)

Also, here are some helpful links for London: www.tfl.gov.uk (London underground, etc.) www.londontoolkit.com www.britishmuseum.org

I want to THANK everyone for all their wonderful ideas and suggestions. There is a lot you have all mentioned that I haven't even considered. I will definitely check out all your wonderful ideas for food, sight seeing and accomodation. An apartment never seemed a viable option, but now that seems like a great idea. I believe that we are going to pare the trip down to Ireland, Scotland (a must as both my husband and I are half Scots) England, France and Italy. Thanks Randy for sending me your blog link. I will definatley sit and read through it all. I think that is a wonderful way to record your trip. Also for the amazing Itinerary. I might be sending you a note in the future if I run into a block!! Thanks Kathleen for the reading suggestions!! Pat for the Rail pass info, definitley rethinking that. Karen for the BOOK AHEAD for accomodations, that was a big concern of mine. To Jill, thanks for the links and museum info!! Great to have travelling on a budget for such a long time. And to Ron, for the health advice. We are advid hikers and love the ruins and old castles as well as the less touristy areas. My kids can hike (walk) about 12-15 miles a day with no problems. Here in Ontario we live right on the Bruce Trail which runs from Niagara Falls to Tobermory and this is a huge benefit for us. We also love history and architecture. I will let you know how eveything develops!! Thanks so much!! Love reading all your posts!! :)

Tania, You are very welcome! "I believe that we are going to pare the trip down to Ireland, Scotland (a must as both my husband and I are half Scots) England, France and Italy." Adding Ireland is not conducive to "paring down" LOL :) If you're did add it to your itinerary, you would want to begin there and you might consider using the Irish national airline, Aer Lingus, which flies out of Chicago, Boston, NYC, and a couple other eastern US cities. They often have lower prices than others, good reviews, and excellent connections to London, Scotland, and elsewhere in Europe. We are using them this year by buying tickets 8 months early(!!) and it worked - got the lowest prices by far of any I've seen since. You will have that same opportunity since you are planning ahead. If I were to add Ireland to the trip this is one way; (continued...)

Fly into Dublin (or if possible, Shannon, since it's in a more iconic Ireland location) Rent a car for 5 days and plan a circular route (or stay in one place and take lengthy day trips) around southwestern Ireland. Fly to Glasgow, Scotland. Rent a car for 4 days, spending them in Scotland (if you want to see the Highlands, you'll have to be on the move every day because it's far north, otherwise, you can base yourself in the south and not move around so much). Drive south to Cambridge and drop the car. Spend 2 nights. Early train to London. 3 nights in London. Train to Paris. 4 nights in Paris. (fewer apartment choices for less than a week in Paris, but it can be done). Night train to Venice... 2 nights in Venice. Train to Siena. Rent a car for a week in an apartment in Tuscany. Drop car. Train to Rome for 3 nights. Fly home. That's still 31 nights. When you add countries without adding time, you tend to become more urban-centric in an attempt to hit "the biggies". For a family like yours that is outdoorsy, that makes me nervous. Be sure you adopt a balance of urban/rural that fits your personalities. I hope my blog is helpful (feel free to skim & skip many parts) and please do ask via Private Message if you have questions. One more note; Your itinerary question is not really limited to the "North" category here. That's why you have gotten relatively few responses. I would post a similar question again, with a title something like "A Month in Europe - Family of 4 Itinerary Suggestions?" in the category of "General Europe". Randy

We took our 2 kids to Europe for 4 1/2 weeks in May of 2001 when they were 11 and 13. It was a wonderful adventure. We ended up going back several times. We pack in backpacks. Part of the adventure is getting by with less and it is so much easier to get around than with suitcases. We started in England with a car and then used railpasses for the rest of our trip. The pass may not save money, but if the cost is similar I would go with the pass. No need to buy tickets unless it's a train that requires a reservation. Train travel is very relaxing. We had fun picking out food for our picnic on the train and no worries about what road to take. After England we visited Belgium, Germany, Austria, Italy, Switzerland and ended in Paris. We were fine with moving frequently and planned vacations from our vacation. For us that means small towns and no museums. I do think it's good to have your rooms booked ahead of time. Getting into a new town and then looking for a room is just a recipe for crankiness for kids and parents. We stayed in B&Bs and small hotels and it worked great. We all shared rooms sometimes and sometimes the kids had a separate room. The Lauterbrunnen Valley Hostel was a lovely place to stay to visit Murren and do some day hikes in Switzerland. In my experience even the day that doesn't go just right ends up being part of the good memories. Keep in mind that large cities in the summertime can be hot and tiring.
I would expect Rome to be quite warm in July. Personally I would skip it or at least choose a cool and refreshing hotel to return to at the end of each day. The Cinque Terra or Lake Como area would be fun as would a B&B in Tuscany with a pool to enjoy after sightseeing. We've been to Italy in May, July and Oct and July was definitely not the best month. Whatever you decide I'm sure you will have a lovely trip.