Scotland/England Transportation, etc.

Jim- I'm not certain you will need a car- certainly you will NOT want one in Edinburgh! As to what you should see, that depends alot on you, your wife and your mother-in-law. You say it's a family heritage trip. Have they done any preliminary research? Do they know their clan/sept/family affiliations, the area it is associated with them along with clan castle(s), homes, gardens, etc.? If so, you could plan some of the trip around seeing that. What are the general interests of your group? Art, Nature, Gardens, Architechture, History- any particular period? Are you more intersted in cities, or do you want more countyside, or a mix? Do you want any 'outdoor actvities'? Are there any physical limitations you need to deal with? Are you iterested in whisky? If so, do you have a particular preference for brand or style? There are some great distilleries (and pubs) you can vist all over Scotland. BritRail passes used to be a great bargain. They are not quite that any more. However they do offer one thing that I value- flexibility. Much of Scotland can be seen using the rail system (that's the way we do it- and we LOVE Scotland). Others on this board love driving the 'wee roads' (Pamela is quite the expert). We don't want to have to navigate the narrow, winding roads- on the left, too, pay the VERY high price for petrol (gas) and search for scarce, expensive parking. Also, neither of us drives a straight shift, and automatics are scarce. Since you want to take the train to London, do you want to do the Caledonian Sleeper or do you want a daytime train? Do you plan to travel from Edinburgh or Glasgow? Lots of possibilties, that's why we need a bit more information - so we can make good recommendations for you.
Also, how long will you be in London?

Thank you Toni. I'll have to check with them on the questions in your post. The family name is Lawrie and I don't know more than that. This has been a dream for my mother-in-law for years and with her being 87 and in good health it was either do it now or probably never. I took them on a similar trip to Italy in 2007 and they liked museums, churches, art, open air markets, castles, etc. We did everything by train, bus tours, taxis and the hop on hop off busses in Rome and Paris. We plan to have three days in London before returning home. Is that enough, or should we cut short Scotland to add a day? I figured we would need a car to see the countryside, but if it can be done by using Edinburgh as a base and taking day trips by train or bus I'm ok with that. Was thinking of Britrail to get from Edinburgh to London and a few unknown adventures and trying to decide on how many days to get on it.

Whether you need a car to see the countryside, depends on where you want to go. I did a quick on-line search and Lawrie seems to be a sept/family of the McLauren Clan who seem to be based in the Dumfrieshire area (specifically Balquhidder), which is a lowlands/borders area, south of Edinburgh. I am not too familiar with that area as we have traveled more around Aviemore (in the Caringorm Mts. and my favorite village) and Inverness (my favorite Scottish city). We often spend a day or 2 in Edinburgh, then take the train to Aviemore for 2-4 days (it is a great base to tour the Speyside whisky distilleries and for walks, etc.) then take the train to Inverness for a longer stay. Inverness makes a great base as there are LOTS of tours into the highlands and the islands. It's tourist office is one of the best I've ever seen. We abolutely LOVE the UK- especially London and Scotland. So feel free to ask any questions (we've been more than 40 times).
Private message me with your email and I'll share an article I wrote about doing day trips out of London by train. If you can extend your trip to have a week in London and a week or more in Scotland, I think you would be able to pace yourselves better.

Jim, we're travelling without a car right now in UK. While I wouldn't want to be driving in the cities (parking & traffic), it would be handy to have a car for day trips out of the city. For ex, I wanted to check out a place my grandmother stayed but it was 15 miles out of the city. How to get there? Unfortunately, I don't drive a standard. Otherwise I would have booked a car for 1 or 2 days in Scotland. We have used a mix of bus and train, so not sure a Pass would have helped. Major piece of advice: if you can nail down when you'll use bus or train, book well ahead for much cheaper prices. Remember bus is usually longer and much cheaper; and your suitcases go underneath so you don't have to lift them and find space for them. This can be difficult at train stations when making changes between trains. However, trains are easier to get into for seniors. As to London, 3 days is very short but wouldn't want to take the time away from Scotland. Prioritize.
Have fun!

I'm not sure why people seem to think automatics are scarce. Odd thing to say. There are plenty of automatics available for rent. Trains are a nice way of traveling, except, much more of Scotland doesn't have a train service than does. There are three routes to the West. One line to Oban, one line to Fort William and Mallaig (both from Glasgow) and one line from Inverness to Kyle of Lochalsh. All lovely journeys, but that leaves thousands of square miles of the most beautiful part of Britain out of your reach and the only way to see them and some of Scotland's 700 plus islands - the real Scotland - is to rent a car. Don't dream of dropping a day of Scotland to do London. Serious Mistake!!

