Planning a trip to Holland

Richard, As this is your first trip to Europe, my first suggestion is to read the Guidebook Europe Through The Back Door. It will provide you with a lot of information on "how" to travel in Europe. You should be able to find a copy at your local Library or larger bookstores. You might also have a look at Guidebooks for the Netherlands, as that will provide ideas on sightseeing that might interest you. Amsterdam is a very vibrant city and you should find lots to see there. The Pubs and restaurants are open well into the evening. If you want to sample a few Museums and Galleries, there's the Rijksmuseum and Van Gogh Museum (they're close to each other). Is there a particular reason that you're taking a Ferry across to the Netherlands? Using one of the budget airlines would be quicker and probably cheaper. I did a brief search and found EasyJet flights from Gatwick, Southend, Luton and Stanstead to Amsterdam, with "base fares" as low as £24.99. Good luck with your planning!

Thanks for all the info. The main reason I chose the ferry is because I've seen it on TV, and heard about it from people, and heard it is fun. And also in another one of my posts on here, in which I didn't realize, someone pointed out to me that my rail pass for the whole time I'm in NL is included in the Rail and Sail cost of the Dutch Flyer. I will mostly be in and around Tilburg, as that's where my friend lives, but we may make it to Amsterdam just to have the "I've been there" fulfilled. So my main cities will be Hoek van Holland, as the ferry stop, and Rotterdam as the train transfer to Tilburg. So anything nice between would be nice too. I would also be traveling just basic rail, not high speed, so I assume stopping between my destinations would be easier? Also, I'm a big beer person, so I would like to see the best breweries and taste the best beer. I've already chosen to see the Trappist brewery just outside of Tilburg.... Any other suggestions are welcome...thanks.

Richard, As you're a "beer person", I would strongly recommend making a brief stop somewhere in Belgium while you're in that area. There are 100+ different types of Beer available, and Belgian Beer (and of course Chocolate) are world renowned. I was there in September and sampled some great Beer (unfortunately I can't remember the names, but one type I tried was a "Triple").

Well, Nigel...if I buy a round trip ferry ticket...then in theory that should include a rail pass to AND from my city, correct? Technically that would be travel anywhere in NL included, but NOT unlimited...which I really don't need anyway. I will probably end up staying in Tilburg, and if not, I will be with a NL native going to Amsterdam for the day, so I wont have any issues navigating and figuring things out then. I also got Rosetta Stone Dutch, and am currently teaching myself Dutch, so I may be able to get by a little better, though my friend in NL told me most Dutch speak English. Thanks for the tips.

someone pointed out to me that my rail pass for the whole time I'm in NL is included in the Rail and Sail cost of the Dutch Flyer Richard, I think you may have the wrong end of the stick on that one. The ticket does, indeed, include transit to any Dutch City. But that's not a pass. It is for one continuous trip in one direction from where you land at Hoek to your destination (Tilburg). Tilburg is in the south of the country between Dortrecht and Eindhoven. I would expect that the NS (Nederlandse Spoorwegen - the Dutch railway) authorities would frown on going from Hoek in the south to Tilburg in the south via Amsterdam in the north.

In Amsterdam (a wonderful city), most young people, and a lot of older people, speak excellent English. Apparently as children they all watched American TV. I don't know the situation in the rest of the nation, but would be surprised if you had trouble finding an English-speaker.

Als u Rosetta Stone gebruikt, dan kunt u zeggen onzin als "Het klein meisje staat achter de rode auto", maar zult u toch niet met Nederlanders kunnen spreken of wat om Nederlands schrift te lezen. Translation- If you use Rosetta Stone, you'll be able to say rubbish like "The small girl stands behind the red car", but you won't be able to converse with Dutch people or read any Dutch writing. Rosetta Stone is useful only for a stripped-down introduction to the mechanics of very simple Dutch. The only benefit of it, in my opinion, is that it teaches you enough that you can use better resources like the far superior "Tell Me More" series. Trying to learn a foreign language is always commendable, but as soon as you try to speak Dutch in the Netherlands (or the Flemish section of Belgium), don't be surprised if you are answered in flawless English.

Richard, I've done the Rail and Sail package that you refer to, and Nigel is correct, it is not an "unlimited travel" pass. It provides you with rail passage from Hoek van Holland to your destination, without breaks in your journey except to join connecting services( eg train connections). Same for return journey. So if you plan any train travel above and beyond that, you must purchase regular tickets. So, for example, if you thought that perhaps you'd take the overnight ferry, catch the train from Hoek van Holland to Rotterdam in the morning, spend the day in Rotterdam, then continue on your journey that evening to your final destination, you may have a problem if and when your ticket is checked I found this package to be quite reasonable if you're taking the overnight ferry, as it covers one nights accommodations in addition to the transportation.
As for the ferry being "fun".....well, it's just a ferry, not a cruiseline or anything. Yep, it has a bar, dining, etc, but it's still just a ferry...

Thanks to everyone for the continued thoughts...and Tom, I don't know about most people, but I don't intend to just stick to the program, and that's all. I'm a very smart, quick learner, and of course will find something else to go to after learning the basics of the language, as well as finding a dutch chat room, or voice chatting with my dutch friend, as to hone the language. I appreciate your opinion though, and will look into the program you suggested. Any more opinions, or suggestions for things to do would be nice. Thanks to everyone.

