Trip to Switzerland - Planning the itinerary

debmgerard, you can use the Swiss railways website to find out schedules easily enough swiss rail Just put in Lugano as departure station and Zermatt as the destination, and you'll see a variety of train options requiring connections. Looks like time is 5-6 hours.

PS there are regular (non-panoramic) trains that ride the same route as the special Glacier Express train.

You're in luck. From Lugano you will take a scenic train now matter how you go.
Go to https://www.sbb.ch/en

Now the fastest way, may be to go to Milan and turn around and go back to Switzerland. If you have a Swiss Travel Pass or Half Fare Card, it will not be valid in Italy and you will have to pay extra, plus not that scenic. There are 2 other routes that will get you to Zermatt.

To make sure you see them, in the "Via" box put in "Goeschenen". You will take a train north (which is scenic) and at Goeschenen a short train to Andermatt. From there take a train to Brig, then change to a train to Zermatt. The train from Andermatt to Brig is on the Glacier Express route. If you did happen to get the Glacier Express there, it will take you all the way to Zermatt, but you will have to pay the reservation fee.

Another route is to put "Locarno" in the "Via" box. That will show a train to Locarno, perhaps with a change along the way. At Locarno you will change to the "FART" (don't laugh), aka the Centovalli railway. "FART is an acronym, but this is a famous scenic train to Domodossola, Italy. Even though it does go into Italy, the Swiss Travel Pass and Half Fare Cards are valid. At Domodossola, it arrives at an underground station and you go upstairs to the main rail station. There you can get a train through the Simplon Tunnel to Brig, and at Brig change to the train to Zermatt. This train is actually out in the street outside the main Brig station.

What is the rest of your route looking like? 3 weeks lets you do a very thorough tour of Switzerland, so it might be worth spending a few days around Saint Moritz (Engadine region).
Otherwise, the route suggested above via Göschenen, Andermatt and Brig is already very scenic and very satisfying. Same for the Centovalli route via Domodossola, which I suspect could be faster. No need to do the full Glacier express route if you do not intend to visit the Engadine.

Just wondering where your entry and exit points are in Switzerland and which cities/activities you want to see? Perhaps you could plan your trip in such a way you do not have to be on trains so much two days in a row.

A quick look at https://www.sbb.ch/en shows the Centovalli route as the fastest at 4 3/4 hours. On both routes, you also may have the option of changing trains at Visp rather than Brig, which can be a little easier.

We're also thinking about Chur, for next fall, prior to Zermatt. The old town seems promising and (surprisingly, to me) it apparently has a nice art museum: The Graubunden Art Museum, https://www.graubuenden.ch/en/attractions/graubunden-art-museum

Please consider staying in Pontresina instead of Chur, if it fits the itinerary. It's a charming mountain town at 5,000 ft elevation, with many options for hikes and viewing the Alps. We loved our discovery of this town

Tentative Itinerary of our trip
Flying to Zurich (overnight) arrival at 08:00.

Take the train to Schaffhausen - Rhine Falls, walk around and then take the train to Appenzell.

Appenzell (2 nights)
Train to Lucerne, stopping in St. Gallen and then taking the Voralpen Express (from St. Gallen to Lucerne)
Lucerne (3 to 4 nights) still working out the details.
Gotthard Express (via Boat and Train) from Lucerne to Lugano
Lugano (3 nights)
Chur / St. Moritz via Bernina Express (1 night in Chur)???? Or skip it altogether and head straight to Zermatt
Zermatt (3 nights)
Train to Grindelwald (stopping on the way in Kandersteg and hike to Oeschinensee)
Grindelwald (4 nights)
Zurich (1 night) before flying back to the US.

Thank you for sharing!
A few comments:
- the Rhine Falls are a tad underwhelming in my opinion. I would head straight to Appenzell where you do not have much time!
- the Voralpen Express is lovely, but it makes more sense to travel from Appenzell to the Saint Moritz area (via Chur and the Albula Railway), and stay there for 3 nights (to get a chance to travel the Bernina railway)
- you could then take the Palm Express bus to Lugano, and travel to Zermatt as suggested.
- Luzern could then be visited as the final stop after Grindelwald (why Grindelwald and not Mürren or Wengen by the way?). As a bonus, unless your flight is before 9.30 AM, you can do without the last night in Zürich, because Luzern is close enough and the trains run early and reliably.

