England and France on this budget?

Is that $5k per person, or for the two of you? Is that including or excluding air fare?

We are in the process of booking our trip towards the end of the spring and are also on a budget, unwilling to go the hostel route, but we don't need anything fancy either, clean and decent! We found our best bets for flights on us air, using their low fare finder we got our flights flying into London and home from Munich for $635.00 pp. Spending 4 nights in London found a studio apartment on housetrip.com for a total of 300.00, eurostar to Paris total 78 euros for both of us, apartment in Paris for 3 nights, $177.00, overnight train to Munich 110 euros for both, 5 nights in Munich $300.00. Try checking towards the end of March before peak season if your willing to give up the summer travel time. Look into the London Pass and also the Paris vistors pass! Hope this helps

Thanks! The 5k is for both of us including airfare. I found airfare for around $1800 for both of us. I can go up slightly to about $5,500.00 Thanks

Assuming you're going in the summer, the $1800 airfare for both is quite good. With the 5 to5.5K budget, cut out a couple of the days (D5 & D6) to make it a 9 night trip. The ferry from Portsmouth to Caen is a great way to arrive in Normandy. Renting a car can be a hassle and expensive (full insurance & fuel cost) - think about just taking a train from Caen to Bayeux where several tour companies offer guided half-day trips to the D-Day Beaches and also trips to Mont St Michel. There are direct trains from Bayeux into Paris.

By the time you pay for guided tours of Normandy area at around 100 Euro or more for the two of you, a car rental is close to the same for maybe one night and 2 days, if you can drive a stick shift. If you can only drive an automatic, then tour becomes more interesting. Where are you staying? Look at Etap and Ibis and even Hotelformule1 hotels in the areas you are interested in. They are fairly cheap and booked ahead can be really cheap. Be SURE to check a map and see where they are in relation to the train, or bus. Also, renting an apartment for 3 days might be cheaper than a hotel or B&B or even a hostel, when you consider you can cook. Also, a rented apt. has more room than the others. On the bus, you might want to look at Eurolines, which travels between countries and can be cheap. For travel within Uk, this summer, I booked a bus from Edinburgh to London for 9 Pounds each on National Express. Much cheaper than the train, but trip was longer. On D6, if you stay in an apt. in London, and take a tour out and back to Bath, then you have 5 days in London, which makes renting an apt. easier. On D7 go to Portsmouth and catch the ferry or fly to CDG from London and take train from CDG to Caen, or take the Eurostar. The Eurostar, booked early is fairly cheap and a great ride.

Your intention is noble, but to be brutually honest, it's going to be tight as a tick to pull it off for that amount with your lack of experience. Taking your high number of $5500 and subtracting air fare of $1800, leaves you $3700 for eleven nights. Looking first at internal transportation (I'm not a public transportation person, so others can whittle at my ideas, but at least here's a starting point - - all guesses are total for two people, in dollars): Airport to London - - 50 Tube day passes for four days - - 100 Train, London to Bath - - 100 Train, Bath to Portsmouth - - 100 Portsmouth to Caen ferry - - 150 Bus, Caen ferryport to Caen - - 10 Two days car rental - - 150 Gas and tolls for car - - 50 Train Normandy to Paris - - 125 Paris metro tickets - - 15 RER to Paris airport - - 25
TOTAL - - 875 Regardless of the accuracy, these represent fixed costs, so, in this case, you're down to around $2800 for eleven days, or about $250 per day. You're going to have some entry fees and miscellaneous expenses such as coffee, etc - - figure twenty-five bucks, easy, so now you're down to $225 per day. I don't know what a 'nice meal' is, but we scrimp for breakfast and lunch and eat okay, but not extravagantly, for supper, for about fifty bucks a day. I don't know if many people hit this number, so we'll call it seventy-five. You've got to eat, so there's a number in there some place. What you've got left is $150 per night for hotels. You've dismissed hostels, so I'm guessing the budget hotel chains are out the window as well. That's probably enough for guidebook-recommended hotels in Paris, probably not enough for London, certainly not for MSM.

Anyway, that's the logic. Build yourself a matrix, plug in your own realistic numbers (not guesses or hopes) and see what happens. My first cut would be Days 6 and 7 since they're rather undefined, in any case.