For starters, get this book: http://www.amazon.com/Basic-Dutch-Grammar-Workbook-Workbooks/dp/0415774438 There's a lot of important basics of Dutch grammar that you simply can't infer from the method Rosetta Stone uses. Most importantly, they don't explain the pattern of verb conjugation across tenses (it is predictable and follows a regular pattern, but impossible to figure out through Rosetta Stone), and they make no effort to explain some of the complexities of word order. Get used to hearing the patterns of Dutch speech (on Rosetta Stone, the voices are unnaturally slow). To get accustomed to the standard dialects clearly annunciated but spoken at a natural pace, try watching the streamed newcasts online. For standard Netherlands Dutch, NOS Journaal: http://nos.nl/nieuws/ For standard Flemish Dutch, VTM Het Nieuws:
http://vtm.be/nieuws Both the standard Netherlands and Flemish accents are mutually intelligible.

It would be helpful to learn some basic Dutch vocabulary for specifics, like trains, to be able to read the signage. There are listings in the stations of the train schedules - all in Dutch. If you can't read them, you are doomed to stand in (a possibly long) line waiting to speak to a person. I haven't been in a situation in the Netherlands where I couldn't find someone who spoke English - it seemed to me that everyone did. I did have some trouble on the train once going through Belgium. I was traveling north from Paris and had obviously left the French-speaking south behind. No one on the train seemed to speak English and absolutely NO French.

I will be staying along my route from Hoek to Rotterdam to Tilburg only, so I'm not going to worry about Belgium, or any sort of thing like that. Tom, where are Natural and Flemish Dutch spoken? If I stick to my route will I mainly see one or the other in those areas? I would imagine its a dialect depending on the area of NL I'm in. I have already been going to some Dutch business sites just to read the information pages, to see how much I can get just from lesson 1 of Rosetta, and I do know a lot of the words, verbs, and nouns, and proper nouns already. I did see an interview on one of the beer sites in Dutch, and was actually surprised when I heard how fast he spoke...I live in Arizona currently, so am used to the fast speaking Spanish, but Dutch is just as fast, if not faster. As I said..I'm a very quick learner, and pick up things that a lot of people don't. I have already inferred the pattern of a lot of the verbs and adjectives, in the order they are spoken and why. I'm sure it'll only get deeper into all the stuff as I go on. The reason I originally picked Rosetta is because I know people that have used it for other languages, and love it, so I will still stick with it for now, then go to other things after. Thanks for the train info Chani.

Flemish is spoken in the Flemish area of Belgium (and a tiny bit in some border areas of French Flanders). Dutch is spoken in the Netherlands. Up in the islands around Texel it is a strong dialect.

The traditional border between the Vlaams and Hollands (to use the Dutch terms) dialect map is the Moerdijk, which roughly means the border between the provinces of Noord Brabant and Zuid-Holland. Like all language borders, though, this is less fixed than once was the case. As I noted before, the two standard versions of the dialects (ie, the accents used by newscasters) are completely mutually intelligible, but the differences are obvious. In Hollands, the "g" is much more gutteral, and the "s" can sound more like "sh". Vowels tend to have a different pronunciation that's difficult to render in writing, but easy to appreciate when you hear it. Hollands speakers also tend to drop the final "n" in many words when talking fast, moreso than in Vlaams. There are some minor variations in vocabulary, but the biggest difference is that Vlaams speakers often use "gij" ("ge" unemphasized) for the singular, familiar form of "you", instead of "jij". To a Hollands speaker, this is like someone addressing you in English as "thou".

Thats good to know Tom...thanks. But if I understand you correctly, really, if I learn Dutch enough to speak it, anyone in the country will understand it just the same, no matter which they speak. Also good to know that if I can't think of the words, or just don't learn it well enough by the time I go, I can still speak English. Anyone have any more ideas on places to go...nude beaches? cool night life? people watching? I've never done a nude beach, but have always been much of a more "open" person when it comes to that, and wanted to try it whilst in Europe....

Richard, Regarding the language issue, you won't have any problem at all communicating in English in the Netherlands. Children there are fluent in several languages (including English) by the time they graduate from high school. As someone else mentioned, you'll probably find that the locals often prefer to use English. While in Amsterdam, you may find it interesting to visit a "Coffee Shop" and / or the Red Light District. Walking tours of the Red Light district are available with local Guides, and they provide a very "informative" tour.

"But if I understand you correctly, really, if I learn Dutch enough to speak it, anyone in the country will understand it just the same, no matter which they speak". I have more experience with this situation in Belgium, where I find the local Antwerpse and West Vlaamse dialects very difficult to understand. But the standard dialects are universally understood in both countries, and even someone who normally speaks in the most indecipherable accent can revert to something approaching the standard if needed (see below): Usually with a non-native speaker, though, they'll try English first. This comedy video makes fun of the difficulty that everyone else has understanding West Vlaams speakers, who are usually subtitled on TV, even in Belgium. The speaker is requesting that West Flemish people not be subtitled on TV and that everyone else make a little more effort to understand them. As each appeal proves unsuccessful, he becomes more frustrated. So instead of being subtitled... he is dubbed in standard Flemish. The sign he shows at the end (which is mispelled) translates roughly to "Y'all can kiss my balls." http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QE57zsos1AM&feature=related And no, without the subtitles I would barely be able to understand him.