Looks like you have all the bases (scenic train rides) covered. One last item, going from Grindelwald to Zurich, make sure to take the train via Luzern. Then you will also have the Interlaken-Luzern Express covered as well. SBB will normally route you via Bern, which is faster to Zurich, but via Luzern is much more scenic, going over the Bruenig Pass.

yes! - what balso said. The Rhine Falls are OK but not worth the detour. You'll spend more time getting there than you'll want to spend at the sight. Last night in pretty Luzern makes for a 1.25 hour train ride directly to the Zurich airport. Easy.

Thanks for the help! We’ll think about skipping the Rhine Falls and go straight to Appenzell.
We are making it a day trip to Interlaken to rent ATV’s and poke around Interlaken. Then take the ferry on Lake Brienz from Interlaken to the Grand Hotel Giessbach, hiking up and have a late lunch and take in the views. Then take the ferry to Brienz and catch the train to Zurich.

The shortest route from Lugano to Zermatt takes 5h but requires four connections. I would choose the 5h 45m route that requires two transfers.

I don't know of any 2 connection journeys from Lugano to Zermatt, except by going through Milan, and that is extra money with a Swiss Travel Pass. Oh yeah, one other by taking the Godard Panorama Express to Goeshenen, connecting train to Andermatt, then 2 1/2 hour wait for the Glacier Express. 2 reservation fees to be paid for that way.
It is only 3 connections via Locarno and the shortest travel time, under 5 hours.

Another Question if I may.

Does anyone have any information of renting a bike in Appenzell and riding it to St. Gallen?

deb: For a 3-night stay in Appenzell, you would receive the Appenzell Holiday card which gives you free transportation from the airport to Appenzell, free train to St Gallen, as well as cable car to Ebenalb, + other benefits (Check to see if it is still offered). Also, free use of electric bikes for one day.
Appenzell was our first destination for 3 night in September. It was so convenient as well as cost-saving to have the Appenzell card.

Thank you Carol. What did you do in Appenzell while you were there for 3 days?

Appenzell Holiday card is still offered according this website:
https://www.appenzell.ch/en/accommodation/appenzell-holiday-card.html

I don't see anything about free transport from the airport, only your residence in Switzerland:
https://www.appenzell.ch/en/service/formulare/formulare-bestellungen/free-arrival-and-departure.html

Sam: Appenzell Card: Yep, free "arrival and departure." Before I applied for our "free round trip ticket" I thought long and hard about what that meant. I decided that our "arrival" was the Zurich Airport, so we got a free trip to Appenzell and back to the airport.

Deb, we were in Appenzell the beginning of September when the weather was sunny and a bit cool; perfect for hiking in the mountains. On our first full day in Appenzell, we rode the train to Wasserauen, then cable car up to Ebenalb (all free) and hiked the loop from the cable car, down through the cave, lunch at Aescher-Gasthaus am Berg, and continued on the trail until we reached the cable car station.
On our second full day we rode the train to Jakobsbad and then cable car to Kronberg (all free) where there were trails at the top. Unfortunately we couldn't linger at the top because we wanted to be back in Appenzell for the Cow Parade (cows and goats were being brought down from the mountains). Also at Jakobsbad, we could have done the luge (free with Appenzell card), but since we're Seniors, we passed on that.
We also spent time walking around Appenzell, following the path that wanders through town. It really is a small town; not much to see and do in town, but a lot of options in the areas surrounding the city.
We did not go to St. Gallen because it was on the itinerary of the Tour we were on a few days later. From St. Gallen, our tour group rode the train to Chur. I couldn't find much about Chur in the 3 Switzerland guidebooks I have, but I wished I had a couple of hours to wander around the town.

Lucky you going to Grandhotel Giessbach for a hike to the waterfall and lunch. I have always wanted to do that, but have not been able to make room in our itinerary.

I don’t see where this fits into yours? Is it the day you leave Grindelwald and head to Zurich for your flight home?