Well I can't help with alot of the transportation logistics or budgeting,, but I have a few tips/ideas. First,, the museums in London are free, so other then the Tower of London( which i highly recommend) you don't have a lot of entertainment costs there. In Paris many museums are free for kids under 18,, so thats a savings if son is younger|( you didn't mention his age?) When booking hotels .. book well in advance ,I find that if i am travelling in july or august I book by march /april at latest. OK,, you don't want a hostel, I can suggest two budget hotels in Paris, VERY central so you won't need to take metro much,, a carnet|( group of 10 single tickets sold at a slight discount, about 12 euros)should do you . Hotel St Pierre, budget hotel, but clean, central , has a/c.
Hotel Eugenie,, slightly nicer, but still budget, has a.c and a mini fridge which is bonus as you can stock it with soda and yogurts to feed teenage son.. soda in a cafe in Paris can be really expensive, i limited my teen son to one a day( at cafes), but picked some up for room. Can't help much with London, last place I stayed was great ( Base2stay Kensington) but it was 90 pounds for a single, but, room had a mini kitchen so did save by eating take out etc from nearby grocery stores. Suggested sites for teen,, my sons loved the Catacombs and the Invalid War Museum in Paris( as well as ET and Louvre,, if you go to Louvre do go downstairs to Medival part). Also, try a Fat Tire Bike tour, very fun, and VERY easy, yes , you can do it.

....but: The Tower of London tickets are about thirty bucks each....sixty dollars just about does in the seventy-five I guessed at for three days in London Metro tickets in Paris are around $2.50 each, buying a carnet cuts it to $1.75 or so. A carnet is ten tickets, or five rides each. $17.50 is more than my guess for you needs - - it may not even be enough depending on the weather or where you stay. I like Pat's idea of the St Pierre (never stayed there, but if it's the place just west of the Sorbonne, the location is optimal and it would shave a bit off of the notional $150 to maybe help out in London. The Eugenie (never been there either) is even handier, but pushes the budget in the wrong direction. I think the Louvre costs about fifteen bucks each and bike tours from the fat tire people run around forty each. If you do both, that's over a hundred and my estimate was only seventy-five for all three days. There's still a heck of a lot to see in Paris that's going to stiff you - - the Eiffel Tower will cost the two of you thirty-five dollars, even the cheapo maritime museum will cost the two of you twenty dollars, the sewer museum will run about fifteen dollars, the catacombs close to twenty (that's a guess, it's been too many years for that one). You're tight. It's these little things that might crimp you beyond recovery. Hopefully, the London crowd will come up with some good ideas as well (you won't like mine). What I really hope is that my transportation guesses are all wet. Hang in there.

A $5500 budget is possible for 2 people, or rather $3700 (subtracting the airfare). Just figure out where you want to economize. For example, if you travel light you can take the tube from Heathrow to central London. A single fare costs around £5. Then go to a National Rail Station and purchase a 7-day Travelcard or a one-day Travelcard each day, whichever is more convenient. (For 4 days, there is not much difference in price between the 2). The National Rail Travelcards will enable you to take advantage of the 2-for-1 offers at many London sites, including the Tower of London and the London Eye. http://www.daysoutguide.co.uk/2for1london You can buy a London-to-Bath ticket on Great Western trains for £20 each. Or you could take a National Express coach for as little as £5.50 each. Train from Bath to Portsmouth costs as little as £6 when bought in advance. (Nigel, a regular poster here, can give more info on trains). http://www.firstgreatwestern.co.uk/ http://www.nationalexpress.com/coach/index.cfm You can find a budget hotel in central London for around $130/night, less if you are willing to forgo an ensuite bathroom. Take a look at the Cherry Court Hotel (near Victoria Stn), Vandon House Hotel, (near Buckingham Palace), Morgan Guest House (also near Victoria), or the Celtic Hotel in Bloomsbury. I would recommend Priceline for your London hotels, but I don't think they can guarantee separate beds, which wouldn't work for you and your son. In Bath, take advantage of the free guided tour: http://bathguides.org.uk/ Mad Max tours are also popular. Can't advise on accommodation because I have only gone to Bath on day trips. Can't help with the Paris part of your trip because I have only been there once, and that was years ago.

I have to say this posting in dollars is making me crazy,, I think we should just convert her amount into euros GBPs and thats easier. A carnet should be more then enough for three days,,, really only 2 full days in Paris .. you can walk to many sites,, the Hotel Eugenie and the Hotel St Pierre are very close,, I walked from one to another with my luggage, when i had to switch ( at the time I booked couldn't get my full stay at one so switched to the other) From both of then you can walk to Orsay, Louvre, Notre Dame, St Chapelle,Rodin, Cluny( Medieval Museum) and if weather is decent even the Eiffel Tower. Exception would definately be Sacre Couer its a long long walk there. I do think Ed has posted some very good advice and ideas,, so its time to do your homework and decide exactly what appeals to you in terms of what you want to see and what rates you can get for your dates. Your budget is tight,, eat alot of crepes from street stands, sandwiches from bakeries, etc,, you can still eat well and save money. PS Yes Tower of London is expensive, but the included Beefeaters tour made it worth it to me.. sometimes you have to bite the bullet and spend a bit to hit some highlights..
Oh yeah,, you can save money and time at ET by taking the stairs,, I have done it with my teen son,, line was insanely long for elevators ( we were there in summer) so when we saw the much shorter stair line we did it, its not as bad as you think, and its cheaper. When we climbed to second level I did purchase a ticket there for my son to go to top,, I couldn't have been bothered as I had been before, I waited in coffee shop and just relaxed, he was only up about 20 minutes or so... he was only 14 and went on his own as elevator only goes between second and top so he couldn't "get lost"

