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Living in the UK question continued

Hello all, I recently posted a question about living in the UK, and I know this isn't a 'travel' enquiry, I know there enough Brits on here who can offer me advice or at least point me in the right direction. As mentioned in an earlier posting, following my recent trip to London, I've decided to move back permanently. I was born in the UK, so that isn't the issue. The issue I'm facing is the fact I've left it possibly too late in life. I'm 49 years old and I haven't worked in the UK (my family emigrated when I was 10), so I haven't paid into the system. I hopefully (God willing), have another 16 or more years where I can work and contribute. But upon checking the British pension web site I saw that in order to get a full basic pension I have to have worked for 30 years or more, or I can work for the 16+ years I'm calculating and make voluntary contributions on top of that. My question is this....even if I get a full pension, it is only just over 107.00 GBP per week for a single person. As I won't be able to own my home this late in life, I'm wondering how I would live? Would I be eligible for some sort of reduced housing, rental assistance? I was just thinking because 107.00 GBP wouldn't be enough to cover rent, food, bills etc. Can anyone offer any assistance in clearing this up for me?? Thank you.

Posted by
446 posts

Assume the government website where you looked up the current detail on pensions was dwp.gov.uk. The £107 is the current full basic state pension. You need 30 years contributions to obtain full state pension. State pension age is increasing and will be age 66 by the end of this decade. And then 67 shortly thereafter. In addition to basic state pension there is something called Second State Pension (SSP), which is a flat rate addition (details of this should be on the website above). You accrue this when you work and pay national insurance contributions. There is a "pension credit" which can boost a single pensioners income to about £135 per week - I dont know how this works exactly, again should be described on the government website. There is also a benefit for housing, but not sure how this relates. There are various changes going on at the moment to the benefit system - the government are trying to rein it in. However, the government is currently looking to reorganise state pension provision so that basic state pension is about £140 a week and there is no second state pension or pension credit. Supposed to start about 2015, but looking to be somewhat delayed as they haven't issued any detail yet as its all so complicated. In addition to the state provision there is new pension provision coming in over the next few years - referred to as auto-enrolment (AE), this would be the next tier, after basic and SSP. Employer and employee contribute to a fund to provide a further amount of pension to be taken on retirement.
Where in the UK would you be planning to settle, outside of London money goes a lot further.

Posted by
92 posts

Hi Katy, thanks for all that information. Yes it was the same web site you mention, but I must admit I was a little pressed for time, so just quickly skimmed through it. I have friends who live in Shrewsbury, and so that's where I'll be moving to. It's a beautiful area, with good train service to wherever I need to go to get work, if I can't get anything locally, and it will help having friends close by. I didn't want to live in the 'big city', preferring to live more out in the country, yet still be somewhere not isolated if that makes sense? Once again, thanks for the information. Naturally things will probably have changed multiple times when it comes time for me to retire, but if I can put something in place now it will help. I'm also assuming I would be eligible for a part Australian pension, as I worked there for 30 years, and I've worked in the US for the 10 years I've been here, so every little bit helps. Plus I have a superannuation policy preserved for retirement from a government job I had in Australia. So the more I can contribute and save once I begin working, the better off I will be when I retire :)

Posted by
1986 posts

Have you considered how many extra years you would need to work in USA to qualify for USA Social Security? I would seriously consider working at least the minimum in USA to qualify for Soc Sec ... i would investigate- check this- whether you could then possibly qualify for both USA and Brit pensions (or do i remember that you have only been in USA for a short period)

Posted by
32431 posts

The unemployment rate in the UK as a whole at the moment is quite high; in rural provincial areas like Shropshire it is even higher. Will you have found a job before you arrive?

Posted by
13769 posts

The Social Security Adm has info on what you have to do to qualify for benefits in the US. Basically you have to work 40 quarters or 10 years. They have changed how they count a quarter, you used to have to just work one day within a quarter for it to count, now you have to earn a certain dollar amount per year to accrue 40 quarters. The amount currently is $4520.00. The amount of payment you draw is based on the amount of money you earned. You can go to the SSA (dot)gov website and go to the Retirement Planner to project how much you might draw if you have your 40 quarters in. There is doubtless something in their website that also addresses those living out of the US. All checks are direct deposit so that part is easy.

Posted by
5303 posts

There is a reciprocal arrangement between the US and USA for social security which aggregates contributions for pension purposes. You would probably end up with with pensions paid by both countries. How this works is explained in outline at http://www.dwp.gov.uk/international/benefits/state-pension/state-pension-arrangements-in-social/#usa There are non-contributory benefits too in the UK for people with low income but everything is under review at the moment and would be expected to be different by the time you would reach retirement age, but currently could cover rent, council tax and a 'top-up' Pension Credit as already mentioned. At present everyone of pension age (jointly if a couple) receives £200 towards winter heating costs and free bus travel. Over 75s get a free TV licence. I recall that you may too have spent some of your working life in Australia. Something may well have accrued there too but I am not familiar with the details of that.