As for Oeschinensee—-I wouldn’t spend the time hiking up the road to get there—-not all that rewarding compared to hiking at the lake. I suggest you ride the gondola up and then do the hike to Oberbargli via Heuberg:

https://www.komoot.de/tour/365576427

And be sure to see the sculpture path along the lake (you can return this way). The Berghotel Oeschinensee has a nice deck for lunch (we usually stay at this hotel 1-2 nights and have dinner there). This is the larger of the two lakeside hotels. I see the Wandfluh family has now purchased the smaller one adjacent, so you should be able to get a nice lunch in the Stubli there as well.

https://www.oeschinensee.ch/en/essen-und-trinken/

I was going to suggest our favorite hike up to the Fruendenhutte on ledges, but it appears the trail has had problems (rockfall) and is not in use until it is repaired. But the loop hike to Oberbargli is also very scenic.

You can store your luggage in lockers at the Kandersteg train station.

Thank you everyone. After reading all the replies and having the time to do so since our trip isn't until Sept 2022, we're thinking we'll go to Lugano/Lake Como after Apenzell and save our days in Lucerne for the end of our trip since we are flying out of Zurich.

I'm sure we'll have plenty of questions as we continue to plan our vacation to Switzerland!

Thanks!
Deb

Hello, it's me again. Now that the holidays are behind us, I'm back to planning our trip and I'm struggling with the first 5 days of our trip. We arrive in Zurich. We will have a SWISS Travel Pass. We'd love to do the Berninia Express and the Glacier Express to Zermatt. But where's the best place to spend the first 5 days? Chur ? St. Moritz? Lugano? A combination? What we don't want is to jump from hotel to hotel every night. We'd like a minimum of 2 nights at any given place. We're outdoors people and low to moderate hikes are good. Long train rides between destinations are also fine (time to relax and enjoy the scenery). Helpful suggestions for an itinerary?

Day 1 - 5 ????

Day 6 - 9 - Zermatt
Day 9 - 13 - Grindelwald
Day 13 - 17 Lucerne
Fly Home to the US.

Your last post is confusing. You were originally going to the Appenzell region. What happened to that plan?

I would suggest something close to your original plan. Fly into Zurich and head to St. Gallen. The reason I suggest St. Gallen, it is a very good train hub and plenty of nice hotels near the train. Spend your first day in St Gallen after your flight, it is a nice town. From St Gallen you can day trip to Appenzell or Aescher or Rheinfalls and Stein am Rhein very easily and short train trips. Then head to Chur for a day and one night and catch the express to Zermatt.

You can use up 5 days easily.

Hi Threadwear,

Yep, thankfully we have time to make changes before we settle on one. One main reason for the change is we decided we didn't want to spend the first 5 days of our trip at 3 different Hotels. Also, we thought Pontresina was more interesting than Appenzell? Could be totally off base with that assumption. Which is why we were asking for help as I assumed this was the place to do that?

I suggest you head straight to Pontresina or a nearby smaller village for your first 4-5 nights. This will give you lots of great hiking opportunities, and set you up for a daytrip on the Bernina Express (or a regional train in one or both directions) to Tirano and back. You can stop along the way at one of the mountain inns where the train stops for a hike or for lunch (I can provide suggestions for that later if you are interested). A stay of 2 nights or longer in any of the Pontresina area hotels will give you a pass for free transport on the lifts and trains in the immediate area, so you won’t need to use up days on your Swiss Pass if it is the Flex type.

I am suggesting Pontresina over St. Moritz as it has more charm and more reasonably-priced hotels than glitzy St. Moritz. Or the nearby village of Samedan, especially if you want an apartment. We stayed in the apartment at Laagers Garni, which is actually a wonderful bakery with a few rooms and one apartment upstairs:

https://www.laagers.ch/hotel-garni/

Had we chosen to stay in Pontresina, it would have been at Chesa Mulin:

https://www.chesa-mulin.ch/en/

For the Bernina Espress you will need to start in Pontresina or St. Moritz; for the Glacier Express to Zermatt you can board at Samedan or St. Moritz. Here is a map of the whole Swiss rail system to make sense of this:

https://cdn-doc.myswissalps.com/docs/default-source/rail-network-maps/swisstravelpass.pdf?sfvrsn=7788603a_56

And the current timetables for the Bernina Express and Glacier Express, so you can see the stops:

https://www.glacierexpress.ch/en/travel-planning/timetables/

https://www.rhb.ch/en/panoramic-trains/bernina-express#info