Tower of London is £19.80, roughly $32 at today's exchange rate. But if you buy a National Rail Travelcard and use the 2-for-1 coupons as I suggested in my first post, you pay that price for both of you. Same with London Eye. It's £18.60 ($30 USD), but that's for 2 people with the 2-for-1 coupon. Ed's London transportation estimates are too high IMO. Two tube tickets get you from the airport to London for about $16, not $50. Two train tickets from Bath to Portsmouth will be around $20, not $100. London to Bath, around $65, not $100. Two National Express coach tickets from London to Bath will only be $18. All of these are estimates, of course, because we don't know what the currency conversion rate will be in the future. But for today, just multiply the pound rate by 1.6 to convert to US dollars. ( I see nothing wrong with talking in dollars. That's the OP's home currency). If you want to go to the theater, you can buy half-price tickets at Leicester Square or online at this website: http://www.officiallondontheatre.co.uk/tkts/ Don't buy the Hop On Hop Off bus tickets; they can be very expensive. Just use your Travelcard to hop a regular bus or the tube and make your own way. Also take a look at London Walks. I have done several, and they are an inexpensive way to learn more about London neighborhoods. They are only £8 each. See: http://www.walks.com/ I have been to London many many times, and at least for the London portion of your trip, I don't think your budget is super tight. You won't be traveling opulently, but there are many ways to economize, and you can certainly have an enjoyable visit in London without breaking the bank.

Don't forget to look for grocery stores near your hotel. They have a lot of good entrees and ready made sandwiches. Also, sometimes a piece of fruit and an energy bar can be an inexpensive (and healthy) lunch on the go. Use the Google map function to search London for Tesco or Waitrose or Sainsbury's once you know the neighborhood in which you'll be staying. Sometimes at the end of a day of sightseeing, I'm too tired to go to a restaurant; a visit to the grocery, then heating my dinner in the microwave in my room, then to bed is what I want. Other nights, I've got the energy left to explore and try some new London restaurants. You should do some online research and go with a list of cafes and restaurants that you want to try. If you visit their online sites beforehand, you will have some idea of the type of dishes and prices they have, so you won't be disappointed by their selection or be shocked by the price once you get inside. Check the Rick Steves guidebook for a good starting list of restaurants. Have a good trip!

I'm not a fan of the London Eye, and have said so both here and on other travel forums. I posted the price merely as an example of how the 2-for-1 coupon works, and to illustrate that sightseeing costs need not be as high as another poster indicated. I don't think that a $5500 budget is so tight that the OP has to choose between eating a sandwich and going sightseeing, be it London Eye or anything else. I've gone to London for a lot less than that, and I wasn't subsisting on fruit and energy bars, staying in hostels, or scrimping on sightseeing. I would hate for the OP or any other first-time London visitor to think that you have to have scads of money in order to stay in decent accommodations and have a nice time because that just isn't true. Check Melanie's post above for a good example of what I'm talking about. It can be done.

Thanks everyone for all of the suggestions and tips. We are planning to travel in Early April 2012 but I could push it back to October 2012.

Stacey,, important point you may not realize re your dates,, |October is actually high season for trade and fashion shows in Paris , so budget hotels or apartments are snapped up early,, and rates are generally higher, so if you do push back trip to then do not expect hotel deals unless you book VERY early ,, march april at latest.
This eases up by late October into November,, but Sept thru ,mid October is not off season for hotels in Paris.

If your son's focus is Normany, I'd spend more than 1 day there. The main museum there (can't remember the name) took us about 4 hours, and I felt like I could have spent more time there.

Hi Stacey,
I'm headed out the door, so I'll be brief. You have many good suggestions here, and I agree with many of them. I think that your trip is totally doable for $3700. London will be tough, especially eating (I usually hit a department store, pick up some take out, then eat it in my room or on a park bench). Even with it's hefty price tag, I agree with Pat on the Tower, it's a must see in my opinion. With your son's WWII interest, the cabinet war rooms shouldn't be missed, either.