Posted by
92 posts

Thanks to everyone for the responses. :) Nigel - I am sincerely hoping to have a job by the time I arrive, although I understand that might be difficult because some companies don't like looking at International candidates with their job openings for some reason. But will be looking into it more. Brian - I haven't looked into the US pension situation yet, but that is on my to-do list also. I don't know if there is a required period of time to work in the US, so that would be good to know too. As I worked the required period of time in Australia, hopefully if things work out I would be eligible for both a Brit, Australian AND a US pension, or at least parts thereof. Marco- I will definitely be looking for into the reciprocal agreements again, because I read somewhere yesterday that the one between Australia and the UK I think it was ended in 2002, but will clarify that more because I could be wrong. Thanks again to you all. Will be created a big notebook with notes on everything I need to find out, learn about and research lol. It's good that I don't have a definite time limit but I want to be armed with all the information I need to have before I leave the US.

Posted by
5303 posts

Missed the first time one of your replies where you detailed your Australian contributions - I think when you add everything up you may have rather more pension income due than you may have been first thinking. There isn't currently a reciprocal arrangement with Australia, but that doesn't stop you getting the pension paid from there, only for contributions spent there also counting towards a UK pension.

Posted by
92 posts

Marco - That is what I am hoping too, of course things might have changed by the time I get to retirement age, but it definitely doesn't hurt to enquire. Plus winning the lottery might help..lol

Posted by
32431 posts

some companies don't like looking at International candidates with their job openings for some reason. It is important when considering such a life changing move to get the real facts. They may seem blunt but I wish to avoid possible misunderstanding.
If that would be disturbing, look away now. I'd like you to be successful in fulfilling your dreams. It is an unfortunate truth in England that most middle aged people find it very, very, very extremely hard to land a decent job. The expression often heard is "thrown on the scrapheap". International applicants are bypassed because employment law requires all local applicants be eliminated before immigrants. You may have less of that problem if you indicate that you have (if you do) all your rights as a citizen including abode and work. The government cracks down hard (from time to time) on the employers of illegal immigrants so employers are careful. The cost of living is dramatically higher here than both Australia and the USA. Incomes here are much less than for the same jobs in the USA. I don't know about Australia. Taxes here are much higher than in the USA. Council houses have waiting lists in most places of years not months. Food for thought.

Posted by
92 posts

Nigel, thanks for being the voice of reason. I don't know whether I am looking through this with rose coloured glasses or not, but everything within me wants to make this work. As I have mentioned before I was concerned that I'd left it too late in life to make this big move. But I guess if I don't at least try, then I would probably spend the rest of my life regretting it. I've always thought it best not to compare one country to another, as I've found when travelling in the past. Converting the cost of an item to what I'd pay back 'home' was never productive. Although from the short time I spent recently in the UK I found the prices to be very reasonable, unlike here in the US, with regards to phone, mobile phone bills, internet bills and food costs. You mentioned that incomes are much less in the UK than in the USA for the same jobs? I can't say I'm totally clued up on the wages situation yet, but for an example I will use my last job. I was a 'Unit Secretary' at a hospital and received the equivalent of 5 pound 90 pence per hour. In Australia for the same job I would receive roughly 11.00 GBP per hour. That might sound a lot, but the cost of living in Australia is very high what with rent, food, electricity, gas, petrol, insurance, mobile phone, internet etc etc so it worked out about even in the end. I guess what I am trying to say is, I do appreciate you pointing those things out to me. This is exactly what I want and need to learn about before making the big move. The more prepared I am the better right? I will say it hasn't deterred me, rather it has given me a stronger resolve to MAKE it work. If I can put food on the table and a roof over my head and pay the bills that is all I could ask for. So thanks Nigel...you have always and will always provide the knowledge that anyone could ever need :)

Posted by
1806 posts

I work for a firm with a number of offices overseas & while we will be expanding our presence in places like India and parts of Asia, we will be significantly cutting jobs in the UK and Western Europe throughout 2013. The following appeared online last week: "An extra 200,000 people in Britain may be without a job by this time next year. Unemployment will not peak until 2014, says the OBR, and might not get back to where it is now until the end of 2015. The official figures indicate much of the recent decline in unemployment has been caused by growth in part-time and self-employment, and there was also a summer boost to jobs from the Olympics. The IPPR's analysis, shows long-term unemployment could rise by 32,000 to a total of 926,000. A further 47,000 people over 50 may also become unemployed. The outlook is especially bleak for the long-term unemployed. Hundreds of thousands are at risk of permanent 'scarring' in the labour market: having their long-term outlook damaged by long periods of unemployment or by a difficult and patchy entry into the world of work." Not to discourage you, but do keep pursuing as many options as you can to get back into a full-time position quickly, whether here in the U.S. or abroad. From what I recall, you were laid off before your trip to London. What Nigel says about the scrap heap is pretty accurate. It's harsh, but the reality is that many resumes are immediately tossed aside if the applicant has been out of work for more than a few months, or if they are anywhere near the age of 50. Illegal? Unfair? Absolutely. But it happens & it's even harder for you since you are applying from overseas. Companies will balk at the thought of a relocation package unless you have a special skill that they really need & can't find in the UK. Keep trying, but be prepared to address the challenges.