I just got back from three weeks in Britain, and I can definitely say that getting an automatic, at least through Avis, was a limited choice at best. We picked up our car in York, and even though we had ordered a small sedan (Ford Focus-sized), they had to upgrade us to a Peugot 5008, which is just as big as a minivan, since that was the only automatic they had in stock. They did tell us we could trade it in at their Edinburgh office, but when I got into town there and called, all they had were 10 more Peugots of the same model I was already driving! So, I just had to deal with that big car on the small Scotland and Orkney roads. As for places to go in Scotland, I can definitely recommend driving on the coastal road from Oban up northeast to Glen Coe, then taking the small single-track road just south of Glen Coe down Glen Etive to Loch Etive. It's the ultimate "road to nowhere," but it is a very pretty road that gives you a lot of practice for driving on single-track roads (it's about 15-16 miles from the main road to the loch). Definitely drive through Glen Coe from west to east--it's much more impressive that way!! If you do end up north of Inverness (a recommended stop on its own), head over to Golspie, about 90 minutes north of Inverness, and spend a few hours at Dunrobin Castle, which is a very impressive big estate and grand house, with the added bonus of falconry exhibits twice a day in the summer!

Jim, if you have driven automatic a lot in the US then you don't need to be afraid to drive it in the UK. The pedals are the same and you actually pick up shifting with your left hand rather quickly. You definitely need a car to explore the Borders. Here's a website to explore on family. http://www.yourscottishfamilytree.co.uk/ In the Borders one of the great stories is about the Rievers. Look for Fraser's Book Steel Bonnets. Hermitage Castle is famous as a brooding place and as one of the many places visited by Mary Queen of Scots. The Abbey'sKelso, Jedburgh, Melrose, Drysdale are all interesting. Traqhair House is very interesting. Also, Sir Walter Scott's home Abbotsford is a good tour. I like Neidpath Castle! And while you're headed south check out Hadrian's wall. I think I did see one reference to Perthshire for your family. It's a beautiful area and different from the Borders and so would be a good contrast. Dunkeld, Aberfeldy, Killin and the Glens would be be good. Or further West check out the Trossaches. Pam

We recently traveled from Edinburgh to London on the train. I was caught by surprise be the cost of the train ticket. We did not buy in advance due to uncertainties about our schedule. However, I did look online the day before we left to get an idea about the cost. When I went to the station to buy the tickets, they were twice as expensive! The clerk told me if I had purchased them online, I could have gotten the better price. Learn from my mistake!

We just spent over 2 weeks in May in Scotland and Borders areas. Never needed a car. We intended to purchase ScotRail passes, but found out they would have been a waste of money. Train fares are quite cheap as long as you buy a day ahead or more. Ask about special family or group rates. Also if you are over 55, you may benefit from scotrail's Club 55, which are low priced round trip tickets. We are both over 60, so we bought Senior Railpasses as soon as we arrived in Manchester. They give you 1/3 off almost any train fare anywhere in the UK. Paid for themselves in about 3 days. Bus travel is also a good option and a lot more desireable than in the US. We used the city bus to go to Culloden and Cawdor out of Inverness. Another great option is to book a guided tour from the local tourist office. In Edinburgh, the hop on and hop off buses are a good bet. We took a great castle tour with a tour guide out of Aberdeen. Only 6 people in a van with an extremely knowledgeable guide. The local tourist offices are great for suggesting sites to visit and finding lodging anywhere in the country as well. BTW, I think you can book a tour to St. Andrews from either Edinburgh or Aberdeen, but actually getting on the course-good luck.

Jim - I wouldn't call this fool proof for getting on St Andrews Old Course, but show up early at the starters hut. I've done this a few times and have been successful. Here is a link to St Andrews golf www.standrews.org.uk

Thanks, Joel. When you did this did you have your clubs with you, or did you rent them there? If so, where and how much? I've heard that you have to hire a caddie well in advance of playing, so how does that work with just going there in the morning to see the starter?

Thanks to everyone for your help. Checked out getting a rental car instead of a Britrail pass today. I was looking at various maps on Google and downloaded Google Earth for the first time. Big help on the major roads, but more confusing on smaller ones. For example. easy to get from Edinburg to Glasgow, but seems impossible to get to Oban to catch the ferry to Iona. In Rick's DVD of Scotland he went there in a car with his family. Are there good roads there or is it better to take a train or maybe a bus tour.

Advice to avoid driving in Edinburgh is well taken. You almost certainly would be paying the rental fee and the parking fee while the car just sat there. Rather than renting a car in Edinburgh, touring, then returning the car back to Edinburgh, I'd be very tempted to simplify things by going by train from Edinburgh to my first stop of the tour and picking up the rental car there. When the tour's done, return the car, catch the train to Edinburgh, and then to London. Fewer automatics are offered for rent. Booking in advance is a necessity for a rental anyway, so just specify an automatic. Expect to pay more, too. It's probably a good idea to get a car with GPS, if it's offered. If the Edinburgh-London trip is the only train you will use, I doubt the pass would save you money. But, the only way to know is to compare costs online. Edinburgh is a place to see on foot, with cabs and buses when you need them. The walk up to the castle can be pretty steep in parts, so take a cab if that's an issue. (It's a much easier walk if you're already in Old Town, though.) The weather could be a little chilly that time of year, too.

We drove from Edinburgh to just outside of Oban a few weeks ago. There are A roads the whole way there. If you go to Undiscoveredscotland.co.uk, there is a good basic map of the area http://www.undiscoveredscotland.co.uk/ustours/oban-glencoe/index.html.