Your budget is extremely tight given the traveling you will be doing between London and Paris. I suggest you create a detailed spreadsheet of every day. Start at a price for breakfast, include the sights, transportation, meals and end with the cost of where you'll be staying. I don't believe there is any other way if going a few hundred dollars or even a thousand over is a major concern. I also think you're trying to cover a lot of geography in a short period of time. You dedicate whole days to traveling when it would realistically only take a few hours. Then you don't seem to include travel time in other spots. You need to get details on how and how long your transportation legs really are. You'll have to do a lot of research but it's all available on the web. I wouldn't trust your budget and planning to the general comments (although Ed's pretty detailed) you'll get on this forum. I personally do this on all of my trips. It cuts down on times where I think "why did I book 2 nights here?" or "I need at least 3 days to see all this great stuff." This also lets me budget pretty close to what is the final cost. Normandy Beaches to Mont St Michel is a good 3 hours. There is no direct train from there to Paris. You'll have to either go back to Caen/Bayeux or somewhere out in Brittany. I'm not as familiar with train options there. You're spending a lot of time/money for what is probably a second tier sight on your visit. (Prepare for Incoming!!!) Bath is also questionable. You'll spend a good bit of money getting out there and a lot of time. You could go to Portsmouth directly for the ferry. You can see HMS Victory (Nelson's flag ship). I've not seen it or been to Portsmouth but it's a suggestion to look into. Increase your time in Normandy and maybe see the Bayeux tapestry.

Also, for food, shopping at grocery stores as suggested above can save a lot. They have sandwiches, and even pre-packaged meals that are better than you can get here, if you have a microwave available. We also eat at Brasseries and other joints. You can see the menu's posted outside and decide what you want before you go in. Do not order from the menu given you by the waiter. It will triple your bill. Also, table wine is cheaper than coke and water in France is free. Just as for tap water. You do not want still or sparkling. That can get expensive. On breakfast, stop by and buy a croissant or baguette and eat at a park. While there, buy a ham and cheese baguette for lunch. Breakfast and lunch for less than 12 dollars. Also, for lunch, special abound. Just read the menu's and if something looks interesting, go in and get it. Pizza is a staple too. Buy one and split it. Just do not get it with oeuf, unless you like semi- raw egg in the middle of the pizza.

In Britain, a Cornish pasty makes a great, filling picnic meal. Add a piece of fresh fruit and you have decent nutrition, too. In France I visit a bakery for small quiches or other fresh-baked food. To save money and have some good eating, have a meal at a Chinese deli.

Stacey, You've gotten lots of good suggestions for cutting costs on transportation, sightseeing, and food. For emphasis I'll add a few comments on some of them. And I'll suggest some alternatives for your consideration. When you get to Heathrow, buy Oyster cards and load them with some pay-as-you-go pounds to cover your ride on the Tube from the airport to London and for any trips you take beyond zone 2 while you're in London. Top up the cards as necessary. When you're ready to leave London you can get a refund on any unspent pounds plus your deposit. As others have suggested, buy paper travelcards at a National Rail station to take advantage of 2for1 offers. I suggest that you buy 7-day, zone 1-2 travelcards. It's only a guess, but I think your son would enjoy visiting either Oxford or Cambridge more than Bath. You can make either one a day trip. Take either the Oxford Tube (it's a bus) or the train to Oxford. Take the train to Cambridge. The return (roundtrip) fare for the Oxford Tube is £16. If you book in advance at www.eastcoast.co.uk, you can get single (one-way) fares as low as £4. The off-peak return fare is £21.50. The off-peak return fare for London-Cambridge is £17.50. (to be continued)

Picking up where I left off. If you book well in advance at www.megatrain.com, you can pay as little as £1.00 for a train from London to Portsmouth. Even if you rent a car when you get to Caen, I recommend that you consider taking a guided tour of the D-Day beaches rather than trying to see them on your own. You'll learn so much more that way. Overlordtour has both morning and afternoon half-day tours as well as full-day tours. In fact, you can do without a car altogether if you wish. You can take the train or a combination of train and bus from Bayeux or Caen to Mont-Saint-Michel in around two hours. You can take a combination of bus and train from there to Paris (one connection in Rennes) and the ride takes four hours. You can get a discount fare as low as €38.70 by booking in advance at www.tgv-europe.com. To keep the site in English and to avoid being bumped to the Rail Europe site which doesn't offer discount fares, choose Great Britain as your ticket retrieval country. Doing that still allows you to pick up your tickets at any SNCF station or boutique in France. To get the cheapest Eurostar tickets, book up to 120 days in advance at www.eurostar.com. As others have suggested, in Paris buy ten-ticket carnets as needed and share the tickets. Six tickets (three for each of you) from a carnet will get you from central Paris to CDG on city buses, but it's a lot faster to go by metro and RER. The current fare from anywhere in central Paris to CDG is €9.10.