Posted by
92 posts

Thanks Keith :) Definitely food for thought, but something more to add to my list of research possibilities. In one way it's good I have the 'time' to devote to researching the pros and cons. I'm impatient but realize at the same time that it's senseless to rush into something as big as this without careful planning. I am grateful to all for the advice and it's definitely been of great help to me. The economy isn't good anywhere right now and unemployment is an issue everywhere. I'm having to face that issue right here in the US, so realize that if it's difficult for me here, it's going to be just as difficult if not harder in the UK. But I'm definitely going to give up trying! At least not without a fight. :)

Posted by
446 posts

Agree with Nigel and others above re the ageism you will find when searching for a job in the UK (but suspect this is the same in the US). I was made redundant seven years ago when my employer closed down and it took me two years to find a suitable permanent post (although I did work in those two years I had to accept some far from ideal placements). It was very frustrating as I knew that if I'd been 15-20 years younger there would have been many more jobs available to me. However, having said that, there are employers who have strong HR departments who do try to overcome ageist attitudes.
I'm not sure what your work experience and qualifications are, and hence what sort of organisations you would be applying to, but as commented above you could look at some of the job websites to get some sort of idea of what you could expect. One I have tried in the past is reed.co.uk - which is used by most recruitment agencies to post jobs and search for candidates who have posted a CV.

Posted by
3580 posts

I understand your desire to return to the UK now. However, it makes more sense to me that you work another 10 years in the US if you have a job, then plan to move. Your US social security will be enhanced by working longer, and your chances of employment in the UK might be just as good in 10 years as now. In the meanwhile, you could upgrade your skills to suit a work-life in the UK. Learn another language? Learn the hotel business? Learn a health skill? Are there American companies that send employees to the UK?

Posted by
964 posts

Hi Linzi, Since what you're thinking of doing mirrors closely what I have done, I can tell help you quite a bit I think- but I'll send you a PM for privacy.
What Nigel says about employment for anyone over 40 is too true. But there is one area you could work in and tha's care work. I think anywhere in the UK they are desperate for people to work helping older people who live at home but can't manage; or in an actual care home. The wages are not good- but it can be very rewarding work. Maggie

Posted by
92 posts

Thanks to Swan and Maggie for your comments, and as I sit here I realize that it's going to be difficult but not totally impossible to achieve my dream. Unfortunately Swan if I wait another 10 years I would be 60 and I don't really want to have to wait 10 years. But another thing I have thought of, which may or may not help, and what I was planning on doing anyway, was going there with a return ticket and giving myself 6 months. Six months to live there and try to find a job. I know that might not sound like a long time, especially as there are people out there who have been unemployed for a year or two. But it will give me the chance to totally immerse myself in the area, the job hunting and the lifestyle. Undoubtedly I'll make lots of new friends (because I'm nothing if not outgoing and friendly..lol), who can offer advice and suggestions to me face to face and point me in directions that I haven't thought of. At least that way, if it doesn't work out I have the option of returning to the US or even going back to Australia, where even though I don't have a job to come back to I have a place to stay.

Posted by
2678 posts

Regarding Social Security. I am a retired claims specialist from SSA. Firt, the old rules were not "work one day within a quarter", the old rules, which apply before 1978, were you had to have earned at least $50 in that calendar quarter to earn credit for that quarter. Effective 1978, it went to a quarter for each $250 covered earnings in a year, limited to 4 quarters per year. This amount has increased every year, now $1130 for a quarter. There is a program that can combine coverage for people who worked both US and foreign but not enough to qualify for either country. This url will take you to the rules for SSA and England: http://www.ssa.gov/international/Agreement_Pamphlets/uk.html lastly, if you are qualified for SSA, and you also are qualified for a pension from another country based on employment not covered by SSA, this must be reported to SSA and your SSA will hvae a reduction. Why? Your SSA benefit is calculated as if your earnings represent your lifetime earnings, and people with less earnings get a higher proportional benefit to what you paid in. The reduction is to take in to account earnings that were not covered and not considered, and thus to make the benefit more directly relate to the person's actual; lifetime earnings. The ssa-gov website has gotten much better over the years, and you should investigate all of this there.
Due to space limitations, I have over-simplified this as best as I can.

Posted by
3580 posts

My next concern would be how to fit into the UK medical system.

Posted by
964 posts

I like your idea of trying it for 6 months Linzi. The first 6 months of any major change are always the hardest, but you would get a good idea about whether you wanted to make it permanent.
If that's what you do, can I suggest you come in the Spring/Summer months? Arriving here in October as the weather declines and the daylight hours shorten could be daunting!